 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Dave Horsley,
Excellent 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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brian
brian
Guest
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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brian, they should hve just replaced the chairlifts with better and more accessible ones - so stupid to spend all that money and then rip peeps off like that. I would have done just what you suggest, but then I don't approve of walking where there are skilifts!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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easiski,
We walked up, four of us with blades and two with skis, most wore trainers and carried their boots, I needed the space for a couple of bottles of beer so I walked up in my ski boots (CRispi CXT nordic touring boots so no worse than walking boots). If we'd waited half an hour we'd probably have been able to cadge a lift up in a lorry going to the top.
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Although I have heard it said that it's not legally enforceable so you could just wander out and stick 2 fingers up. In Dave's case, the skis might have been a bit of a giveaway however
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They won't let you on the funicular in summer carrying skiing kit, and a large enough rucksac to hide blades in might also not be allowed. In winter your supossed to stay in the ski area, though its not inforced, but they won't allow you up the funicular carrying winter equipment such as iceaxe and crampons, so if your going touring and are carrying an iceaxe and crampons you have to make sure there not visible.
Legally its not inforcable, but its on the terms and conditions of carraige so if you went up on the funicular and headed out and were caught coming back in you'd be walking down.
CML have already changed the VMP once. Initially no one was allowed in or out when the closed system was in operation. Now walkers can sign in and use the facilities and then sign back out. CML are trying to change to VMP again so that they can sell one way, down only tickets ie walk up by one of the many routes up and then take the train back down. Hopefully there will be a steady drip drip of changes that loosen up the rules particularly if they show with the environmental monitoring that the changes aren't damaging the European protected sites.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Bet you're looking forward to your July turns now
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That's what Helen (H11LLY) said as we were walking back. Might make it over this weekend if the weather is good as I had planned to attempt to rollerski up from Glenmore as practise for a race in Spetember, but failed to get round to it as it was tipping it down and I had to get back to the skishop to pick up my new tele skis wich I dropped off that morning to have 7TMs fitted (unfortunately no powers left so just went for the old all mountain).
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Or perhaps mountian bikers would be forced to ride UP the mountain instead of using the lifts. it would kill our summer business stone dead. Is it any wonder Cairngorm are in such trouble? Bob - I'm surprised at you!!!!
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Mounatin bikes - mountain bikes aren't allowed even if you rode them up the home road. Though again legally under the new right to roam regs CML can't legally stop you.
Not Bobs fault, blame the environmentalists and planners. Funicular with VMP or no funicular. One big advantage of the funicular over the old chair is that it can run at much higher windspeeds. We would have lost a lot more skiing days over the last few years without the funicular for just that reason.
Daft that they can't carry mountain bikes up and use the traverse - 105 - zig zags and home road as a downhill track - sure it would do very little damage as it is basically a road.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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In short (well relative to the Visitor Management Plan which extends to some 40pages plus appendixes):
Outwith the Officially defined Ski Season (unless there is sufficient snow for Surface Uplift Operation) the funicular is required to operate as a 'Closed System'; IE the funicular may not be used to access the mountain, except to staff/members of the following organisations: CML, Mountain Rescue, Police/Emergency services, SAIS and Moray Firth Radio. It may also be operated as a closed system during the defined ski season should there be insufficient snow, and the snow cover be deemed to be so sparse as to not offer any protection from ground damage. In plain English, snow cover on the ground matters more than the officially defined ski season, but incidentally the Ski Season is defined by the VMP/Section 50 agreement as been 23rd December to 30th April. Whereas in 2006 the ski tows opened in November and closed on 7th May.
The System is 'Closed' from the inside only. This means that on Saturday we were not permitted to use the Funicular for uplift, but on reaching the top station were permitted to enter and use the facilities within the Ptarmigan (with the exception of the funicular). However at present if you enter the building from the mountain you must exit the building and make your own way off the mountain, you may not download on the funicular, BUT that is currently under review and a consultation is underway to lift this restriction. If the VMP is changed in this regard, then it will still NOT be possible to use the train to get up the mountain when the closed system is in operation, but it will be possible to come off the mountain, enter the Ptarmigan and buy a one way funicular ticket to go down. All Clear so far? 
The VMP is required to implement a Section 50 agreement between CML, the Highland Council and SNH. Section 50 is an obscure clause in Scottish planning law, and section 50 agreements are legally binding planning restrictions and can only be altered by the consent of all signatories; they have no direct equivalent elsewhere in the UK.
At first the VMP enforced a completely closed system at the Ptarmigan, you could not enter from the Mountain when the closed system was in force. The absurdity of this situation, and concerns that it was a safety issue given decades of open access to the old Ptarmigan lead to common sense prevailing and the Section 50 agreement being amended to allow walkers and climbers to enter the building.
IN TERMS OF WINTER USEAGE AND SNOWSPORTS:
Contrary to popular belief there is no requirement for those with snowsports tickets to remain within the Ski Patrol/Ski Area boundary (not necessarily the same thing). A condition of EU funding for the funicular is that it has no adverse effect on EU designated conservation areas which border the Ski Area, thus the Funicular may not be used to access the Plateau or the Northern Corries west of Coire Cas. However it is acceptable within the terms of the VMP to use the funicular to ski in say Coire Loagh Mor, or the Aonach Ridge to return to the Ciste Carpark, both which are recognised (and partly fenced) ski runs but out with the patrolled area.
The issue is further confused by the fact that a Section 50 agreement CAN NOT BE RETROSPECTIVE. Thus neither can the VMP which implements it. So the restrictions on accessing the Plateau or Sneachda do not apply to other lifts, thus it is ok under the VMP to take the funicular up, then use the Ptarmigan Tow and go off touring over the Plateau! In effect the VMP has very little actual impact on skiers, it is however a condition of lift tickets “that all activites be undertaken with regard to the EU sites”, so skiers and boarders are expected to take into account snow conditions etc before venturing into the protected areas.
The people that have lost out most are winter climbers who used to make use of the chairs in the dead of winter to allow them to make the most of short day light hours when venturing over the back of the 'Gorm, and summer sightseers and birdwatchers. Prior to the VMP the RSPB was in effect one of CML's largest summer customers, using the Chair for access to the high reaches of the Loch A'an sector of the Abernethy Reserve with guided walks etc.
The next logical step would seem to be to allow a completely open system in winter. The present set-up creates a farcical situation where the effective result is; you can use the funicular to gain access to the mountain in winter on foot so long as you are not suitably equipped to be on the mountain in winter.
The section 50 agreement requires CML to limit access to the mountain by enforcing exponentially increasing parking charges in the Cas Carpark to non-funicular users, while creating a clearway on the Ski Road and closing the Ciste Carpark and Sugar Bowl Carparks outwith the winter season. So far these have been held as 'reserve' powers under the VMP, and will continue to remain un-implemented so long as monitoring work shows the VMP/Section 50 agreement is meeting it's objectives.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Dave Horsley wrote: |
| Mounatin bikes - mountain bikes aren't allowed even if you rode them up the home road. Though again legally under the new right to roam regs CML can't legally stop you. |
Yep. I reckon that's the principle reasoning behind all of the new stone drainage channels!!
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Winterhighland, Clear as mud! thanks for the clarification, but I still find it hard to believe that any company would agree to such clearly trade restictive conditions. I had not realised that things were quite so bad. No mountain bikes eh? Might be a blessing, but i used to bike all around the area when I lived there (not up Cairngorm actually, but all around the area in between Aviemore and CAringorm and off the either side), and never had any problem with it. Is it just Cairngorm or has this spread too? I'm rethingking my plans to retire there! 
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You know it makes sense.
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The Bike thing on CairnGorm was really down to HIE as the landowners. The Land Reform Act though put an end to "no mountain bikes beyond this point". That said the steeper pitches of the hill-road would be hellish to climb on a bike because the surface is so loose, and the drainage channels would mean 'game over' if you messed up at any speed on the way down!
With regards to why a company would agree to the restrictions on trade - SNH would have formally objected to the funicular development, but for the closed system, so it was basically a take it or leave it situation for CML. In the lead up to building the funicular, the conclusion was reached that there were only two genuine options, build a funicular or do nothing. In terms of raw stats the funicular has been a significant gain to snowsports, some stats from Mid Feb 2004:
Days since start of season: 53 days
Operational days Funicular: Open 46 days (Lost 7 days)
White Lady Chairlift - Operational Conditions: Open 20 days (Lost 33 days)
In under 2months the funicular meant an extra 26days of operation for snowsports. or look at it another way - the funicular reduced days lost to adverse weather by 80%!
Such stats can't tell the whole story, and if the White Lady Chairlift was carrying pasangers up the Gorm today in it's 45th Year there may still be 17 functioning ski lifts on that mountain. On the other hand there might zero, we will just never know.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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section 50 agreements are legally binding planning restrictions and can only be altered by the consent of all signatories; they have no direct equivalent elsewhere in the UK.
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Their equvalent under planning law in Engalnd and Wales are Section 106 agreements. They can cover a huge range of issues. in the National Parks we use them most frequently to restrict the occupancy of new dwellings.
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Poster: A snowHead
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All this is absolutely fascinating - really. Seriously. the whole point of the funicular as I remember it was the idea that it could operate in much higher winds, but I wonder whether, in retrospect, more careful siting and replacing the existing lifts might not have produced just as much saving and less restrictions.
I have a pic I took on the summit years ago on my wall - fog coming up in all directions and just the weather station and the top stones showing above - very dramatic, but it seems a shame that peeps who aren't prepared to walk all the way up (me for one) won't be allowed to go out and walk just that last bit, or across the Ptarmigan a bit and look around. Or even pic-nic - is pic-nicing sacriligeous? Probably. Keep the info coming though - I for one love to hear all about it.
Met a Glasgow family yesterday who were astonished to hear about your walk up to the top and ski adventures - delighted too! 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Dave Horsley, Pity there's not a long shot to see how big the patch is. Iain Finlayson always used to tell me that all year he could find a patch of snow big enough to practise his short swings on...
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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easiski,
There was a long shot from a week ago at:
http://www.highland-instinct.co.uk/cairngorm/winter200506/jun06/24/005_l.jpg
It looks a bit odd as there is a large square patch to the right that is of a consistant gradient and about the size of Alford dry ski slope (if you know it). Thats where we built the kicker. The bid in the middle is not as long but ends in a much steeper slope of about 5-10m which is basically the thickness of snow. Then along the left is a longer fairly flat crescent of snow.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Dave Horsley, thanks - sorry 
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FAQ
and the freshly built snowpark saw heavy use untill a large crevasse opened up in the landing area 
