 Poster: A snowHead
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Not pretty reading some of the behaviour beggars belief : jumping from a cornice to be filmed FFS
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| Not pretty reading some of the behaviour beggars belief : jumping from a cornice to be filmed FFS |
I hope the film was worth it !
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Tristero wrote: |
All I can say is I had very nice runs outbounds at level 2. Not anywhere near a lift, of course, and not from top to bottom. One can't have it all. |
Yes.
I've skied powder on risk 1 days. I looked back over my recent ski tours and it is probably 50/50 between risk 2 and risk 3 days with about half the risk 2 days in powder snow. But risk 2 is a global risk for the mountain range, globally the risk is moderate, locally the risk may be high - say a little north facing, cold gulley with a terrain trap. On a risk 3 day I would be unlikely to ski the big, high altitude, north facing valleys in the Belledonne opposite the house and 3+ days I'd find something else to do.
If you thnk about it, 1 meter of fresh snow on grass, like you get at the start of the season, is not going anywhere, it is just powder all the way down. Perfectly safe to ski. Or where the whole snowpack transformed completely into depth hoar after a long anticyclone. Again it is not going anywhere but is very pleasant "powder" snow that you can find weeks after the last falls. Janvril powder is also relatively save to ski as by then the base is pretty rock solid due to a freeze/thaw cycle.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| davidof wrote: |
| I wonder why the tractor driver was ploughing the road... was he told to do it? You'd think a local would know better. |
I thought the same thing, but honestly don't know. I guess he wanted to clear the access for something, but I don't know what.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I dont think ski resorts/destinations make it easy for Joe public from the flatlands to access avalanche forecasts/info. It took me a while to work out how to access the avalanche forecast for the area I visited in France earlier this year. The rest of the party I travelled with had absolutely no idea.
I think this information could be more prominent and easily accessible. That might help educate those who need educating, or at least highlight a risk to them they'd not previously been aware of.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@milzibkit, It is worth knowing that over the past couple of years, the avalanche reporting system across the Alps has started to get a bit more joined up, and the reports are much easier to find than they were. If you go to https://avalanche.report/ , a pretty memorable URL which is a good start, the map is initially centred on Tirol (who have used this system for a while), but you can now scroll around and select another region, e.g. in Switzerland or France, and you should be taken to the local reporting service for that area.
I agree with you though – people don't know what they don't know, so raising awareness is crucial.
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Obviously not many make snow profiles and tests when going out. Sure it takes some time, but even if you need to dig 2m deep pit, it's like 10 or 15min time (most of time even less) to get test done and you at least somehow know where you stand. With those profiles from each of accident, and then especially with photos of terrain, it really makes you wonder, what the hell are people thinking. Most of ECT were around 11, which is so low, that most of time you don't even need to make test and you already know you are on very very shi**ty ground. And in such conditions you go to those big faces with plenty of terrain traps under them. It really makes you wonder if people think at all or they really just go without even knowing something might happen.
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Thank you. Amazing detail from their authority.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Snow&skifan wrote: |
Thank you. Amazing detail from their authority. |
Agree. Sobering reading but great insights. Thanks for sharing @Scarlet
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Thanks for sharing!
Interestingly, it seems like the guys at Törl got a personal call from god to turn around. I'd really like to know if the guide was with clients or just friends. Anything about that yet?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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The report of the Törli avalanche is different to the local reporting at the time of the incident. This report seems to suggest only 1 fatality, while the earlier reports stated that the guide and 1 of the 2 clients were buried and died. Don’t know which is correct.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| primoz wrote: |
Obviously not many make snow profiles and tests when going out. Sure it takes some time, but even if you need to dig 2m deep pit, it's like 10 or 15min time (most of time even less) to get test done and you at least somehow know where you stand. With those profiles from each of accident, and then especially with photos of terrain, it really makes you wonder, what the hell are people thinking. Most of ECT were around 11, which is so low, that most of time you don't even need to make test and you already know you are on very very shi**ty ground. And in such conditions you go to those big faces with plenty of terrain traps under them. It really makes you wonder if people think at all or they really just go without even knowing something might happen. |
I have dug a few snow profiles in my time and I think they are excellent for educational purposes.
When it comes to risk assessment however I think it can be a different matter. On a decent off piste descent there can be a number of different pitches with different angles, different snow loading, different aspects etc. I would say therefore a snow profile will give an indication of the particular pitch that you are about to ski, but may not be relevant to the whole descent.
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| ulmerhutte wrote: |
| The report of the Törli avalanche is different to the local reporting at the time of the incident. This report seems to suggest only 1 fatality, while the earlier reports stated that the guide and 1 of the 2 clients were buried and died. Don’t know which is correct. |
I noticed that too.
Using their little red circles and narrative, to me it seems like the guide and one client were killed.
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You know it makes sense.
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| milzibkit wrote: |
| ... more prominent and easily accessible [avalanche warnings] ... might help educate those who need educating, or at least highlight a risk to them they'd not previously been aware of. |
Perhaps, but...
Most of my experience is with helicopter and cat skiing guests. There, the avalanche risk is posted every day along with the weather. Guides regularly take snow profiles, and every guest will have been given a description of the predominant issues from that, and they'll all be able to witness pit-digging.
Even with all that information ... type-A inexperienced people regularly demand to be taken on dangerous terrain.
In that specific case it's probably their money which makes them think they are somehow not subject to the same dangers as everyone else, like Johnson with his parties. But my point is more basic than that: people absolutely know it's dangerous. Like my friends who died from tobacco related cancers, they know the risk, the issue is that they don't deal with it well. I don't think you'll ever stop people failing like that.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| ulmerhutte wrote: |
| The report of the Törli avalanche is different to the local reporting at the time of the incident. This report seems to suggest only 1 fatality, while the earlier reports stated that the guide and 1 of the 2 clients were buried and died. Don’t know which is correct. |
I think this can be clarified with the German language version of the report – it looks like a minor translation error. https://lawinen.report/blog/lawinenwarndienst.blogspot.com/1705110015116295674
“Die vermissten Personen konnten dann mittels LVS-Gerät geortet...” The English has “person”, where the German uses the plural – one skied out and raised the alarm, the other two were buried.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Scarlet, thanks. Makes sense. It would have been strange for an official report to be wrong.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| richjp wrote: |
I have dug a few snow profiles in my time and I think they are excellent for educational purposes.
When it comes to risk assessment however I think it can be a different matter. On a decent off piste descent there can be a number of different pitches with different angles, different snow loading, different aspects etc. I would say therefore a snow profile will give an indication of the particular pitch that you are about to ski, but may not be relevant to the whole descent. |
I guess it's clear to everyone that snow profile and snowpack tests are relevant only to that particular spot, but even then you normally get at least some idea, especially if you repeat it few time through ascent on different places... or it tell you to turn back when you see it's ECT4. Without this, I really have no idea how anyone could evaluate how stable snow pack is and what's under first few milimeters that you can see with your eye. Well based on these reports, people don't, they just ski and whatever happens it happens.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| davidof wrote: |
| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| Not pretty reading some of the behaviour beggars belief : jumping from a cornice to be filmed FFS |
I hope the film was worth it ! |
Not that it changes a huge amount re. the decision making, but the original German talks of a "leicht überwechteten Geländekante" (lightly corniced 'terrain edge', probably a small ridge line or wind lip) which is slightly less sensationalist than the EN translation version...
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@ed48, I don’t, but I doubt there’s any actual information in there, just opinions and conjecture. Facts are free, not behind a paywall.
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