 Poster: A snowHead
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I was told that an instructor with several decades of experience wasn't "rated" to teach Gold Star classes. I'm under the impression that this status shouldn't be possible today, that an instructor either achieves full certification within four years or else has to start over. Perhaps the system was different in the past and some instructors were grandfathered under the old regime?
That got me thinking, what are the different limited qualifications that stagiaires go through in the current training programs? Is it by piste rating, i.e., limited to snow gardens, blues, reds? Or by class level, i.e., limited to Piou-piou, Flocon, 2*? Can anyone shed some light on the system?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I don't know the French system very well, but there does exist a 'Club Instructor' licence which is s much lower level than the full "national" instructor qualification.
This is not the same as a Stagiere, but address often found with groups from other parts of the country or working for organisations like UCPA or Club Med.
In general, not only in France, what lessons any given trainee is given will depend on what the ski school thinks they're good enough for, rather than any formal grading. Some exceptions, like off piste teaching in Switzerland which is regulated by law to full licence holders only.
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Sun 5-02-23 15:07; edited 1 time in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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It's all too easy to be blinded by fancy jackets and shiny coaching badges
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Go to any French resort in the French February holidays and see the Grandfathers out 'teaching' using their "Grandfathered rights'!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Chaletbeauroc wrote: |
I don't know the French system very well, but there does exist a 'Club Instructor' licence which is s much lower level than the full "national" instructor qualification.
This is not the same as a Stagiere, but address often found with groups from other parts of the country or working for organisations like UCPA or Club Med.
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The ski club license is given by the FFS and is the equivalent of Snowsports GB. Grosso Modo. However it is not a professional qualification and addresses training within club groups. FFS instructors are not allowed to teach outside of their club and certainly not allowed to be paid for it. That includes the UCPA and Club Med. What happens on the ground may be different, of course but those are the rules.
Unlike the pro qualifications there are three levels and the FFS, logically, also recognizes different disciplines: ski, snowboard, telemark etc. as different pathways. Level 1 would be similar to a BASI L1, Snowsports UK L1 etc. You find all kinds on this level from very, very good skiers to people who just want to help out their local club and maybe have quite a few technical faults and they will never progress further. At this level you'd typically look after kids and not do too much instruction. L2 is another 6 days, again you can find very good skiers at this level but the standard is below that of a BASI L2 and again, it is a club instruction aimed at coaching and organising club activities. Most French ski clubs also rely on professional instructors.
What is slightly odd is that the FFS - which is the delegated federation of the Sports Ministry for all but snowshoeing and ski touring - has a much more logical approach to ski instruction compared to the ENSA with its single level qualification. The ENSA is also part of the Sports Ministry.
As for the original poster, I don't know the answer but a cross country ski instructor can teach alpine for a limited period - say to cover during school holidays.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@Evasion, Gold Star and next up Competition Level involve race training and then a timed slalom . They can only be taught by an instructor who can still compete at a certain level/time. This is why it’s always taught by the youngsters who still compete at the ESF instructors champs .
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There are some older instructors that have a limited degree in the French system and can teach (for children) up to 3rd star esf level. These are generally at least +40/45 years old.
''that an instructor either achieves full certification within four years or else has to start over''
You don't have to do that in the current French system.
1. Achieve test technique (timed slalom), valid 3 years
2. Achieve Cycle préparatoire/ préformation, valid 3 years from 1/11 after the season where you succeeded it
Stagiaire
Able to teach Classe débutant, Classe 1 and Classe 2 as defined by Mémento (look up the website, with videos of the different levels/movements/turns)
3. Achieve Eurotest
If you do it within the 4 years of the validity of the Cycle préparatoire, you continue to teach. If you take longer than that time, you don't teach continuously.
4. Achieve CYCLE 1
4 weeks, for level 3 and level 4 skiing (the highest levels in the French system)
This part of the curriculum is changeing next year, be split up, and incorporate the banked slalom that up untill now comes in CYCLE 2.
You become an ''aspirant'' and get less ''retenue'' and discounts on liftpasses everywhere.
5. Achieve CYCLE 2
now: slalom for demonstration purposes around short piquets; snowboard, banked slalom (Time limit)
6. Offpiste / ski tour week
+ Finals 1 week
This is of the top of my head, i havent gone beyond step 2 for the moment 
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Sun 5-02-23 16:35; edited 1 time in total
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The limited degree doesn't exist anymore, but the instructors that obtained it, still continue to benefit from it.
Same for cross country skiing. Some old instructors (I'm thinking of someone 65/70years old who went to the Olympics somewhere in Japan a long time ago in cross country skiing) obtained a degree as a cross country instructor that allows them - as @davidof, mentioned - to teach alpine skiing up to a certain level. It's not possible today to take this road to get teaching in France.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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''is it by piste rating, i.e., limited to snow gardens, blues, reds? Or by class level, i.e., limited to Piou-piou, Flocon, 2*?''
The stagiaires only having completed the cycle préparatoire can not take their pupils on a red or black slope.
Pioupiou / flocon / 2* are esf groups.
The ENSA divides the levels up differently.
Classe débutant
1
2
3
4
As above, their website Mementoski.com, shows each level very clearly.
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@JulieAimeLeSki thank you very much, that's exactly the information I was looking for. The instructor I'm referring to is in her late 50's and focuses on teaching ESF 1*-3*, perfectly consistent with your first sentence.
Eyeballing the mémento website (thanks for that reference as well, it's much more detailed than ESF's videos), ENSA Classe débutant is consistent with ESF Ourson and Flocon which, I believe, are usually taught in the garden or on green pistes. Classe 1 looks consistent with ESF 1* and 2*, which usually stay on green and blue pistes. I'm curious if any stagiaires having completed only the cycle préparatoire would actually be assigned groups corresponding to ENSA Classe 2 if they couldn't go beyond blue pistes.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Isn't there also a "monitrice enfants" category?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@rjs, I think that's kind of what I mean by the limited degree, up to third star level, that existed in the past and some people still benefit from it. I completely forgot the name of the object though
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@Evasion,
Thank you for the kind reply.
''I'm curious if any stagiaires having completed only the cycle préparatoire would actually be assigned groups corresponding to ENSA Classe 2 if they couldn't go beyond blue pistes.''
Yes. Happens.
The Classe 2 thing is weird though because:
In the cycle préparatoire almost stagiaires learn the pedagogy + démonstrations for classe débutant and classe 1. They only learn the demonstrations for classe 2 (mainly godille de base, virage de base).
The pedagogical part of Classe 2 is treated in the beginning of the Cycle 1.
So stagiaires having the cycle préparatoire are allowed to teach Classe 2, but the pedagogical part of classe 2 is not part of the cycle préparatoire.
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You know it makes sense.
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