Piste Cross Code
One point in particular drew my attention. The one regarding where to stop on the piste. Over the years I've noticed that a good number of ski instructors tend to be stopped in the middle of the piste when chatting to/coaching their students, rather than to the side. A few years back when my daughter was having a lesson, I asked the instructor about it. His reply was that stopping in the middle of the piste in a spot where you are clearly visible to all and sundry (i.e. a wide section and not just over a crest) was safer than stopping at the edge, because often people trying to pass slower skiers go to the edge of the piste to do so, and those faster skiers themselves aren't necessarily any good.
What do fellow snowheads think of this?
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
stop at the side and in clear view of others ( preferably on the sunny side of the piste if possible )
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Don't be a dick and stop in the middle. Arrogant ski instructors are one of the worst forces in a world where people don't learn the code or bother following it, trusting in some sort of entropic ski magic to keep them safe on most pistes.
When I rule the world (part 374.6) if a ski instructor or his class sets off blind into traffic you have a free shot at taking them out.
Interestingly in the US with zero fanfare or publicity they seem to have revised the skier's code this year. Perhaps the biggest change is that they've removed the confusing wording about the "ahead" skier having right of way reverting to the old downhill. Perhaps because as can be seen on any debate over the rules Seppos seem to have all sorts of fanciful ways of deciding what "ahead" meant regerring to individuals' momentary direction of travel among other things.
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Tue 17-01-23 15:32; edited 1 time in total
Don't be a dick and stop in the middle. Arrogant ski instructors are one of the worst forces in a world where people don't learn the code or bother following it
Had a ski instructor like this growing up. He stopped in stupid exposed positions that were often choke points or poorly sighted positions. His opinion was that since it was the person skiing down the slopes responsibility to 'see and avoid', he could stop anywhere he pleased. Didn't ski for him for much longer after that.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
You might be visible to all but that doesn't mean you're safe from idiots who like to fly down the blues at the speed of light. In my (albeit limited) experience, those trying to overtake slower skiers will go wherever they can, including passing you with a gnats whisker to spare.
On our first ski trip I was merrily pootling down a flat-ish section of a blue run. It was a huge, wide run and not particularly busy. I was probably about 1/3 of the way over on the width, so plenty of room for overtaking on both sides. I saw this shadow looming up from behind and had enough time to think 'uh-oh' before something very heavy slammed into the back of me and I was sent flying. I dropped a pole on impact and when I got up from where I landed, it was some 15 feet back. I'd been hit by a guy who was over 6'0 who was skiing faster than his ability. He and his friends were very apologetic as they helped me up and retrieved my pole. For context, I'm 5'0 and about 50kg. I'm glad I had a rucksack on that day as it cushioned the blow. Son1s lunch baguette was a bit squashed though.
I will always stop at the edge so that I'm out of the way of the majority, including those who aren't following the Piste X Code in other ways.
This last trip, I saw so many scary examples of people not paying attention. I'd regularly wait on the crest of a hill alongside other skiers as I could see a ski school snaking down the hill in front of me. Given the icy conditions, I wanted to let them get well ahead before continuing. The amount of people that would fly down, go past us, and go down without knowing what was ahead was terrifying. You'd then inevitably see them realise and need to take evasive action.
After all it is free
After all it is free
Always at the side, and preferably before any drop off. If after a drop off then sufficiently far enough down to be in clear view.
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greengriff wrote:
Dave of the Marmottes wrote:
... you have a free shot at taking them out.
I presume you're referring specifically to the instructor rather than the obedient line of 5 year old kids following him/her?
Nah kids too . If we are to raise standards need to start early. Not very hard for an instructor to say " if I see you set off again without looking you are out of the class" is it?
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Owlette wrote:
This last trip, I saw so many scary examples of people not paying attention...
I'm not sure whether they aren't paying attention, or are just not able to control themselves properly, but I wholeheartedly agree with your overall gist. An axiom that's served me well over the years is 'no matter how dumb or unpredicable a move you can imagine for the skier in front of you to do, he/she can do worse!' Bearing that in mind, if I think I need 10 feet to one side of a skier to pass them safely, I allow 20.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Dave of the Marmottes wrote:
Nah kids too .
That's one way to keep the crowds down!
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
greengriff wrote:
Owlette wrote:
This last trip, I saw so many scary examples of people not paying attention...
I'm not sure whether they aren't paying attention, or are just not able to control themselves properly, but I wholeheartedly agree with your overall gist. An axiom that's served me well over the years is 'no matter how dumb or unpredicable a move you can imagine for the skier in front of you to do, he/she can do worse!' Bearing that in mind, if I think I need 10 feet to one side of a skier to pass them safely, I allow 20.
To be fair, I did once fall over whilst stood still on a completely flat part of a run. Just sort of tipped sideways. Mr. O and our instuctor were killing themselves laughing as they came to help me up. So your axiom is an excellent one. And I approve of your 20 feet rule. I wish others would do the same.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Owlette wrote:
To be fair, I did once fall over whilst stood still on a completely flat part of a run. Just sort of tipped sideways.
I'm pretty sure that all the honest people among us will admit to doing something similar!
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Last year skiing a narrow relatively steep cat-track with 4 kids in tow, we had slowed right down as there was a small kid with an instructor ahead of us. The last of my kids was overtaken by a middle-aged Brit causing that kid to have to slam on the brakes and the kid in front of him to comment that he no way would the guy have been able to avoid skiing into him if he had to slow/down or stop. Typical argument with lower intermediate level skier that he had the right to pass, we were holding him up, he was perfectly safe and knew what he was doing. My kids are all advanced skiers and the two at the back are racers, they were very clear that this guy had created a dangerous situation and clearly did not have the skills and control to do what he was attempting. And of course he had no idea that there was a small kid struggling on the track below us, who it would have been completely unacceptable to pass or even get close to. It is bad attitude, lack of awareness, and over-estimation of ability that causes most dangerous situations in my experience (like this one).
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@zikomo, thousands of times per day. People are generally thinking exclusively about themselves and their group and don't give a toss about anyone else. So if you want to stay safe on groomers you have to be thinking for all of them.
I find cattracks particularly hard - I've no desire to get backed up so I'm first target for your idiot but then that means having to do a skill based pass closer than I would otherwise like. Never a good idea for people to ski cattracks side by side for that reason i.e. they invite the riskier pass as a result.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Quote:
I presume you're referring specifically to the instructor rather than the obedient line of 5 year old kids following him/her?
My nephew, aged about 8, took out an ESF instructor who was standing in front of his class. Only pride was hurt and the obedient 5 year olds all thought it was massively funny. My sister, who had watched with dismay from further up the hill as her idiot boy skied so badly, just carried on and ignored them all.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
pam w wrote:
My sister, who had watched with dismay from further up the hill as her idiot boy skied so badly, just carried on and ignored them all.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
it amazes me when you see 4 young kids stopped side by side in the middle of the piste & the parent comes up to tell the well done for sticking together.....
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
I have a theory that people walk how they drive, with a lack of; observation, spacial awareness, planning, consideration, entitlement etc, so maybe the same applies to skiiing/boarding.
My Sister has always been a magnet for out of control individuals, even as beginners stationary listening to the instructor she would get taken out. Even later on following her instructor during private lesson (with no one else on the piste), others would try and ski between her and the instructor occassionally even going over her skis, rather than deviate from their line.
I have a theory that people walk how they drive, with a lack of; observation, spacial awareness, planning, consideration, entitlement etc, so maybe the same applies to skiiing/boarding.
100%
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
We were once stopped by a pisteur on quite a narrow (but very easy) piste in Notre Dame de Bellecombe because some workers up above were jumping on cornices which were threatening the piste. Interesting to see. About 6 of us, so taking up quite a bit of the room. A group of four French lads came charging round behind us, lacked the skill and control to stop in the distance they could see, and sort of hurtled past and came to a halt right beside the pisteur. Who proceeded to give them a piece of his mind. They were very chastened and apologetic. Perhaps they won't ski too fast for their stopping distance again.
After all it is free
After all it is free
Their Rule 5 is different from Snowheads.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
pam w wrote:
My nephew, aged about 8, took out an ESF instructor who was standing in front of his class....
In ski school the first time I went skiing, we rabbits lined up at the edge of one of the pistes while the instructor - who was a bit of a character - stood in front of us to demonstrate some technique. One of his fellow instructors quite calculatedly took the wind out of his demonstration by skiing straight over the front of our instructor's skis, which to be fair were pretty long in those days. Followed in quick succession by 12 six-year-old French kids dutifully following his exact tracks.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
j b wrote:
pam w wrote:
My nephew, aged about 8, took out an ESF instructor who was standing in front of his class....
In ski school the first time I went skiing, we rabbits lined up at the edge of one of the pistes while the instructor - who was a bit of a character - stood in front of us to demonstrate some technique. One of his fellow instructors quite calculatedly took the wind out of his demonstration by skiing straight over the front of our instructor's skis, which to be fair were pretty long in those days. Followed in quick succession by 12 six-year-old French kids dutifully following his exact tracks.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
greengriff wrote:
An axiom that's served me well over the years is 'no matter how dumb or unpredicable a move you can imagine for the skier in front of you to do, he/she can do worse!' Bearing that in mind, if I think I need 10 feet to one side of a skier to pass them safely, I allow 20.
You should allow enough room when passing a skier or boarder for any move they make, voluntary or involuntary (i.e they make a mistake)
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
j b wrote:
pam w wrote:
My nephew, aged about 8, took out an ESF instructor who was standing in front of his class....
In ski school the first time I went skiing, we rabbits lined up at the edge of one of the pistes while the instructor - who was a bit of a character - stood in front of us to demonstrate some technique. One of his fellow instructors quite calculatedly took the wind out of his demonstration by skiing straight over the front of our instructor's skis, which to be fair were pretty long in those days. Followed in quick succession by 12 six-year-old French kids dutifully following his exact tracks.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Alastair Pink wrote:
greengriff wrote:
An axiom that's served me well over the years is 'no matter how dumb or unpredicable a move you can imagine for the skier in front of you to do, he/she can do worse!' Bearing that in mind, if I think I need 10 feet to one side of a skier to pass them safely, I allow 20.
You should allow enough room when passing a skier or boarder for any move they make, voluntary or involuntary (i.e they make a mistake)
This is a concept huge numbers of slope users seem to have a problem with. Seems simple to me. But as previous threads have shown people will argue to the nth degree on it. And I’ve often heard someone complain on the slopes that they were “cut up” or that someone turned across the slope in front of them or otherwise got in their way. I have never come close to skiing into someone, and lots of crazy stuff has happened in front of me. Because I follow this maxim.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
zikomo wrote:
Alastair Pink wrote:
greengriff wrote:
An axiom that's served me well over the years is 'no matter how dumb or unpredicable a move you can imagine for the skier in front of you to do, he/she can do worse!' Bearing that in mind, if I think I need 10 feet to one side of a skier to pass them safely, I allow 20.
You should allow enough room when passing a skier or boarder for any move they make, voluntary or involuntary (i.e they make a mistake)
This is a concept huge numbers of slope users seem to have a problem with. Seems simple to me. But as previous threads have shown people will argue to the nth degree on it. And I’ve often heard someone complain on the slopes that they were “cut up” or that someone turned across the slope in front of them or otherwise got in their way. I have never come close to skiing into someone, and lots of crazy stuff has happened in front of me. Because I follow this maxim.
Sounds like you've been lucky.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@pam w,
Quote:
My nephew, aged about 8, took out an ESF instructor...
Well done that nephew, extra points for that!
@PowderAdict,
Quote:
I have a theory that people walk how they drive, with a lack of; observation, spacial awareness, planning, consideration, entitlement etc, so maybe the same applies to skiiing/boarding.
I commute a motorbike through London...er...cough, enough said!
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Part of the problem is that adults only really have driving as a proxy for handling multiple moving objects in a given space at speed and it is a really bad analogue hence the stupid references to lanes or lines etc.
It is quite possible to cut up someone with intent or ignorance while still remaining adherent to the code but I think it is downright rude or just plain stupid to play the sudden change of direction card in busy traffic. As stupid as the overtaking someone then hitting the brakes.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Ski instructor told me many years ago - "If you are going to cross another skiers path, always pass behind them ; that way you can never hit them.."
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I wanted to check with my mate regarding this issue. Mate, Bill, is BASI 2 qualified so should be up to speed on latest thinking.
When asked the question "have you been advised to stand a group in the middle of a piste" his reply was no. There were other words which can not be written.
It gets much more interesting, last week BASI trainer probably running a Level2 here in Wengen.
I observe trainer and group standing towards piste centre having a talk about?
I watched the group for a moment and seriously considered asking the trainer about his choice of position on the piste! In my view being old and outdated it looked wrong, leaving a 10 possibly 15 metre gap to the piste edge surely encourages dodgy practice from good and poor skiers.
@Rogerdodger,
There is a school of thought that says you should leave room for someone to pass outside you (but I would have thought more like 5 meters than 15). Personally I prefer to stop immediately below a snow cannon. That offers a bit more protection
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
….and, of course, know that almost no one else will actually follow these rules so anticipate that on a minute by minute basis….
@Noob921, Interested in why you think I have been lucky to have avoided skiing into anyone. I don’t at all think it is luck, more that I leave sufficient room for downhill slope users to do anything, no matter how crazy or unexpected, such that I can stop or take avoiding action.
@Dave of the Marmottes, I think we have discussed this before and I agree with you. It is a bit dumb and dangerous to make sudden direction changes in busy areas (or anywhere on piste really). That does not excuse the uphill skier from responsibility to allow sufficient room for you to do so. But it is not smart to assume that everyone will do so. I certainly have hard words if I see a kid or a student doing that, pointing out that they are putting themselves in danger.
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Wed 18-01-23 16:03; edited 1 time in total
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
I usually ski with the same mate. He can't really turn right except in a snow plough, and i can't really turn left, so we usually stop in the middle of a piste so that we both have options to restart. Particularly if we're on a difficult black.
We also prefer to stop just below a crest or hill, because it tends to shield us from the wind a bit better whilst we have our picnic.
After all it is free
After all it is free
Piste X code is excellent, please share far and wide. When teaching I always explained the fis code, even to little kids, and although I always checked uphill before moving off, I expected each kid to check for themselves too. They were never chastised for waiting, only praised for taking responsibility for themselves. Sadly many ski classes don’t include any safety advice.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
As mentioned in my TR, day 1 in Formigal I came over a crest to find an instructor stopped and talking to his group. It went into the calculation of "will I / won't I come back here again?". The conclusion was, I won't.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
milzibkit wrote:
I usually ski with the same mate. He can't really turn right except in a snow plough, and i can't really turn left, so we usually stop in the middle of a piste so that we both have options to restart. Particularly if we're on a difficult black.
We also prefer to stop just below a crest or hill, because it tends to shield us from the wind a bit better whilst we have our picnic.
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
)
. If we are to raise standards need to start early. Not very hard for an instructor to say " if I see you set off again without looking you are out of the class" is it?
