 Poster: A snowHead
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Too late for me this season but next season I'm planning on working in the Alps as a chalet host or something similar. I'm just wondering about Brit's experiences in finding jobs this season? Has it been really difficult because of brexit?
A lot of jobs I'm looking at now say EU passport only but a few do clarify that it's because it's too close to the season now to go through the visa process, so maybe if you apply early it's not a problem?
Thank you and have a great season!!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Looking from the outside, this season has been easier than last season for UK passport holders to find jobs in the Alps, especially via UK tour operators.
One thing that hasn't changed from pre-Brexit is those with the best chance of employment are those who apply early ie May/June (or even during the current season for direct resort jobs).
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Great thanks, I'll make sure to get applying in May.
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@archors, last season was defo very hard. The anglophone pubs in Chamonix weren't even interviewing uk workers.
I believe it's looking better for the coming season, but it's not easy.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@archors,
Also maybe get relevant skills/experience.
E.G. If your looking for a job in a hotel/chalet for winter 23/24 then maybe pick up some part-time work next year before you apply in ‘service’. E.g Cafe, bar, restaurant, hotel.
Im assuming you’re a UK passport holder.
Relevant experience might help persuade a potential employer in the Alps go to the extra effort/expense of sponsoring your work visa.
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One of our lads has got a bar job in Morzine and is a UK passport holder.
The UK passport is not a factor, its whether you have a CdS, and they are not mutually exclusive.
Funnily enough its tons easier to get a job because of the lack of competition.
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@WindOfChange, I was rather assuming (!) uk passport and not in situ ergo no TdS...
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My experience ( or rather my lad's ) to date has been that it is exactly the same as last year - ie not so easy. This info is based on ski instructor work in Austria.
The problem is, firstly finding an employer that is willing to go through the hoops of applying for a work permit for the employee. And secondly, the work permit has to be issued by the labour authorities because you need this before applying for an appointment at the Austrian embassy to get a visa. So, the real issue is timing........his permit has still not been issued, and the visa process can take 3-4 weeks. His start date is mid-December, so you can see the problem. #brexitdividend 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| WindOfChange wrote: |
One of our lads has got a bar job in Morzine and is a UK passport holder.
The UK passport is not a factor, its whether you have a CdS, and they are not mutually exclusive.
Funnily enough its tons easier to get a job because of the lack of competition. |
What's a CdS?
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@archors, carte de sejour
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@archors, it’s a carte de séjour. Or residents permit.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| archors wrote: |
| WindOfChange wrote: |
One of our lads has got a bar job in Morzine and is a UK passport holder.
The UK passport is not a factor, its whether you have a CdS, and they are not mutually exclusive.
Funnily enough its tons easier to get a job because of the lack of competition. |
What's a CdS? |
Cartes de Sejour
https://www.remaininfrance.fr/cartesdesejour
If you're trying to ask about it now, then forget about it, you needed to be in France pre 31/12/2020
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| swskier wrote: |
If you're trying to ask about it now, then forget about it, you needed to be in France pre 31/12/2020 |
You can still obtain one but you need to apply for a work permit then permanent residence
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You know it makes sense.
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I'm aware of two people off to do seasons this winter in France. One is an 18 yo lad who has a UK passport and has a job running a chalet. He has pub kitchen experience and took himself off to do a chalet cooking course in the summer.
The other is a 20 yo girl who also has high quality cooking / cheffing experience, and she has done a number of cooking courses, and will be in a chalet in Val d'Isere. I don't think she has an EU passport either.
Neither found it particularly hard to find employment for the full season, but both applied early summer.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@JDL65, would be interested to know how they're managing the 90 day restrictions and what they had to do for visas etc? Purely as have a child who is also likely to be working in France in January, and to be honest I think they're dealing with the paperwork by ignoring it 
Still I've done my dad duty of ask the questions - he'll be 22 by then so can deal with the consequences
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Boris, problem being that (for France at least) they will need to find an employer who wants to employ them (and who “can’t find” any EU alternative), who’ll then jump thru the employer’s work permit hoops, and then get their own work permit sorted out.
Not at all impossible, but quite a lot of admin.
In Chamonix I know one girl who has been thru the process but despite the ents industries needs, many bars/etc. are still restricting their searches to peeps with existing French working rights.
I don’t see ignoring the Schengen time restrictions being a sensible plan …
YMMV.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I've heard of UK employers now sorting out the work visas, that is for Chalet Tour Ops, can't quite see bars & restos doing it though?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Even for employers willing to do all the paperwork, things are painful. I am employed by Megeve ski area. They knew up front that I had been living in france for over a decade. But it wasn't until I told them I have a Permenent Carte de Sejour that they were sure they could emply me. Turns out certain jobs temp permits and even one year CDS realy make the admin difficult.... and this for a job that requires 2 french qualifications (as in qualifications that are only available in france).
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I read one article that said employers can do the visas online now so it's a lot less of a pain then before...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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It's all such a shame - and so unnecessary. Brexit dividends indeed. The expression "cutting off one's nose to spite one's face" was never sp apt. It was such a great opportunity for the kids.
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@pam w,
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It was such a great opportunity for the kids.
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Not just kids! JanetS and I had a great time working seasons just before Brexit. Have contacted transfer companies since then, but they say that even if you could get work permits, you can't get the Swiss paperwork to drive in and out of GVA.
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I think in time it might become easier to do seasons, I mean, didn’t the French change the rules about seasonal work and claiming benefits between seasons? I could be wrong on that but if it’s also harder to employ French people on seasonal contracts surely it’ll only be a matter of time before seasonal working visas are available, don’t forget French businesses owned by French people will struggle with staffing difficulties and some local authorities do have quite a lot of sway with government.
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| Extremophile wrote: |
| I think in time it might become easier to do seasons, I mean, didn’t the French change the rules about seasonal work and claiming benefits between seasons? I could be wrong on that but if it’s also harder to employ French people on seasonal contracts surely it’ll only be a matter of time before seasonal working visas are available, don’t forget French businesses owned by French people will struggle with staffing difficulties and some local authorities do have quite a lot of sway with government. |
Seasonal work visas for employees are already available. Unfortunately not available for self employed yet.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| snowrider wrote: |
| Extremophile wrote: |
| I think in time it might become easier to do seasons, I mean, didn’t the French change the rules about seasonal work and claiming benefits between seasons? I could be wrong on that but if it’s also harder to employ French people on seasonal contracts surely it’ll only be a matter of time before seasonal working visas are available, don’t forget French businesses owned by French people will struggle with staffing difficulties and some local authorities do have quite a lot of sway with government. |
Seasonal work visas for employees are already available. Unfortunately not available for self employed yet. |
And be easy to applied for without so many hoops to jump through around the work permit on the employer side. To be fair I didn’t word my postvery well.
Didn’t realise there was already a seasonal visa - please can you share a link for me?
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To quote Paul Simon "The Problem is all inside your head".
Since my first season in 1988 and probably well before that, you needed a work permit to do a season in Switzerland.
The process at the time is not dissimilar to the current French system.
You go to the country, find an employer willing to hire you.
You return to the UK and wait for your papers.
Meanwhile the employer sends the relevant forms to the authorities to get your work permit / work visa.
There's now an extra step for the employee about getting the visa from the consulate, but there's also one less step in that you don't have to queue up at 8 o'clock on a cold wintery morning outside a doctors in Basle to have a chest X-ray to get your permit validated.
There is some cost to both the employer and the employee as you have to pay for the chest x-ray.
Switzerland has been operating the employer-initiated work permit for 35 or more years now.
The issue is that in our minds France is free from administration of this nature, and that you ought to be able to get a job (or at least an interview) just by firing off 100s of applications by e-mail.
As an employer I was always worried that the people to whom I had offered jobs might not rock up, and we'd have to go through the process again.
One comfort from an employers perspective is that if the candidate was driven enough to come out and look for work initially, then attend face 2 face interview, then theres a good chance they'll turn up.
We only ever employed 2 people on the strength of phone interviews, and both were disasters.
France has always been a Champion of overly paper-orientated administration.
Now you may not have noticed this as an employee, but as an employer you will know how much paperwork goes into employing somebody legally in France.
Contrat de Travail, Registre De Travail, Medecin de Travail, Cotisation for Training, Urssaf Cotisation, CMU Cositasion ... you only have to look at a French wage slip, and they typically spill over onto a second A4 sheet to appreciate this.
We no longer employ people here, but the extra steps and cost while an annoyance would not be a show-stopper.
Tourist business need good quality, English speaking staff, and that requirement isn't going away.
One thing that is true is that most employment is now on the radar ( even if the number of declared hours is maybe not quite right). Whereas before there were more jobs on UK contracts, and perks as payment type arrangements, these have become a much smaller and less evident part of the employment mix.
We've all convinced ourselves that its now impossible for a Brit to get a seasonal job in France, whereas we should be thinking, that it's still possible but the model for doing so is now like the Swiss model.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@WindOfChange, not really, IMO, the issue is that in this post-brexshit reality, for a uk-only citizen, France is no longer free from administration of this nature, and that, previously, you could easily get a job (or at least an interview) just by firing off 100s of applications (I think in 1988 I sent about 10).
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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In Andorra, anyone who wants to work here (and potential employers) has to jump through the same hoops in order to get temporary residency/work permit regardless of where they are from. There is a preference for those who can speak Spanish or Catalan, but there are tourist jobs available for Brits/English (only) speakers.
The biggest difficulty is housing. There’s a massive shortage of accommodation across the board - long term or seasonal lets and as a result rents have increased massively for what is available (I’m looking for somewhere bigger to live but the rent for anywhere bigger is massive and I only moved here 15 months ago). The majority of potential employers aren’t entertaining anyone who hasn’t already got somewhere to live for the season.
So to answer the question, yes it is more difficult for Brits and anyone else to get work here.
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@under a new name, I'm not saying it's easy.
My point is that its not impossible, and that it reflects the system that has existed in Switzerland for decades.
It means people have to get of their butts and press the flesh.
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You know it makes sense.
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@hammerite, interesting that lodging is not only a problem here. Some businesses are buying up 1 bed apts to offer accom with the employment package.
@WindOfChange, not impossible, but certainly not easy if no longer in EU. (Ooops! who saw that coming?)
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@under a new name, I gave up trying to convince people that Brexit was a crap idea many years ago.
UK citizens voted for it - they reap what they sew.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@WindOfChange,
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UK citizens voted for it - they reap what they sew.
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Not all of us did and it seems to me that we are the ones that are suffering the most.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Any body old enough to vote who stayed in bed and couldn't be arsed and now would like to work in France. Serves you right. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
Any body old enough to vote who stayed in bed and couldn't be arsed and now would like to work in France. Serves you right.
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While in bed, they can at least sleep soundly in the knowledge that we've taken back control and the NHS is better off to the tune of £250m a week 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| WindOfChange wrote: |
@under a new name, I'm not saying it's easy.
My point is that its not impossible, and that it reflects the system that has existed in Switzerland for decades.
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My opinion is that, although the systems may be similar in theory, they will be different in practice. Like most thing Swiss the process will work as it should most of the time. Like many things French, particularly dealing with the authorities, nothing is guaranteed. It depends on who you get on the day, how that individual feels like applying the rules (and how they feel about you), whether your application disappears into a bureaucratic black hole etc. This is what puts french employers off from making the effort, the fact that you could end up spending many frustrating hours getting nowhere.
As mentioned above, some TOs, chalet companies, transfer companies etc. who would prefer to hire brits are prepared (or desperate enough) to make the effort. This autumn our local (Morzine) brit business facebook group has been awash with tales of woe of the visa site being down, the pole-emploi (job centre) site not allowing vacancies to be posted early enough for the visa process to be completed in time for the season, the sites not accepting uk postcodes for applicants' details etc. etc. just endless frustrating and time-wasting bullshït. People spend hours on the phone to get a problem resolved, the fix works for a day, and the next day the site reverts to the same error. This experience is baked-in to dealing with the authorities, it's how they justify employing over 1M "fonctionnaires" to run the government.
So it has undoubtedly become harder for uk citizens to work a season, and disingenuous for leave supporters (not you WoC!) to say you can still do it if you apply yourself. It's a terrible shame, but encouraging that despite the obstacles some people are getting through. Please don't stop trying, the rewards are immense! 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| JDL65 wrote: |
I'm aware of two people off to do seasons this winter in France. One is an 18 yo lad who has a UK passport and has a job running a chalet. He has pub kitchen experience and took himself off to do a chalet cooking course in the summer.
The other is a 20 yo girl who also has high quality cooking / cheffing experience, and she has done a number of cooking courses, and will be in a chalet in Val d'Isere. I don't think she has an EU passport either.
Neither found it particularly hard to find employment for the full season, but both applied early summer. |
It’s not hard. The only people claiming it’s difficult are the usual group of people with whom I respectfully disagree.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Hamilton Academical wrote: |
| It’s not hard. The only people claiming it’s difficult are the usual group of people with whom I respectfully disagree. |
Wrong. It is hard. Have you been through the process ?
And whilst it’s pointless debating the definition of ‘hard’, what’s irrefutable is that the process is 100% ‘harder’ than it used to be. And, for what ?
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@Timberwolf, just a wee request, I have that individual on ignore which is somewhat ruined when it is requoted.
If you don't mind, I prefer not to read his witterings, even 2nd hand. Thank you.
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@under a new name, fair point, and apologies, but I/other posters can't possibly know who has who on ignore. 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Timberwolf, also a fair point, but there are a tiny handful of posters that it seems reasonable to make the assumption about
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| Timberwolf wrote: |
And whilst it’s pointless debating the definition of ‘hard’, what’s irrefutable is that the process is 100% ‘harder’ than it used to be. And, for what ? |
WindOfChange made the good point in that it is just one of the many administrative things that an employer has to go through so it is not 100% harder but it is harder to employee a none EEA person in France.
Given the current serious labour shortages though there's never been a better time to get a work permit although it is a bit late to be doing it now. There is even talk of given CdS to illegals, hundreds of thousands working in France currently.
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FAQ
