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90 days in Schengen planner app

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
A friend of mine has written an app for Android to assist those who may be concerned with the 90 days in 180 limit. Her description of it is:

"Just created a Facebook page for my new Android app, an accurate and user-friendly calculator which makes it easy to maximise the time you can spend in the Schengen area under the 90 days in 180 rule.
The app is now in open testing on Google Play. If you or a friend would like to get it for free, don't forget to ask me for a promo code before the end of July!"

FB link here - https://www.facebook.com/schengen90daysapp/

Playstore here - https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.crocodilesandwichapps.a90daysin180triplengthsplanner&fbclid=IwAR0iFvuxWTcevWZnVJ3UaHDGXcuCOHgcjcWdz8SeTXs9gr0IhVTtTAzBO58

I'm told that this app actually works (unlike many others apparently, including an "official" EU one) but I don't use Android so haven't tested it myself.

As stated, she has made it free via a promo code until the end of July.

Just thought this may be of interest.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Sounds like a solution to a problem that doesn't exist - or at least shouldn't exist.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
The ones I've googled seem to work fine, that said if you can save the info in the app that would be a good thing - how do you get the promo code? it not mentioned on FB
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@holidayloverxx, you have to contact her and ask for one I understand - if you can't find a means to do that I'll ask
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@Yoda, you probably be better posting a promo code here - people just won't want the hassle of asking directly.
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@Dave of the Marmottes, indeed, I've messaged through FB and hope she sees it
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Hmmm, she sent me the code but there was nowhere to enter a promo code after entering the credit card and before clicking Buy. it just went straight to verify its you then the app would be installed shortly. She says there shoudl have been different payment options but maybe I just missed it. she is refunding the payment


Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Wed 27-07-22 11:18; edited 1 time in total
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
I've posted the above responses in a Skype chat to them - I'll post any responses here in due course.
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@Yoda, thanks - she says she will give better instructions next time. all nicely dealt with
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responses so far: You have to tap on the credit card to see "redeem code"

they can message my page for a code, can't post as each code is unique
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@Yoda, but how do you know to do that? I have stored credit cards and I just saw that. anyway, she says she will give that instruction in future
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
As far as "a problem that shouldn't exist" is concerned my response is well of course that's absolutely right - but it seems that a number of people voted for it, for reasons which are beyond me.

Her response is - "Many people find an app useful because of the rolling 180 days, it's actually quite tricky to see how many days you can stay for because previous trips can become irrelevant during your current trip. See my website for an example"
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@Yoda, I read "a solution to a problem that doesn't exist" as meaning it shouldn't be beyond people to count how many days they have been in the Schengen area and work it out for themselves?
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@ster, its the rolling 180 that makes it a ballache
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
I can see that the app might be be useful if it properly applies the rules e.g. most people would intuitively regard a Sat-Sat trip as 7 days where it is actually 8 days in Schengen and could thus fall foul if they make frequent trips as each trip is effectively grossed up by a day. Even more so if you were to seasonally commute on weekends - all those Friday night and Monday morning flights could effectively double the actual days.

Nothing anyone couldn't handle if moderately competent with a spreadsheet but competence is not always common.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@Dave of the Marmottes, I did a spreadsheet but rather have it as an app
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Do travel days count as one of the days?

Don't forget stuff like leap year bonus days if you're right on the limit of the 90 or rolling 180.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@Dave of the Marmottes, it's not as straightforward for many it would seem -- especially when traversing time zones. I understand that many of the available apps actually give the wrong answers - not helpful if you don't want the €1000 fine and possibility of not being allowed in again....
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@andy, yes, any day that you are in the zone
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Forgot to post the link

https://crocodilesandwichapps.com/index.php/en/apps/90-days-in-schengen-planner

app takes account of leap years, DST and time zones I understand
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@Yoda, don't know how it can deal with DST and time zones, you just put in travel dates, it doesn't ask for location or time of travel
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
As Hal would say, the response is "You won't notice this issue unless travelling, but the calendar picker stores dates in what we used to call GMT but is now called UTC, but displays them according to the local timezone. Thus it could display a different date to the one which you put in! My app makes sure that doesn't happen."
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@Yoda, but how does it know the local timezone if it doesn't know where you were/are going to?
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@holidayloverxx, It compares the date stored with the date returned by the local timezone, if the local timezone returns the wrong date it adjusts it back to the intended date.
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Knowing I would be very tight on my allowed days this season, I checked at the border post on the way out through the tunnel on the way to the PSB.
We were on a 23:20 train that would arrive in France at 00:50 so I asked, does our departure day count as a day in Schengen even though we don't arrive in the zone until tomorrow?

"Yes" they said, as the border post is in the UK, the time that matters is when the passport is stamped.
"OK" I said, "but the time in France when the passport is stamped or the time in the UK?"
That point was moot as it was 22:45 as we went through check-in so it was still only 23:45 in France.

However... the supervisor said, should I end up in a situation where that day mattered, to simply explain the timings and if necessary show evidence of the travel times on the booking and it won't be a problem.
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Why pay for one when this free one has been available for some time? https://play.google.com/store/search?q=shengen+calculator&c=apps
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Yoda wrote:
@holidayloverxx, It compares the date stored with the date returned by the local timezone, if the local timezone returns the wrong date it adjusts it back to the intended date.


That assumes you are entering the data locally...doesn't it? I've just entered all my travel from 1st Jan 2022 to 12th Feb 2023. The point is its a planner, so you can fiddle around with future trips before booking to make sure you have enough days left


Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Wed 27-07-22 15:11; edited 1 time in total
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
I have to say I'm very impressed with the mental arithmetic the border police are able to perform as they flick through your passport, matching arrival dates and departure dates, which are sometimes on different pages, then calculating the number of days between them and keeping a runnning total.

It could be possible for example to miss the stamp that says you entered at Calais on April 1st and left on the 4th for Croatia, then leaving Croatia in the middle of June and leaving Calais in July. If you miss the Croatian stamps you could mistakenly think you have been in Shengen for over 90 days. They have to be careful and all the time asking after you health.

I have over 6 pages with European stamps on already in my passport and suspect frequent travellers will have many more. There is a lot to check.

I don't beleive there is a single Shengen area computer system behind it either.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
johnE wrote:
I don't beleive there is a single Shengen area computer system behind it either.
I understand this is in development.

I suspect, whenever it's ready will be long before the 'technological solution' Bojo promised would negate any Irish border issues.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@Raceplate,
Quote:
"Why pay? Perhaps because I put in more effort than the free ones and would like to be bought a coffee in return! The link above goes to a search result, not a specific app, but I wrote the app after a friend said he didn’t find any of the available apps, free or not, useful. They either didn’t show clearly how much time you actually had left or until when, or you had to enter dates in chronological order, or they didn’t save your data (the website versions), or they just gave the wrong answer! For instance, SchengenCalc2 has a screenshot of 21 November 2019 calculating days since 25 May, but if you get your spreadsheet out and check, the 180 day period starts on 26 May!"
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@holidayloverxx, "The app doesn't assume you are entering the data locally, it assumes that the date you enter is the one you mean, whether you were at home or in the Schengen area already when you entered that date"
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@Yoda, all I can say is that I've used that app for a while and it seems to calculate it correctly. But I haven't looked at it forensically. Not that it makes much difference but this is the direct link: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mssdevlab.shengencalculatorfree
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@Raceplate, Well, this is your chance to download both apps for free and see which one you prefer!
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@Raceplate, just downloaded the app and it seems to agree with a very quick spreadsheet I knocked up on when days start "renewing". Tip (date +180) in excel tells you when you get a renewed day; but you have to do (leave date - entry date +1) to calculate days used.

The app you pointed to is simple and intuitive I think at least for me.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Yoda wrote:
@holidayloverxx, "The app doesn't assume you are entering the data locally, it assumes that the date you enter is the one you mean, whether you were at home or in the Schengen area already when you entered that date"


I'm completely baffled then, if I enter a date of entry and exit, either in the past or future, how can it manage time zones if it doesn't know what time zone you are/were/planning to be in?

I know I'm making a meal of this and it really won't affect me...but....
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@holidayloverxx, I think that Alice is out at present, but I'm sure she'll reply when she has a chance to, and I'll post it here for you.

Almost wish I had an Android phone so I could play with this myself and see how it works Toofy Grin
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
holidayloverxx, I am probably being stupid, but I can't see how the Time Zone (an hour either way) is going to make a difference.
And anyway, as stated above, will a day here or there really be a problem? And that's assuming it is noticed.
My wife's passport was not stamped on one occasion earlier this year. No one has commented on crossings since.

Some usefull info from Connexion: https://www.connexionfrance.com/article/French-news/Brexit/The-EU-s-90-180-day-rule-How-does-it-work-for-visitors-to-France.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@Jonpim, for the majority? of people who just do e.g. a few holiday trips a year it doesn't really matter. I think these apps are more aimed at those who are fortunate enough to have second homes or are otherwise spending long periods in Schengen.
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Yes. thank you Yoda. I understand.

And sort of related, interesting what the French French border control staff are meant to do for everyone entering France:

When they are handed a passport, they should theoretically:
● Make sure that the person’s identity corresponds with the passport details
● Check that they have not been in the EU for more than 90 days in the past 180
● Check that their passport has at least three months’ validity left
● Make sure that the passport was issued less than 10 years before the date of entry into the EU
● Ask the traveller whether they have a return ticket
● Ask for proof of travel insurance
● Check that the person has sufficient funds to support themselves during their stay in the EU

That would really make for some even more horrible queues.
https://www.connexionfrance.com/article/French-news/Brexit/Explainer-How-has-Brexit-changed-UK-passport-checks-at-EU-borders


Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Thu 28-07-22 8:59; edited 1 time in total
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@holidayloverxx, does this make it any clearer? -

"You don't need to worry about time zones, the app always gives the correct answer, where-ever you are and whenever you put in the dates.
The border personnel would calculate your 90 days using the date in the country you are visiting when you arrive and leave, and it's irrelevant if it's already tomorrow in Sydney or still yesterday in New York! Put the dates of your planned trip into the app and it gives exactly the same answer as they would, even if you put in the dates of the planned trip when you were in Sydney last year and you are now in Paris.

However time zones are a potential source of bugs that developers should test for, I notice on the store listing of the other app mentioned, under "What's new", item 1.0.9 "Time Zone bug fixed".

Here's a technical explanation for anyone who wants to know:
The problem arises because dates in Android are manipulated as a single number, which is actually the number of milliseconds since 1 January 1970. Your phone gets the time from the network, and when you select a date, it converts it into milliseconds. When the calendar displays the date again, it converts it into day month year in local time. So if you selected 25 March as the start of your trip to Europe when you were in London and it was 11 pm on 4 March (so you were in GMT), then you arrived in Paris on 25 March, then on 3 April you were leaving Paris and opened the calendar, the calendar would have displayed 26 March because you are now in French Summertime and the number of milliseconds without correction gives 1 am on 26 March. My app shows the intended start date of 25 March."
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