 Poster: A snowHead
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| kosmoz wrote: |
97% my ass  is 100% energy in the grid from hydro/solar/wind/nuclear? nope, quite some of it is from burning coal/gas, which is far from 100%. High voltage energy grid efficiency is ~66%, around 34% is lost on the way from power plant to your socket. Then another % is lost in your charger, you add 50 kw/h to your electricity bill, but less than 50 kw/h goes to you battery. EV's is not about reducing CO2, it's about moving it out of living areas.
Tesla design is mazda from 2000's, assembly quality of a dacia or lada, that "dirty old" 530d is better in every measurable way except acceleration. Skiing is not a cheap activity to begin with. To travel at 100+ mph in comfort and silent, none existent battery range anxiety, save a lot of time and it's only 200-300 eur extra per car for the whole skiing trip - that's a bargain. Pack you poo-poo, get behind the wheel and drive, no route planning, no calculating where to charge, how much to charge etc. Want to save some - avoid filling on motorways, drive out 1-5 km to the nearby town and it will be 0,15eur cheaper. |
I suspect we have some lack of understanding here...
EV efficiency is nothing to do with grid efficiency. It means how much of the battery's energy is converted into automotive force, as opposed to engine noise, mechanical losses and heat.
If we were going to take into account grid efficiency we would also have to take into account the impact of fuel distribution; I suspect that if you worked out the energy cost of extracting oil, refining, storing, distributing you'd have a very low overall efficiency!
With the electricity grid, historically the problem has been that there has been a rush to renewable sources, but a much smaller amount of storage. What should have happened was a wind farm, say, being built in the wilds of wherever, and large storage solutions built near to where most is being used so that line-losses are taken from direct renewable rather than stored power. In actual fact, storage has lagged significantly due to short-sightedness, meaning we get loads of generation when it's windy or sunny but not enough of the excess is stored.
Now in my case, my Tesla (which has better build quality than my Peugeot, and definitely better than my Abarth!) is charged during the day by a combination of my solar panels and my batteries. Perhaps a quarter of the charge is supplied by the grid - this is effectively free to me as it comes out of the excess I've built up by exporting. So my little system is more like a microcosm of what the system should be like - direct use from renewables, and any more needed comes from storage (i.e my excess).
Now I'm not sure if an obvious BMW fanboi would get this, but it's possible... After all, BM's are just that little bit po-faced; I'll bet you can't play SuperMario Cart in it using the car's controls, and you can't make it produce very realistic farts every time you put on the indicator!
Not only that, but a 530d would be creamed round the twisties by my Abarth!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Leonard Smalls wrote: |
| Now I'm not sure if an obvious BMW fanboi would get this, but it's possible... After all, BM's are just that little bit po-faced; I'll bet you can't play SuperMario Cart in it using the car's controls, and you can't make it produce very realistic farts every time you put on the indicator! |
A rhetorical question surely?... the indicators *might* do that on a BMW, but since they've never been used... no-one would know!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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As mentioned above, waste of time arguing. His defence to driving a 530D was so that he didn’t have to sit at 62 mph.
Then he posted a video of a 7 Series (lol) doing 63 mpg to prove his point that it was possible to get 63 mpg. The problem was, he claimed he got this mpg doing 100 mph in his 530d and er, the guy in the video was doing 60 mph the entire way, which circles round to the dudes entire reason for not wanting an EV.
Finally for the cherry on the top, he’s lying anyway. As I said, fuelly.com has a pool of over 200 people who independently verify that the 530d does 27 mpg lol.
As I say, just another liar who doesn’t like EVs - let him enjoy his old 5 series and we will all live happily ever after. 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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you are so stupid. this thread is only 3 pages long, will you find me place, where I said it's 60 odd MPG fuel consumption sitting at 100+ mph speed? You made this up, counting in electricity price, you theoretical consumption and 2 eur/liter fuel price.
And I don't own a BMW, I have a Range Rover 3,6 TDV8, with which I do ~20k miles per year with 22 MPG average.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| kosmoz wrote: |
| you are so stupid. And I don't own a BMW, I have a Range Rover 3,6 TDV8, with which I do ~20k miles per year with 22 MPG average. |
you are a charmer, aren't you? Careful calling people stupid though, when you drive a car like that with current prices.
FWIW I am a biased Tesla 3 owner who schedules the car to charge at night with renewable electricity at a reduced rate (via Octopus)
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| kosmoz wrote: |
| you are so stupid. this thread is only 3 pages long, will you find me place, where I said it's 60 odd MPG fuel consumption sitting at 100+ mph speed? You made this up, counting in electricity price, you theoretical consumption and 2 eur/liter fuel price. |
It was an implied statement - see snowdave's post Thu 14 Jul, 22 10:13 - based on what you said the post just above it. See also the posts directly after also as you refuted it but I think ultimately the point is you are taking extreme scenario's and bending figures to match your stance on this. A stance probably taken to justify your own actions. You should be more open minded.
| kosmoz wrote: |
| And I don't own a BMW, I have a Range Rover 3,6 TDV8, with which I do ~20k miles per year with 22 MPG average. |
Marvellous - you seem very proud.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@kitenski, Useful information, but as I see the moral is: don't take bikes with you or cycle all the way.
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@kitenski, time of travel to/from the main destination - identical for M3 and c220d? Your in-laws waited for you when you stopped or continued onwards?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@mooney058, not my trip, just presenting some hard facts. As I understand it both parties did their own thing leaving at the same time.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@jedster, Tesla superchargers are definitely not cheap, but fast and fully integrated into the sat nav etc. networks like ionity allow an annual pass that gives discount and there is a new app called Bonnet that gives discount on 3rd party chargers ( but not tesla superchargers).
I pay 5p per kw charging at home on my cheap overnight rate , I think the superchargers near me are 50p+ per kw
But yeah fast charging on motorways isn’t cheap, but still significantly cheaper than a decent diesel car.
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You know it makes sense.
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Driving to Zermatt by Tesla later this month. Will post an update once completed.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Totally contrived of course but beginning to show that unrestrained travel if possible IF you have a highly accurate range calculator in the car. Bearing in mind for most people used to ICE anything less than 50 miles has a bit of squeaky bum to it, I would think there is still a "trust" needed to allow EVs to run to within 20 mile range where necessary.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I wonder what the collective average duration between our last "ran out of gas" episode and today is. For me, it has been around 30 years. Point being: no matter the energy source, we don't like running out if it, or having to hunt for it. So I'm waiting. I hope the charging infrastructure catches up quickly, though. The neck-snapping torque of EVs is intoxicating.
FWIW my wife's 330e plug in hybrid is a great compromise rig.....19 miles on battery is sufficient for errands or commuting, and a 2.0 for the rest. (Small gas tank, however)
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Scooter in Seattle, I've never run out of a charge and been driving EVs since 2015.
I did run out of gas in a Westfield kit car in 2005 or 2006 about 1/2 mile from the garage I was trying to get to as I was coming back from a track day and the one I'd planned to goto was shut!
@Dave of the Marmottes, currently some 3rd party chargers ain't that reliable to I'd never pull up to a public charger with less than 10% charge (to allow a chance of getting elsehwere) (Telsa super chargers probably the exception). I will had have pulled onto the drive with 1% left though 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Scooter in Seattle wrote: |
| I wonder what the collective average duration between our last "ran out of gas" episode and today is. For me, it has been around 30 years. Point being: no matter the energy source, we don't like running out if it, or having to hunt for it. |
I've done it twice - both times in rental cars so the unfamilarity with how reliable an individual vehicle's fuel gauge was clearly was a factor. With hindsight the dramatic reduction in range on the second incident was so severe I suspect someone might have siphoned the tank while parked or possibly it had recorded a false fill maximum previously.
The first was just dickhead human error pre mobile internet = "there's bound to be a petrol station at the next exit", "OK must be at the next", "oh crap don't think we'll make it". Coasted up the off ramp and stalled within a minutes walk of the gas station.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
I wonder what the collective average duration between our last "ran out of gas"
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That got me wondering - whatever happened to LPG. It was all the rage a while back to convert larger cars to run it, but I cannot recall the last time I saw it at a filling station, apart from Pakistan that is.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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It's a veerry long time since I ran out of petrol/diesel. But I certainly get itchy when the gauge is low and every now and again there is a strike/protest which causes supply issues which makes things fun.
There are ups and downs with electrics. With the clear up being able to charge at home and the clear down being range/currently sporadic options away from home.
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| userscott wrote: |
Has anybody had any practical experience of driving a Tesla from UK to Alps. Thinking of Tigne in December, will have a Long Range M3 replacing existing car by then.
Comfortable with getting to the Chunnel but literally clueless as to what it’s realistically like on the other side.
Anybody done it? |
Just to chim in with my experience, I've driven to the alps (Samoens) in my Model 3 Long Range twice and it was great. Your car will have slightly longer usable range than my 2021 car, but supercharging is easy, and Tesla autopilot on the French autoroute is perfect.
I'd suggest buying the attachment (via ebay) which fits to the steering wheel and means you don't get constantly nagged to hold the wheel - doesn't sound like much, but it makes a big difference on a long journey, and it's still safe as you can still easily take over if needed.
One other point - the Tesla is perfect for enjoying alpine mountain roads - I'd often take my car to the top of the mountain during my holiday just for the fun of driving it - the torque pushing you out of the tight hairpin corners is great!
I've had electric cars for about 8 years, including a few Nissan Leafs and an I-pace. Currently I run a 64kwh e-niro for my wife where I have the Model 3. The Tesla is the only EV I've had which I could realistically drive to the alps. Enjoy!
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| johnE wrote: |
| Quote: |
I wonder what the collective average duration between our last "ran out of gas"
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That got me wondering - whatever happened to LPG. It was all the rage a while back to convert larger cars to run it, but I cannot recall the last time I saw it at a filling station, apart from Pakistan that is. |
pretty much every car sine 2010 went direct injection, which makes LPG systems expensive, complicated and a very long time investment before you break even and start saving money. Plus not every engine is available for LPG conversions, since it's a RND cost involved to make one or another engine to be converted, not every manufacturer invest in less common engines.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
Everyone has their own economic model for their own vehicle with various levels of denial incorporated.
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This. A lot of people would NOT drive the car they do, on the purchase/lease terms they do, if they subjected their overall motoring costs to the kind of micro-analysis exhibited in this thread.
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| Quote: |
I wonder what the collective average duration between our last "ran out of gas" episode and today is
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l have only ran out of fuel twice.
once with my ex wife (girlfriend at the time), about 25 years ago with her driving her old metro on the M1, when the fuel gauge suddenly dropped, which apparently happened all the time!!!!
fortunately she had a family AA membership that allowed us to call them out to re-fuel us to get us to the nearest services.
the other time before that was when i was working in the alps and driving one of the company minibuses down from Meribel to moutiers to meet the chalet staff to take them back from the weekly shop.
i knew i was low, but was planning to get a couple of litres of fuel from the expensive petrol station near resort just to be safe, we were told we were only allowed to use this one in emergencies, but it was closed that morning.
i managed to get down to just past the brides le Bains turn off, when the fuel cut out, fortunately (to a certain degree) the steering was not power assisted, so i had managed to coast and steer to just into the fuel station at the super U supermarket at the bottom of the road.
if i could of at the time i would have bought several euro lottery tickets!!!!
after that i have made sure that i have a full fuel can in any of my cars i own at the time with me all the time.
i have just got back from Rome, and you would be hard pushed to run out of fuel there. they have self service fuel stations (along with normal petrol stations) with one or two pumps dotted around the city what seems like every 500metres!!!
not that we were driving, but both myself and my eldest daughter noticed this on the taxi ride from the airport to central Rome on the way in.
conversely, there are only 5no petrol stations in all of Bath!!!
with regards to EV vehicles, i have recently bought a plug in hybrid, so i take an interest in EV charging, and I didn't see one public EV charging point in Rome, but looking on my charging app, there seemed to be some private ones dotted around.
unfortunately, I currently do not have the opportunity to charge at home, so with the current state of public charging facilities, both in the UK and when I was recently in Rome and France in June (yes, most service stations on motorways have charging, when they work!!!!), I could not go fully electric.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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ran out of gas (diesel) during skiing trip  it was a vw transporter, new, but very low spec, base model, so it didn't even have trip computer with fuel range readings. odometer, speedometer, tachometer, clock, aircon, media player with cd/usb and bluetooth and pretty much that's it A friend took it from his business car fleet. So we were driving on S8, a motorway from Warshaw to Wroclaw, everybody apart driver are sleeping, since it was ~ midnight. Friend was not using navi, drove by the road signs to Wroclaw, since where I had to take over for a night stint, and on that motorway there simply isn't gas stations, like we are used to have by the road in Lithuania or anywhere else. And we ran out of fuel, it took like ~100km driving with low fuel warning expecting to find a gas station Lucky we managed to hitchhike a car, in a few minutes, which took me to the nearest gas station, where I got a jerry can and 10l of diesel. Easy 50eur for the helpful guys and we continued the trip, of course filling up at the same gas station in the small town close to motorway, since there isn't any on the motorway itself.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Driving out to Zermatt later today in a Tesla Y. FWIW I will be posting updates at twitter.com/skipedia
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I now carry a 5L jerry can in the boot - its one of those with an internal honeycomb that minimises vapour escape and prevents ignition in the case of an accident. It's a Wavian ExploSafe™ currently priced at just under £40. It makes a huge difference in reducing range anxiety on long autoroute journeys and has never leaked, even when it's been loose in the boot after removing the luggage. Eurotunnel are OK with carrying a charged petrol can, up to a certain limit (I think it's 10-20L depending on the container). If you order one, you also need to order the delivery spout separately.
When I had a 3L Jeep turbo diesel (it was a Mercedes 5-cyl engine) I came across the problem of TDs being prone to vacuum issues when parked uphill with an empty tank. It was in a ski resort in CH and the Jeep was about 20% full. I parked on a very steep hill, facing uphill, and couldn't get the car started again later. Fortunately, there was space to roll backwards with enough momentum to U-turn and roll a little downhill. Once the tank was higher then the engine, it primed and started OK. The garage said this was an issue with turbo diesels, which need a load of pressure to prime and start: parked on a steep uphill, the vacuum in the tank overcomes the ability of the fuel pump to prime the engine. This was about 15 years ago, so perhaps current models don't suffer from this, but it's perhaps worth being aware of.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| LaForet wrote: |
I now carry a 5L jerry can in the boot - its one of those with an internal honeycomb that minimises vapour escape and prevents ignition in the case of an accident. It's a Wavian ExploSafe™ currently priced at just under £40. It makes a huge difference in reducing range anxiety on long autoroute journeys and has never leaked, even when it's been loose in the boot after removing the luggage. Eurotunnel are OK with carrying a charged petrol can, up to a certain limit (I think it's 10-20L depending on the container). If you order one, you also need to order the delivery spout separately.
When I had a 3L Jeep turbo diesel (it was a Mercedes 5-cyl engine) I came across the problem of TDs being prone to vacuum issues when parked uphill with an empty tank. It was in a ski resort in CH and the Jeep was about 20% full. I parked on a very steep hill, facing uphill, and couldn't get the car started again later. Fortunately, there was space to roll backwards with enough momentum to U-turn and roll a little downhill. Once the tank was higher then the engine, it primed and started OK. The garage said this was an issue with turbo diesels, which need a load of pressure to prime and start: parked on a steep uphill, the vacuum in the tank overcomes the ability of the fuel pump to prime the engine. This was about 15 years ago, so perhaps current models don't suffer from this, but it's perhaps worth being aware of. |
later part will explain why first part might not work. 5 liters is less than a reserve and fuel pumps might not catch it and you will not start your car with so little fuel after it runs out of fuel. The correct strategy would be put those 5 liters from jerry can to your tank when you are running fumes, not after you run out.
Had a VW Passat 4motion. with weak primary fuel pump in the tank, Even when the fuel range was showing 160-200 km, it could not keep up with increased fuel flow, i.e. driving at ~140-150 kmh. In the city driving conditions I oculd empty it out until 20-50 km no problem, did not try my luck. So, one day I was doing like ~150 kmh on a motorway and ran out of fuel, even though range was like 180 km, far from empty, far from low fuel light lights up. Road assistance towed me to the nearest gas station, it was not the one, which I have a company fuel card, so at first i filled up only 10 liters and it did not start, then another 10 liters and then it started. I believe a mesh/filter at the bottom of fuel tank was dirty, but since it was a 4 motion passat, taking down fuel tank was not an easy task and I did not care enough to fix that. In my previoous story with VW Transporter running out of fuel we were lucky to start it with only 10 liters of fuel, on an even ground, new car with ~10k km on the clock.
back to EV, with electricity prices constantly increasing, does anyone still expects to drive in Europe cheaper than an adequate diesel car?
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Poster: A snowHead
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Just been to Zermatt and Chamonix in a Tesla Y - what a joy this trip was. So simple. Will put together a video in due course, but it with a range of 330m and a huge range of superchargers to choose from across Europe it was just so straightforward.
Never worked out how to post photos, but one here:
https://twitter.com/skipedia/status/1564945198878171138
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| kosmoz wrote: |
| later part will explain why first part might not work. 5 liters is less than a reserve and fuel pumps might not catch it and you will not start your car with so little fuel after it runs out of fuel. |
Sorry, that's not what I was suggesting. I probably wasn't clear.
No, you certainly don't want to run out of fuel on a diesel, because it may not start again (every diesel I've owned has this emphatically stated in the owner's manual, so it shouldn't be a big surprise). And even in a petrol it's not a good idea, as there may be all sorts of dregs being sucked in. My strategy has always been to use the 5L to top-up once we realise we may have a range problem, and get us to the next service station with a comfortable reserve. Hence the comment about reducing range anxiety. Unlike the UK, most autoroutes have an aire before the next service station, where you can top-up easily. Personally, I find that on the autoroute it's fairly easy to do the calculation of remaining reserve before the next fill, and have used the top-up more as an insurance. Cross-country, it's a bit harder as there isn't the same signage.
I've used the can where I've calculated to fill-up at an automated fuel station and the payment system hasn't worked (same problem for an NL car behind me). The distance to the next station was uncomfortable in terms of reserve, so with an extra 5L I was much happier that we'd make it OK.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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. Sorted 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@harrim51, Ah, the range extender option
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Our friends came with us in their Tesla in Feb half term, Yorkshire to Thollon, no issues at all, they weren't actually that far behind us in our diesel and had no problem finding chargers. Only issue was in resort, although just spotted there are new ones in Evian now. We've got an EV company car arriving next week and are planning on driving down (from Yorkshire) next summer in it. For Feb we'll go down in the Berlingo as it's got winter tyres already fitted and snow chains in the boot which would be an outlay for us in the new Kia, plus we're stuck with half term so flight prices are outrageous. Got flights booked for Xmas but with the car hire coming in at £750 I'm considering moving the flights and driving down too!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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My new EV company car arrives next month replacing my BMW520D. We too have opted to take my mates S-Max diesel on our January trip down to Samoens (we usually take my company car as might as well put the miles on that) rather than "risk" the first EV trip in winter. My wife and I are planning a touring trip in June in France in it though, so that will lay a marker down for future ski trips (mate wants to get rid of the S-Max soon as 10 years old now)
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people with more money buy EV's. People with more money goes to all different kinds or resorts, ski resorts included, thus at least in warm time of the year concentration of EV's in resorts is higher than in other places which leads to those few chargers are usually occupied and better get in resort fully charged, if staying in place, where using wall charger is not possible.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| BobinCH wrote: |
| And what about the 4 sets of ski carriage that is now mandatory for any SnowHeads compliant Alpine ski holiday: piste, all mountain, powder and touring setup! |
Afraid I’ve been adding a 5th set, telemarks, to the Snowheads-compliant quiver but there’s loads of room in the Model Y and all the skis are in Tignes anyhow.
Wondering whether the free charging in Tignes car parks will still be available this season…
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Great real-life review Iain.
I’ll add comments after our December (hopefully winter) round trip in a Model Y with 2 dogs.
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FAQ
