I buy cars brand new for cash and then drive them until they are unreliable. Should I therefore regard every mile I use the car for as "free" as I have already paid for the car? For sure the total cost per mile is a great deal less than for those who are leasing, but the logic seems to be lost for those who lease. Especially company car drivers - I was one in the past because I could not afford the car I wanted at the time not because I was fooling myself that my motoring was cheaper that way.
How is a company car driver fooling themselves? The very car I’m referring to as OP of this post is a 2022 M3 Long Range which is included as part of my remuneration in its entirety other than the £8.68 per month of BIK charges.
I suspect foolish would be me going out and buying a new car for cash, an outdated buying practice for what is a very heavily depreciating asset.
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Tue 12-07-22 16:28; edited 1 time in total
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Fly v drive is a debate that has been had many times and ultimately there are so many ifs and buts and personal preferences the decision ultimately is a personal one. It's certainly not all, sometimes not at all, cost driven.
But I thought this thread was about driving an EV to the Alps...
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@damanpunk, on the model 3, some of the standard range versions didn't come with a heat pump, this improves the winter range significantly.
@userscott, I’ve done the journey in both directions and it was fine. There are plenty of Superchargers in France. Suspect the one below between Annecy and Albertville may be a key one to get the car well charged up so you can get to and back from resort without having to mess around with slow charging in resort. My Tesla was a 2016 Model X but it did lose a fair bit of charge overnight if left outside in really cold temps so get some covered parking if you can or have a backup plan to charge it at a hotel or car park in resort.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@BobinCH, The Supercharger in your screenshot isn't between Annecy and Albertville, it is near Moutiers.
@userscott, I’ve done the journey in both directions and it was fine. There are plenty of Superchargers in France. Suspect the one below between Annecy and Albertville may be a key one to get the car well charged up so you can get to and back from resort without having to mess around with slow charging in resort. My Tesla was a 2016 Model X but it did lose a fair bit of charge overnight if left outside in really cold temps so get some covered parking if you can or have a backup plan to charge it at a hotel or car park in resort.
but Shirley....
You don't want to be more than (say) half charged when you come to leave? The first 20-30km from most of the Tarantaise resorts is down the hill, so regenerative charging should actually fill up the batteries on the way down. No point wasting free leccy. I know my (petrol) car was showing 87MPG on the way down from Tignes to Albertville, whereas it normally does about 45MPG on those sorts of A roads and dual cabbage ways.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
30k downhill running all the electrics etc might be 10-15k of range added, i.e. about 5%. Not material enough to worry about how you charge, and at least partially within the buffer zone of modern EVs (which don't really charge to 100%).
After all it is free
After all it is free
rjs wrote:
@BobinCH, The Supercharger in your screenshot isn't between Annecy and Albertville, it is near Moutiers.
Yes sorry between Albertville and Moutiers - closest one to Tignes.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@Judwin, it adds a few km, but not a huge amount. You just don't really want to fully charge in resort because then you won't get the regen braking on the way down.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Judwin wrote:
BobinCH wrote:
@userscott, I’ve done the journey in both directions and it was fine. There are plenty of Superchargers in France. Suspect the one below between Annecy and Albertville may be a key one to get the car well charged up so you can get to and back from resort without having to mess around with slow charging in resort. My Tesla was a 2016 Model X but it did lose a fair bit of charge overnight if left outside in really cold temps so get some covered parking if you can or have a backup plan to charge it at a hotel or car park in resort.
but Shirley....
You don't want to be more than (say) half charged when you come to leave? The first 20-30km from most of the Tarantaise resorts is down the hill, so regenerative charging should actually fill up the batteries on the way down. No point wasting free leccy. I know my (petrol) car was showing 87MPG on the way down from Tignes to Albertville, whereas it normally does about 45MPG on those sorts of A roads and dual cabbage ways.
He’ll use up a fair chunk of charge on the way up and may lose some more during the week if it’s cold so I’d want to leave that charger with the car at least 80% charged. On the way down he’ll hardly use any but that’s fine. Alternatively charge it nr Chambéry and find an overnight 22KW charger in Tignes in a hotel or parking. That way he leaves with a full charge and saves time on the way home. The weekend before check how many of the charging units are in use at his target charging stations at the time he’ll be passing to avoid the risk of long waits.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@BobinCH, unsure of status (I'll edit out if inappropriate) as I'm not ev driver, but when in villaroger, nearby the route up to Tignes, noticed a Tesla charge point in the village there https://chargemap.com/mineral-lodge.html which may offer a closer option if publicly available. Very nice place for lunch if at that timing too (you'll need to be sharp on opening time as most skiers from LA 2000 heading down there are of the same mind) you've only got the climb up through St Foy and on to Tignes at about 20 kms total then to destination.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
possible, but would not do that. 1,5-2 hours of driving and half an hour charging. Charging cost will exceed regular fuel costs, and trip will be slower. of course, to buy or rent regular car, when you only have M3, is not an option, but this seems to me more like a tesla fan boy adventure trip with M3 somewhere distant, this time skiing, than going to ski using a tesla as a transportation.
i'm a fan of driving to ski resorts, and from where I live Austria is 1000 miles and France/Italy is 1400 miles. Diesel engine VW Multivan or an estate covers 400-450 miles at a speed of 80-120, is fast to fill up, and there are no queues at the pump or pumps not working at all.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
kosmoz wrote:
of course, to buy or rent regular car, when you only have M3, is not an option, but this seems to me more like a tesla fan boy adventure trip with M3 somewhere distant, this time skiing, than going to ski using a tesla as a transportation.
I think we have all moved passed this sort of childish stuff. Especially as I have already been clear I have a diesel Berlingo van which is maintained for and only used for skiing - it’s in full winter spec and myself and friends have done dozens of ski trips in the old girl.
For somebody to enquire as to the practicalities of using an EV for the same trip is not simply “fan boy” behaviour. Forgive me for wanting to travel in slightly more comfort in a more environmentally friendly vehicle.
Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much on Wed 13-07-22 10:09; edited 1 time in total
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@userscott, well said.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
In case it's relevant for Tesla drivers, there's a large new supercharger station under construction at the Carrefour in Sallanches. Still fenced off at present, but looks pretty much complete. This will be the perfect charging spot for anyone heading to Chamonix, St Gervais/Les Contamines, Megeve etc.
And for non-Tesla drivers, there's some charging points under construction at the Quechua mountain store one junction towards Chamonix on the A40. I'll check out the network/spec next time I'm passing.
Driving down this summer, even at motorway services where there was a 3-4car per pump (c. 10-15min) queue for petrol, I never once saw a queue for the EV chargers.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
userscott wrote:
zikomo wrote:
I buy cars brand new for cash and then drive them until they are unreliable. Should I therefore regard every mile I use the car for as "free" as I have already paid for the car? For sure the total cost per mile is a great deal less than for those who are leasing, but the logic seems to be lost for those who lease. Especially company car drivers - I was one in the past because I could not afford the car I wanted at the time not because I was fooling myself that my motoring was cheaper that way.
How is a company car driver fooling themselves? The very car I’m referring to as OP of this post is a 2022 M3 Long Range which is included as part of my remuneration in its entirety other than the £8.68 per month of BIK charges.
I suspect foolish would be me going out and buying a new car for cash, an outdated buying practice for what is a very heavily depreciating asset.
Really? So there is no cost for the car at all? Your employer gets and maintains the car for free so just gives it to you for free with unlimited mileage? A £56k car for absolutely free. Wow, I would really like to be the person negotiating your renumeration with you if you think that is how it works. Of course there is a cost, and I would be surprised if there was not a cash equivalent offered by your employer if you forgo the company car. As it stands, the provision of the car forms part of your renumeration so there is inherently a cost to you, as there is when you use any other part of your renumeration.
It ay still indeed make sense to drive to the alps. And you may prefer it. But you are indeed fooling yourself if you think it is free for you.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
zikomo wrote:
userscott wrote:
zikomo wrote:
I buy cars brand new for cash and then drive them until they are unreliable. Should I therefore regard every mile I use the car for as "free" as I have already paid for the car? For sure the total cost per mile is a great deal less than for those who are leasing, but the logic seems to be lost for those who lease. Especially company car drivers - I was one in the past because I could not afford the car I wanted at the time not because I was fooling myself that my motoring was cheaper that way.
How is a company car driver fooling themselves? The very car I’m referring to as OP of this post is a 2022 M3 Long Range which is included as part of my remuneration in its entirety other than the £8.68 per month of BIK charges.
I suspect foolish would be me going out and buying a new car for cash, an outdated buying practice for what is a very heavily depreciating asset.
Really? So there is no cost for the car at all? Your employer gets and maintains the car for free so just gives it to you for free with unlimited mileage? A £56k car for absolutely free. Wow, I would really like to be the person negotiating your renumeration with you if you think that is how it works. Of course there is a cost, and I would be surprised if there was not a cash equivalent offered by your employer if you forgo the company car. As it stands, the provision of the car forms part of your renumeration so there is inherently a cost to you, as there is when you use any other part of your renumeration.
It ay still indeed make sense to drive to the alps. And you may prefer it. But you are indeed fooling yourself if you think it is free for you.
Yes, you are right, I'm fooling myself. Thank you for your valued contribution to this thread.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
zikomo wrote:
But you are indeed fooling yourself if you think it is free for you.
My Tesla is a company car from my company... The cost is £450/month including servicing, tyres, breakdown 1st year's insurance, plus VAT. Half the VAT can be claimed back, and the rest is against tax. BiK for me is £0 (for various reasons).
Meanwhile, the last 7000 miles have personally also cost me nowt as we have 5.6kW of solar panels and a 7kW battery - I charge during the day and any extra grid power used goes against the surplus exported on other days. The Zappi charge point was also installed for free as part of the lease deal. And because we got such a good deal, I built in extra annual mileage to allow for a ski trip.
Looking at Tesla supercharger pricing it's around E0.52/unit. In other words a complete 0-100% charge is around E44, meaning around E0.176/mile, assuming reduced winter range of 250 miles. That adds up to just under E150 each way in charging fees - that's 4 stops with 9 minutes at Wokingham, 37 minutes at Folkestone eurotunnel (where I'd be stopping anyway), then 49 minutes 206 miles further in Champagne (just when I'd be needing a wee, followed by the next 38 minute wee at Aire de Jura 145 miles on. That would give an arrival at Samoens with 30% - a quick 10 minutes charge at Geneva Sud would boost that to over 60%.
And my back-of-a-fag-packet figures may be a little high - ABRP reckons the total cost for all those charges is E91!
possible, but would not do that. 1,5-2 hours of driving and half an hour charging. Charging cost will exceed regular fuel costs, and trip will be slower. of course, to buy or rent regular car, when you only have M3, is not an option, but this seems to me more like a tesla fan boy adventure trip with M3 somewhere distant, this time skiing, than going to ski using a tesla as a transportation.
i'm a fan of driving to ski resorts, and from where I live Austria is 1000 miles and France/Italy is 1400 miles. Diesel engine VW Multivan or an estate covers 400-450 miles at a speed of 80-120, is fast to fill up, and there are no queues at the pump or pumps not working at all.
It costs me approx €20 for 200 miles of range at a high speed charger. A fraction of that charging from home.
Please explain how your diesel is cheaper? My Diesel estate was still more expensive when the diesel price was 50% cheaper than what it is now.
And that’s not factoring in the maintenance cost on the car which is much reduced on an EV.
Yes the charging time is longer but we all know that.
And there are now lots of high speed chargers in Europe beyond the Tesla network.
Have you actually done this journey in an EV or are you just guessing?
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
ski3 wrote:
@BobinCH, unsure of status (I'll edit out if inappropriate) as I'm not ev driver, but when in villaroger, nearby the route up to Tignes, noticed a Tesla charge point in the village there https://chargemap.com/mineral-lodge.html which may offer a closer option if publicly available. Very nice place for lunch if at that timing too (you'll need to be sharp on opening time as most skiers from LA 2000 heading down there are of the same mind) you've only got the climb up through St Foy and on to Tignes at about 20 kms total then to destination.
That’s a 22KW charger. Fine for an overnight but no use on a journey - you want min 150KW, ideally 300KW.
I can no longer use Tesla Superchargers but there is no shortage of fast chargers on the way to the Alps and the number of available chargers is always visible
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
BobinCH wrote:
ski3 wrote:
@BobinCH, unsure of status (I'll edit out if inappropriate) as I'm not ev driver, but when in villaroger, nearby the route up to Tignes, noticed a Tesla charge point in the village there https://chargemap.com/mineral-lodge.html which may offer a closer option if publicly available. Very nice place for lunch if at that timing too (you'll need to be sharp on opening time as most skiers from LA 2000 heading down there are of the same mind) you've only got the climb up through St Foy and on to Tignes at about 20 kms total then to destination.
That’s a 22KW charger. Fine for an overnight but no use on a journey - you want min 150KW, ideally 300KW.
Perhaps suitable for someone on a more relaxed schedule as it's within 50mtrs of piste and the chairlift entry to LA 2000 if a day skiing on arrival was attractive. Charge all day while skiing LA then easy run after traffic clears up to Tignes etc for check in.
After all it is free
After all it is free
BobinCH wrote:
kosmoz wrote:
possible, but would not do that. 1,5-2 hours of driving and half an hour charging. Charging cost will exceed regular fuel costs, and trip will be slower. of course, to buy or rent regular car, when you only have M3, is not an option, but this seems to me more like a tesla fan boy adventure trip with M3 somewhere distant, this time skiing, than going to ski using a tesla as a transportation.
i'm a fan of driving to ski resorts, and from where I live Austria is 1000 miles and France/Italy is 1400 miles. Diesel engine VW Multivan or an estate covers 400-450 miles at a speed of 80-120, is fast to fill up, and there are no queues at the pump or pumps not working at all.
It costs me approx €20 for 200 miles of range at a high speed charger. A fraction of that charging from home.
Please explain how your diesel is cheaper? My Diesel estate was still more expensive when the diesel price was 50% cheaper than what it is now.
And that’s not factoring in the maintenance cost on the car which is much reduced on an EV.
Yes the charging time is longer but we all know that.
And there are now lots of high speed chargers in Europe beyond the Tesla network.
Have you actually done this journey in an EV or are you just guessing?
either of us are right, depends on geography. Before this fuel price increase, chargers on motorways in Poland were super expensive, like 0,7eur per kw/h expensive. Poland is a country which I need to cross on the way to Alps. it could be more expensive now. Or not.
Not every EV is a tesla and has availability to use Tesla supercharger network with more fair prices, some EV charging points has wild prices. So wild, that cruising a 530d estate at 100mp/h was cheaper than catching wind pocket behind trucks with EV.
it is 0,56eur/kwh in France, right? So cost the same to charge tesla or fuel up a Passat with diesel engine.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
kosmoz wrote:
either of us are right, depends on geography. Before this fuel price increase, chargers on motorways in Poland were super expensive, like 0,7eur per kw/h expensive. Poland is a country which I need to cross on the way to Alps. it could be more expensive now. Or not.
Not every EV is a tesla and has availability to use Tesla supercharger network with more fair prices, some EV charging points has wild prices. So wild, that cruising a 530d estate at 100mp/h was cheaper than catching wind pocket behind trucks with EV.
it is 0,56eur/kwh in France, right? So cost the same to charge tesla or fuel up a Passat with diesel engine.
0.56E/kWh = 9c/km @ 6.4km/kWh (slightly worse economy that I typically achieve)
At 2E/L for Diesel (good luck averaging that on the motorway!), that means you need to achieve 22km/L for cost parity
Or, in miles terms, that's 63mpg. A BMW 530d @ 100mph isn't doing 63mpg. Your Passat, catching wind pockets behind trucks at 56mph might well be.
So, if you already own an EV (which was the perspective of the OP), driving it to the Alps is broadly cost neutral vs driving an internal combustion vehicle to the Alps. That's not allowing for the low cost charge you will start from home with (almost the equivalent of a "free" half tank of diesel). Based on my experience of EV ownership for 8 years, it is much cheaper in terms of servicing/consumables/other "per mile" costs.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
zikomo wrote:
userscott wrote:
zikomo wrote:
I buy cars brand new for cash and then drive them until they are unreliable. Should I therefore regard every mile I use the car for as "free" as I have already paid for the car? For sure the total cost per mile is a great deal less than for those who are leasing, but the logic seems to be lost for those who lease. Especially company car drivers - I was one in the past because I could not afford the car I wanted at the time not because I was fooling myself that my motoring was cheaper that way.
How is a company car driver fooling themselves? The very car I’m referring to as OP of this post is a 2022 M3 Long Range which is included as part of my remuneration in its entirety other than the £8.68 per month of BIK charges.
I suspect foolish would be me going out and buying a new car for cash, an outdated buying practice for what is a very heavily depreciating asset.
Really? So there is no cost for the car at all? Your employer gets and maintains the car for free so just gives it to you for free with unlimited mileage? A £56k car for absolutely free. Wow, I would really like to be the person negotiating your renumeration with you if you think that is how it works. Of course there is a cost, and I would be surprised if there was not a cash equivalent offered by your employer if you forgo the company car. As it stands, the provision of the car forms part of your renumeration so there is inherently a cost to you, as there is when you use any other part of your renumeration.
It ay still indeed make sense to drive to the alps. And you may prefer it. But you are indeed fooling yourself if you think it is free for you.
Just to add to this that there are/were extremely generous Capital Allowances available to companies purchasing EVs. I calculated this as being worth approx £6k to me (personally) when my company bought our Tesla 3.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@iainm, Simple maths - each mile you use your car for costs you £450/number of miles drive each month. You absolutely got a bargain assuming there is no milage limitation and the £450 is pre-tax. And it may be both cheaper and/or more convenient for you to drive to the alps vs. flying. But the car still has a cost/mile.
As does my old banger bought from new 12 years ago. In our model we buy a new car every 6 years or so, after six years that car moves from being the family wagon to being my shooting/fishing/skiing workhorse (with less milage/year) which I try and get another 6 years out of. I calculate the cost/mile over the total milage each car does, compare to cost/mile for a lease car, and it always comes out cheaper. With the added benefit that I always have an old car to use off-road which I don't have to be precious about (they always end up fairly battered with scratches and dents). As opposed to my friends with lease cars who are often unwilling to drive their "off-road" cars anywhere the least bit rough for fear of penalty charges at the end of the lease. I assume zero value at the end of my usage, although there is residual value (one of my kids is driving the oldest old car right now for example).
We are currently waiting for a fully electric XC90 (as it is the best 7 seater in my view) to come out and it will be interesting to see if the dynamic between buying new and leasing changes. I suspect that it might.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
snowdave wrote:
it is 0,56eur/kwh in France, right? So cost the same to charge tesla or fuel up a Passat with diesel engine.
0.56E/kWh = 9c/km @ 6.4km/kWh (slightly worse economy that I typically achieve)
At 2E/L for Diesel (good luck averaging that on the motorway!), that means you need to achieve 22km/L for cost parity
Or, in miles terms, that's 63mpg. A BMW 530d @ 100mph isn't doing 63mpg. Your Passat, catching wind pockets behind trucks at 56mph might well be.
So, if you already own an EV (which was the perspective of the OP), driving it to the Alps is broadly cost neutral vs driving an internal combustion vehicle to the Alps. That's not allowing for the low cost charge you will start from home with (almost the equivalent of a "free" half tank of diesel). Based on my experience of EV ownership for 8 years, it is much cheaper in terms of servicing/consumables/other "per mile" costs.
LOL, you are claiming 16kwh/100km electricity consumption on motorway, loaded, in winter time
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
kosmoz wrote:
snowdave wrote:
it is 0,56eur/kwh in France, right? So cost the same to charge tesla or fuel up a Passat with diesel engine.
0.56E/kWh = 9c/km @ 6.4km/kWh (slightly worse economy that I typically achieve)
At 2E/L for Diesel (good luck averaging that on the motorway!), that means you need to achieve 22km/L for cost parity
Or, in miles terms, that's 63mpg. A BMW 530d @ 100mph isn't doing 63mpg. Your Passat, catching wind pockets behind trucks at 56mph might well be.
So, if you already own an EV (which was the perspective of the OP), driving it to the Alps is broadly cost neutral vs driving an internal combustion vehicle to the Alps. That's not allowing for the low cost charge you will start from home with (almost the equivalent of a "free" half tank of diesel). Based on my experience of EV ownership for 8 years, it is much cheaper in terms of servicing/consumables/other "per mile" costs.
LOL, you are claiming 16kwh/100km electricity consumption on motorway, loaded, in winter time
Not sure why you’re laughing? Even if his consumption is double that it’s still cheaper.
In my Diesel estate BMW530D I would get approx 700km out of a tank of 70litres. At 2€ per litre that is approx 20€ per 100km.
As mentioned above my EV costs 0.33€ per kWh fast charging at Ionity chargers (I note Tesla is 1/3rd more expensive - equivalent to what I pay at other fast chargers). On a 83.7kWh battery best mileage in long motorway journey is circa 450km. Winter driving, car loaded with heater running its down to 350km. At 27€ to fill the battery that’s 7.7€ per 100km.
So almost 3 times more expensive in the Diesel car. And that’s not taking into account that my first 350km costs a fraction of that charged from home, there are some free chargers in my usual ski resort so I could get another 350km for free, much less break wear due to 90% regenerative braking, and minimal servicing costs.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@BobinCH, he's laughing because he has a very special BMW 530D which does 63mpg at 100mph.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Interestingly a quick look on Fuelly.com for the 530d, from a pool of 236 drivers suggests an average of 30 mpg. Assuming his car is a modern one, if not it’s closer to 27 mpg.
No, the answer is simple. This person is lying.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
yeah you'd be mad to do long journeys in an EV, especially in remote areas of the world
Over 1,000 miles in 24hrs
(John O’Groats to Lands End and THEN driving home!)
Nearly 1900 miles in 3 days.
And people still say electric cars can’t do big trips!
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Leonard Smalls wrote:
Meanwhile, the last 7000 miles have personally also cost me nowt as we have 5.6kW of solar panels and a 7kW battery
So which company installs solar panels and gives you a storage battery and replaces them when they fail, all for nowt??
Or is it just more dodgy cost/benefit analysis where the benefits are overblown and the true costs are ignored??
Just get yourself and your case on a plane and stop dragging your two-ton metal box (even if you are Tesla's No1 fanboy) halfway across the continent for a week on the snow!!
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
luigi wrote:
Leonard Smalls wrote:
Meanwhile, the last 7000 miles have personally also cost me nowt as we have 5.6kW of solar panels and a 7kW battery
So which company installs solar panels and gives you a storage battery and replaces them when they fail, all for nowt??
Or is it just more dodgy cost/benefit analysis where the benefits are overblown and the true costs are ignored??
Just get yourself and your case on a plane and stop dragging your two-ton metal box (even if you are Tesla's No1 fanboy) halfway across the continent for a week on the snow!!
If you’ve already installed it for your house energy needs the net cost for additional usage is pretty minimal. If he gets a flight his solar panel company won’t give him a refund.
What’s so difficult for you luddite’s to understand?
Meanwhile, the last 7000 miles have personally also cost me nowt as we have 5.6kW of solar panels and a 7kW battery
So which company installs solar panels and gives you a storage battery and replaces them when they fail, all for nowt??
Or is it just more dodgy cost/benefit analysis where the benefits are overblown and the true costs are ignored??
Just get yourself and your case on a plane and stop dragging your two-ton metal box (even if you are Tesla's No1 fanboy) halfway across the continent for a week on the snow!!
There's a 10 year guarantee, though I did research the panels/inverters/batteries beforehand to find out about their reliability...
And the panels/inverters/battery cost us £8800 about a year and a half ago; in that time our leccy bill is the minimum possible - £1/month. Previously we were paying around £50/month. And we've had 7000 miles of effectively free charging on the Tesla - either direct from panels/battery or from built up export payments.
So quick dodgy cost/benefit analysis: 18x£49 = £882, Current excess with supplier £430, cost to charge motor for 7000miles @250Wh/mile @£0.35/kWh = £612.50 Total - £1924.50. Or £1283/year at current leccy prices, so just under 7 years until payback.
And I have no intention of going on a plane for my probably 3 weeks in the snow; a relatively comfy 800 mile drive each way, with nice hotel and lovely Italian restaurant half way sounds much nicer to me than getting up at 4am to schlep to the airport, stand in a queue for ages, be herded about through security, find my plane is delayed, or cancelled, wait a bit more, finally squash into tiny seat with no legroom next to a smelly Farage-alike with red face, then queue at the other end, then pay someone E200 each way to drive me to the resort.
And the beauty is, it's my choice!
So you're welcome to sit there, with closed ears, making assumptions about what sort of fanboi I may or may not be; but you may be pleased to hear I'm not a Tesla one (though it's a perfectly good piece of kit, and fast!). I'm actually an unapologetic Moto Guzzi one, though I have no intention of strapping my skis and luggage on to make the journey on that.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@luigi, my solar install in 2011 cost me £11,800, as of today I have been paid via the FITS scheme £19,977.44
They are hard facts, nothing dodgy about that cost/benefit at all!! Hugely overblown benefit, I'm sure you'll agree
I cannot measure how much electricity I've saved *on top* of the above figures, but the past week of sunshine here in the UK my energy usage via the smart meter has been zero from 10am to about 8pm. I just wish I'd added a battery which I am now trying to do!
There is little point arguing here when you’re up against people driving 530Ds thinking they do 63 mpg at 100 mph.
Just earlier, somebody posted a link to a thread of the NC500 with barely £50 of energy costs for over 1000 miles of driving, but still, it’s not enough.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
nobody told 530d makes 63mpg. One year ago, when diesel was 1,2 eur it was cheaper to drive 530d touring at 160+ km/h than to drive a tesla and charge it for 0,70 e / kwh in Poland on motorway. Do the math.
Math now is different, diesel is 2e per liter, chargers network expanded, different charger networks competing and prices of kwh went down.
anyway, 63 is doable, just at different speeds. nevertheless, doing 60-62 mph you are still driving faster than most of EV's http://youtube.com/v/tisMPZeCHzI
After all it is free
After all it is free
Thanks, but we’ve already established the energy costs in an EV are around 1/3 for a trip to the Alps, and that efficiency in the EV vehicles is closer to 97% vs the average 40% in any ICE vehicle.
Besides, who the hell wants to sit in a dirty old 530 to the south of France.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
97% my ass is 100% energy in the grid from hydro/solar/wind/nuclear? nope, quite some of it is from burning coal/gas, which is far from 100%. High voltage energy grid efficiency is ~66%, around 34% is lost on the way from power plant to your socket. Then another % is lost in your charger, you add 50 kw/h to your electricity bill, but less than 50 kw/h goes to you battery. EV's is not about reducing CO2, it's about moving it out of living areas.
Tesla design is mazda from 2000's, assembly quality of a dacia or lada, that "dirty old" 530d is better in every measurable way except acceleration. Skiing is not a cheap activity to begin with. To travel at 100+ mph in comfort and silent, none existent battery range anxiety, save a lot of time and it's only 200-300 eur extra per car for the whole skiing trip - that's a bargain. Pack you poo-poo, get behind the wheel and drive, no route planning, no calculating where to charge, how much to charge etc. Want to save some - avoid filling on motorways, drive out 1-5 km to the nearby town and it will be 0,15eur cheaper.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Sorry, but you're just rambling on now mate.
If I want to drive a non-EV car there, I'll take the pick of those on my driveway - thank you for your input.
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
