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Blackouts for Saunas & Ski Lifts this Coming Winter.

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62230201
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Kenzie wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62230201

Well that aged badly – Nord Stream 1 is back on.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Nord Stream is now a toy.
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Bolton Valley, USA estimates that their windmill generates enough power so that it would be about 12% of the total needed for the whole ski resort if it was all directly powered. It would take about 8 of them to power the whole place.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@chocksaway, I *think* the water could be used for cooling, but if warm river water was used the output after reactor cooling is so hot that it would impact the environment. Very much open to correction, though.


Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Sat 23-07-22 17:41; edited 1 time in total
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@achilles, I think you are right, it was only a marginal effect on output.

Bet they have some big goldfish round the outlet if the ones in the Foss in York during my Yoof were anything to go by. (Twas when York had a power station in the city centre and we 'ad to lick roads clean with our tongues)
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
achilles wrote:
@chocksaway, I *think* the water could be used for cooling, but if warm river water was used the output after reactor cooling is so hot that it would impact the environment. Very muck open to correction, though.


I think that's correct, I expect that there will be max temp limits on the river water that they can discharge due to adverse environmental impacts. Also a secondary minor effect would be that with higher condenser temperatures the output power from the steam turbines may be somewhat reduced.

As an aside I think I'm correct in stating that in the UK at least one fossil fueled power station used the warm water discharged from it to heat greenhouses for growing tomatoes. Madeye-Smiley


Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Sun 24-07-22 8:24; edited 1 time in total
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
chocksaway wrote:
and we 'ad to lick roads clean with our tongues)


You had Roads? Shocked Decadent luxury.

Now, when I was a lad................ wink
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@Alastair Pink, and didn't the Battersea Power station heat local domestic heating?
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Scarlet wrote:
Kenzie wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62230201

Well that aged badly – Nord Stream 1 is back on.

Which is exactly what I would expect, given that when it is on Europe is paying Russia hundreds of millions of dollars a day.

It is a much a greater economic weapon to simply stop supplying for random odd weeks in the middle of winter, with no guarantee of resumption. Sad Limited financial hit but would cause chaos across the continent. There is limited capacity to stockpile: hence the EU advice to significantly reduce gas consumption, for which it must be doubtful if some countries can comply.
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
France has 29 out of 56 nuclear power stations out of action. There is a lack of 18GW of generating capacity. Talk is of a 120kp/h autoroute limit coming in and air con and heating in companies being limited. There is probably some margin here, our office could be a bit warmer and still comfortable to work.

Government spokesman Olivier Veran talk people to turn down the aircon in their homes if they went on holiday and to unplug "everything".
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@Alastair Pink, 're Tom's, I think it was Eggborough, now demolished.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@chocksaway, it was Drax, I worked there in early 90’s on the FGD project
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@Markymark29, Ta, I knew it was one or t'other. Just couldn't remember the greenhouses at Drax, we used to fly over it every day to get back to Finingley.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
The AWRE use to supply steam heating to Aldermaston and Tadley villages, not sure what was actually generating the steam though Toofy Grin
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Peter S wrote:
Little Martin wrote:
Anyone got any recommendations for a high resort at Christmas that has a good electricity record?

Not high, but there shouldn’t be any power shortages at Glenshee. It’s all off grid.


Glenshee is currently in dispute with HMRC about the changes to red diesel rules brought in by HM Government - on off the intentions was to stop the burning of red diesel in generators to get cheaper electricity than being charged by the grid supply. Except places like Glenshee have no alternative, it’s not just a few miles to the nearest power line, its tens of miles to sufficient grid capacity. Potentially an existential threat to Glenshee. Shocked
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@haggishunter, I wasn't aware that the change to red diesel rules was going to affect ski centres but it looks like, in addition to Glenshee which as you say generates all its power with diesel generators, other Scottish ski areas will suffer increased costs for the operation of their pistebashers. Sad https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/aberdeen-aberdeenshire/4067036/glenshee-ski-red-diesel-costs-soar/
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
under a new name wrote:
@chocksaway, and is a strong argument that some organisation and functions ought to be state owned and directed.


All the french have done is take the cost from users to tax payers, people could save a huge amount of money by turning down the thermostat and putting some warmer clothes on, using the tax payer to cover the extra cost hardly encourages this which would help reduce demand and possible supply issues, reducing demand is also climate friendly by reducing emissions
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Curbing the environmental effects of the skiing industry and the endless growth of resorts would be an overall good thing.

Apart from one or two lifts to help people learn, people should have to skin up and earn their turns anyway.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@Ionizingskin, I don't think skiing is a big problem in context ...
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https://www.srf.ch/news/international/energiepolitik-frankreich-abgestellte-atomkraftwerke-stuerzen-frankreich-in-energiekrise

https://www.derbund.ch/touristiker-weibeln-in-bern-fuer-lockerungen-bei-strommangel-533568455960
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
ELECTRICITY PRICES RISE

This is how much artificial snow costs our ski resorts

The extreme increase in prices is hitting the ski resorts massively and thus all winter sports enthusiasts. The production of artificial snow will be more expensive than ever before. Many cable car operators are therefore hoping for help from politicians.

Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked

A calculation example: In February 2021, a ski resort would have had to pay 351,000 euros for electricity at a tariff of 39 euros per megawatt hour. Today, at a megawatt-hour price of 270 euros, 2.43 million euros would be due.

Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked

https://www.krone.at/2781354


Austria

Lift Tickets Price increases

https://kaernten.orf.at/stories/3168603/



Reminder how much Ski Areas rely on Snowmaking


http://youtube.com/v/RjIwTWR36mM
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Yes, there carnt be many commercial ski areas left in Europe that are not reliant on snow making ?
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Without major changes to the drought conditions currently dessicating so much of France there'll certainly be no artificial snowmaking.
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Cue price hikes for the high resorts and those served by natural lakes for snow making.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Water extraction from lakes could well be prohibited. And one wonders how the heavy use of hydro power will fare, in France. There are many small hydro stations along the alpine rivers - even relatively small rivers.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
https://www.brgm.fr/fr/actualite/communique-presse/nappes-eau-souterraine-au-1er-aout-2022

Groundwater levels are generally low - very low in some areas.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Let's hope and pray that it's a cold winter...
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@pam w, Very true. I just hope France gets all/most of its nukes back on line for the winter, otherwise non essential electricity use may be cut back.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Austrian electricity price index trend




It is Quite possible that many Busineses will not be able to operate this winter without massive Goverment intervetion..

Huge Increases Prices will become just unaffordable for Tourists when they have their own cost of living problems in their own Countrys.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
eightbobnote wrote:
Let's hope and pray that it's a cold winter...


I actually think we want a medium winter. A cold winter would probably be dry and we actually want loads of fronts coming through to provide plenty of precipitation
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
i read somewhere online today, it was an article about the current water level of lake como, that italy only had 30% of its normal snowfall last season. am not sure if that is correct or not, but if so i would assume they were able to use snowmaking to top it up.
if unable to next season, and there are similar snow levels, then it really will be a disastrous season.

you really have to feel sorry for any alpine business at the moment, after the last few seasons have been tough for a lot of them, and i would assume this could be the last straw for some.

i don't know how much financial support businesses will get, if any, if they are affected by any constraints on power use by various governments if choices have to be made to keep homes/businesses going or high energy dependant leisure activities??

selfishly, i am hoping that if any restrictions are to be put in place, then the decisions are made before the latter part of November so as i can cancel our Christmas trip without losing any money Sad Sad
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
terrygasson wrote:
i read somewhere online today, it was an article about the current water level of lake como, that italy only had 30% of its normal snowfall last season. am not sure if that is correct or not, but if so i would assume they were able to use snowmaking to top it up. if unable to next season, and there are similar snow levels, then it really will be a disastrous season.

I can believe that. I was in the Aosta valley in March, and the snow situation was really bad. The instructor said it was the worst he had seen, and he was local to the area. There was no snow at all outside of the piste, which was maintained with snowmaking, but still only a few cm deep. The cause of this was a drought throughout February and March, which affected much of the Alps. This meant that, subsequently, there was less melt water to replenish the lakes and waterways in the spring. (North) Tirol has not suffered quite so much because there has been more rain over the summer, but many of the lakes and rivers are lower than normal for this time of year. Unfortunately, those weather systems don’t always hit the Italian side, and northern Italy has had a dire water situation all summer.
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BTW I think a mod should change the thread title. Blackout has negative connotations and is considered latent racist language. It should be fixed to "Power Outages".
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@davidof, really? Doesn’t it just mean when the power goes off and for example lights go out? Is that racist?
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Markymark29 wrote:
@davidof, really? Doesn’t it just mean when the power goes off and for example lights go out? Is that racist?


Agree, I may be ignorant but blackout for is power outages, curtains and the second world war. By extension a brownout must also be racist?
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@Markymark29, @stevew, he's trolling, as usual
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@holidayloverxx, ah ok!
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
davidof wrote:
BTW I think a mod should change the thread title. Blackout has negative connotations and is considered latent racist language. It should be fixed to "Power Outages".


Maybe take a break from the crack pipe?
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TBF blackout and brownout are associated with negative events but most snowHead would view a whiteout as a positive event.
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