 Poster: A snowHead
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Last month I flew to Munich, rented a car, and drove to the Dolomites and back. Unlike here in the US, traffic is so nice and orderly, people follow the rules of the road. I skied 5 days in Austria (Kitzski, Skiwelt, and Saalbach) and 6 days at Dolomiti Superski. The lift queues are disorganized, inefficient, and often stressful. What is up with that?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@blueroom, motorways have lanes, rules and police. Lift q behaviour is the inhabitants' natural state
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Not so many unrestricted sections of autobahn between the airport and Austria but there are some, plenty driving at 160km/h (100mph) and faster. Locals are apt to get grumpy with folk who stick in middle lane etc. This doesnt apply everywhere, for example the 4 lane section of autostrada between Modena & Bologna features much weaving in & out at high speeds, you really need to keep your wits about you. Plenty of other similar places too.
I think "queuing" for ski lifts has become a bit less anarchistic in recent years maybe I am wrong. One thing that often surprises new arrivals in countries with a Germanic culture is that the concept of queuing doesnt much exist, there is little embarrassment about pushing in (Corona might have changed this a bit) which can cause a lot of unnecessary stress at times.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I did 2500 miles round Europe in March and I find that driving on the continent a pleasure compared to driving down the M1 ..mainly because of MUCH less taffic and more awareness of other traffic and you dont get as many lanes blocked by phalanxes of overtaking lorries ..I get more stress driving sheffield to Dover than driving Val di Fassa to Moutiers which is twice the distance...and I never really have too many problems at the lift queue
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Driving to France in February I was struck by the attention to signalling when changing lanes by virtually everyone (except the Belgians, of course) - much better than the UK. Also how quiet the autoroutes were on a Sunday. Worst lift queue chaos I have endured was in Killington, USA.
Only problem driving was when my credit card was refused at a service station trying to but coffee. Tried my emergency card with the same result. Now needed to get off autoroute, pay for hotel and buy diesel with no working card! Eventually managed but it took 6 attempts and two card machines at hotel to succeed. Rand card company who said problem was in France, not with them, and no, my wife had not spent up the limit in my absence!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I drove around Napoli and the Amalfi coast over the weekend, don't be fooled by the northerners, there's plenty of horrendous driving in Italy 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@blueroom, it's a long time since I drove in Germany - standards of driving must have improved. I remember cars driving barely inches apart at very high speed in the outside lanes of motorways.
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@blueroom, You wouldn't think driving was good if you had gone any further south.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| mountainaddict wrote: |
only to then continously find the obligatory BMW, Audi or Mercedes about 1 metre behind  - sometimes flashing their headlights. |
They do sometimes get stopped and fined by the police for doing this.
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@blueroom, what I get from this is that driving in the US is really, really bad. What is the system for driving instruction, tests etc? I gather from US TV shows that children are permitted to drive. Is this true.
European driving is very different from country to country, mostly it is very well behaved and polite, but there are exceptions. For example on an Italian motorway if you look in your mirror and see a car 7 or 8 metres behind you. Do not be fooled. There is another between you and that car and you are staring through the intervening cars windscreens. Of course here in the UK we drive on the left - except on motorways and some towns like Birmingham where we drive on the right.
Lift queues can be chaotic with children often trying to sneak underneath you and people pushing and barging. I find this to be particularly the case in Austria, but in Bulgaria the queues are very well behaved with members of the queues being allowed to leave to buy coffee and return to their place (without even having to offer to bring coffee back to the other members.)
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You know it makes sense.
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Amusing graffiti on the M6 southbound around Lancaster to Preston recently - succesive bridges berating Middle Lane Morons asking why are they so stupid and whay they can't stay left except to pass. Of course the morons probably aren't even noticing the bridges.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Quote: |
there's plenty of horrendous driving in Italy
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Two rules I find particularly useful from driving in Italy:
1/ The minor road always has priority. Be prepared to brake hard at every junction.
2/ Camper vans will stop, start, pull over, turn left, turn right. In fact do almost anything with no notice, no apparent motivation and certainly no signalling.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@mountainaddict, plenty of that, basically stay out of the outside lane unless your car is happy cruising at 140km/h at least, which can be pretty disconcerting if you are not used to it. What does take some getting used to is driving at 160 km/h then finding someone wizzing past doing well over 200 km/h! You have to keep a very close eye on your mirrors as cars can approach very quickly. Complete opposite to urban areas where most people keep to the 30 km/h (20mph) limit and give way to bikes and pedestrians, which would cause a complete frothing fit in the Telegraph or Daily Mail.
The police are generally more interested in tailgating than speeding but not many checks
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I don't know - I've found the queue to the tolls just after Lyon as manic as any ski lift
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
The big issue I had was having to overtake very slow juggernauts on uphills in the Fiat 500
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 Very scary. I once drove through London to Dover and then on to the Black Forest on a Honda 50 cc bike with boyfriend on the back. At one point, minding my own business on the inside lane of German motorway there was a huge truck thundering on from a slip road and he just didn't look like he was going to give way to me, and rapid braking was inadvisable on a light, heavily loaded bike - so in my panic I pulled out between the two lanes and was sandwiched. The scariest thing ever and my boyfriend was still shaking that night. Looking back, I must have been mad, but we were young. And poor. Probably the closest I've ever come to death on a road.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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the best thing I have bought for driving on the right was one of those little convex mirrors that stick on your normally nearside mirror which gives you a better veiw of what is coming to overtake
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@blueroom,
I’m trying to work out how you had to deal with lift queues in March? My time in Europe (I understand it’s a big place) in March saw no waiting for lifts at all (aside from waiting for first lift in the morning).
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@sbooker,
The large French resorts were mainly purpose built & the lifts put in to try avoiding bottlenecks.
I haven't been to the resorts in question, but have been to a few that grew 'organically', and they could have some awful bottlenecks.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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At weekends in particular, our experience of Italian lift queues is of virtual chaos and loud kerfuffle, but all in a good humoured way.
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On the driving side, a key point is that most of the driving is likely to be at weekends, when roads are quieter. We just drove back from Austria over Sunday and Monday (stopping overnight in southern Belgium), and there was a major difference between the amount of traffic on the Sunday, compared to driving at rush hour time on Monday morning
On the lift queue side, a factor is that you have kids queuing (sic). Going back to the adjectives from the OP:
Disorganised. There's a case for that, in that no-one is organising the queue, and there will be skiers with different priorities (e.g. staying on the same lift as their mates v. getting up the mountain as quickly as possible), so there will be disorganisation
Inefficient. Yes, in that there's no-one ensure lifts are fully occupied, and without that, you get the incompetent, unaware or selfish people who don't fill each lift
Stressful. Depends what you make of it. I can get grumpy that people aren't filling the lifts, which is adding to the delays, and overall reducing the amount of skiing time. Or I can relax and not worry about it. Or there's the option of competitive queuing
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
I skied 5 days in Austria (Kitzski, Skiwelt, and Saalbach) and 6 days at Dolomiti Superski. The lift queues are disorganized, inefficient, and often stressful.
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I have skied in Saalbach (which is famously queue-free) throughout the season, including March, and the only time I might have encountered a small queue was during peak weeks, such as New Year, Fasching, and possibly one or two school holiday weeks, and then only at particular bottleneck lifts - and not, according to my recollection during March (unless it was Fasching).
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FAQ
