Would I notice much difference with bought vs rented intermediate skis?

A snowHead

Hi,

I've been on 7-8 skiing holidays so far (mainly once per year, in the French alps). I've had lessons most holidays, I'm comfortable on reds and will take on easy blacks, and am (slowly!) learning to carve. I bought my own boots a couple of years ago, and they were a great investment - the level of comfort & fit compared to hire boots was amazing. I'm now at the point of wondering whether it's also worth buying my own skis. I know it probably doesn't make economic sense unless I'm doing more than one holiday per year, but if I throw the economic argument away, I'm interested in whether I'd actually notice the difference in use.

For reference, my last holiday the 'intermediate' skis the hire shop gave me were Elan Elements, which retail ~£200. A crude google for 'best intermediate skis 2022' throws up things like the the Blizzard Rustler 9 (£350-400), Nordica Enforcer 94 (~£400), or the Salomon Stance 96 (£400-450). I'm not saying I'd necessarily buy one of those, but in general terms, how much difference do you think I'd see going from a pair of rentals that cost ~£200 to buy vs bought ones costing £350-£500?

And I guess the perennial question is whether I should be looking at intermediate skis now, or going for more advanced ones with the aim of working up to them. Again, I don't have a solid understanding of how much difference there is between a 'intermediate' and 'advanced' ski, and whether someone who is looking to progress from red runs to black over the next few holidays is better going with an intermediate or an advanced ski.

Thanks for any insight!!

A snowHead

I remember thinking I should perhaps splash out on a better quality flute - till my flute teacher took my instrument to check the high notes were OK. She made it sound like Pan was playing it, down in the reeds by the river. So I spent the money on more lessons, instead.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Oh I have no illusions that buying skis will magically make me an awesome skier, but I'm intrigued to know whether it's a difference I'd notice. Several friends have said they noticed a difference when they bought, but it's hard to know whether that's just a placebo effect, hence the question!!

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The big plus re. owning imv is the familiarity of getting back on your own skis. Everyone is a touch rusty after an extended period of being off of the snow. With your own kit, you know that it's just a few runs before you're back in the swing. Whereas with hired kit, the question lingers 'is it me, or are these skis not working for me?'

I've known mates on hired kit battle with the wrong skis for a couple of days before swapping them in for others. Ski time is too precious for me, to mess about with that possibility.

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My thoughts would be:

Hiring:

- It is a lottery, depending on what the shop has
- You have no control over the servicing eg. Edge Angles
- You can choose skis, depending on conditions
- You can exchange them if you don't like them and usually get a mid week edge/wax

Owning:

- You have consistency ie. if you pick the right skis, you have no issues regarding getting used to them/whether you will like them
- You need to pick wisely, preferably after demos - so looking at a ski that suits your weight/ability/aggression/style
- You need to be honest about where you actually ski - so if you are 90% of the time On Piste, get a Piste ski which makes improving your carving easier
- If going All Mountain - go with the width that matches how much Off Piste you actually do
- Damage and theft are a bigger issue
- You certainly want to build headroom into your skis, so they will "grow" with you as you improve
- If flying, you are lugging them about airports
- You avoid the "Hiring Scramble"

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

I've never felt very confident about "demo-ing" skis. When I've tried a few, I'd be hard pressed to give any very clear analysis of which I liked, and why. Like listening to a few recordings of a Brandenburg Concerto. The one I like is the one I'm used to - and perhaps that's the key advantage of having your own skis. They may not really be particularly good, and an expert skier would find all sorts of fault with them. But they are the devil you know. When I bought an electric bike I did demo a few - then picked the one I liked the look of.

After all it is free

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The maths doesn’t stack up if you fly, together with servicing in the UK the costs are probably in excess of the higher quality ski hire charges.

My justification is that I know my owned skis and these match up with what I like to do with them.

My decision was based on what I didn’t like about various skis I had hired.

The main driver to buying them was because I was a little tired of dealing with French ski hire shops who seemed to want to palm me off with all sorts of tat regardless of the level of ski that I had booked, if I asked for a better, more specific ski I was greeted with a Gallic shrug.

I should add that there are some great ski hire shops out there, but you need to know where they are, and the location might not be ideal for you accommodation.

I did note on Ski Sunday that Chemmy promoted the green credentials of hiring skis in resorts, but imo this depends upon the quality of skis and service available from the ski hire shops.

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We have went back to hire skis
Ours were getting past their best
Lugging skis through airports and the odd occasions when they have been left off the flight I decided are not worth it.
Last three trips I have been on hire ones and been very happy.
You need to be honest with the hire shops re your ability and what you want to ski.
I have enjoyed having my own skis but cant be bothered with the faf now.
If you are know what you want along with the bindings you want go for it.

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

A snowHead

Hmm. OK, I'm beginning to come to the conclusion that I'd find value in having consistency from holiday to holiday, and not having to worry about whether the hire shop is going to have anything decent or not. But you've convinced me that I really going to need to go somewhere where I can chat things over with someone who knows their stuff, and will let me try various options out. If I wanted to do that in the UK (I'm in South Wales), I guess the only option would be to go to one of the snow domes that has a shop attached - I can see Milton Keynes has an Ellis Brigham. Time to send some emails & see what they offer in terms of tryouts!

A snowHead

@richstanton, are you skiing again this season?
If not, consider one of Octobertests snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Forget the financial side of the argument, it’s less than a round of drinks of a difference. Same for the logistics, if you’re taking a case then your waiting anyway.
Perhaps think about your preferred transfer options, if you like hire car then that’s worth thinking about, if you use companies, then they have your back.

If you want them & you think it’ll help you stepping onto the same skis every trip (regardless if it does or not) then go for it

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@richstanton,
@Tazz2bme, +1
@Jonny996, +1

Buying your first skis is not a logical decision, it's an emotional one, driven by the same thoughts that drive buying boots, I want to bring some consistency to the kit because I can't tell whether it's the kit or me causing me problems. Making the kit consistent allows you to concentrate on your skills.

In many ways it won't make much difference which skis are your first as long as you pitch your choice in the skill level range that the manufacturers define. All the manufacturers produce good skis in the upper beginner/ lower intermediate range. Plus they won't be the last skis that you buy. As you get better you will gain the knowledge to better assess your next choice based on ability, terrain, etc.

Buy your first set of skis, really get to know them, what they do well, what ok. and what badly.

The Elans in their advertising blurb are described as All-mountain which at 76mm waist they are not. If you liked them and they do what you want then buy them or similar.

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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

After all it is free

I would say short answer is no, as you say you are just starting to learn to carve.
Ski performance only really applies to when you are carving it I would have thought.
They all skid the same and when running flat, the stiffness is the main difference so rental or bought wouldn't matter.
When you have learned to carve, then you will notice huge differences so maybe wait until then.

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One major issue with finding the 'right' ski at your current level, is that you may not (yet) have enough experience to distinguish between the impact of snow conditions and the impact of different skis. If you try different skis on different days (or weeks), it's likely that the snow conditions will have a larger impact of your skiing than the skis. If you've stable weather (most likely not snowing, though continual dumps each day can also work), then it'd be viable to try different skis each day to compare them, but if the snow or temperature change noticeably from day to day, that will outweigh the difference in skis.

That said, just because it'll be hard to identify the 'right' ski, doesn't mea you won't benefit from the consistency of staying with one set of skis. However, if you're willing to forgo the economic argument, I'd say your money would be better spent on more (or individual) lessons, or on more ski trips

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@viv, yes I see it the same way @richstanton, doesn't know enough. Certainly not to be unkind or critical but that we've all been in the same place and perfectly normal to go through this step in discovering where you go from here.

A good point about trying different ski is how to judge them, especially if conditions vary. I know now what I want, also able to reasonably specify to someone what would be a good ski to try. Not to be boastful, just from skiing with kids, families, and groups I've organised, you get to see each of them at different levels and through these formative years of building skills at differential pace one to another. Also it's very easy to see a compelling urgency to "lead" someone into more tuition whereas others are very able to progress with significantly less and constant input.

Value, certainly, in using a ski that you can build confidence in. Along with finding your own ability to stretch the ski towards it's performance edges, the process will allow you to see with more focus what you really want a ski to do. Then is the logical buy point as you'll bring your own expanded view to match with a new ski.

That more makes the question about what is suitable to aim for right now, either hire or possibly buy doesn't influence that too much. Well not compared to getting something genuinely useful which allows your ski ability to build. Then you'll start to more fully define the atributes you do and don't want.

These are the sort of skis you might consider:

Rossignol React 6 Compact: https://www.rossignol.com/uk/rajlk02-000.html

Dynastar Speed 363: https://www.glisshop.co.uk/ski-set-bindings/dynastar/alpine-ski-set-speed-363-xpress-bindings28068993

or possibly Speed 563: https://www.glisshop.co.uk/ski-set-bindings/dynastar/alpine-ski-set-speed-563-konect-bindings31318534

Head V Shape V4 XL: https://www.head.com/en_GB/v-shape-v4-xl-15.html - If you want to try something a bit wider, but still has a pronounced carving shape

You know it makes sense.

@richstanton, I love having my own skis. Whilst they are technically not great, they are fun, and I know how they ski.
I also really enjoy servicing them as part of the build up to getting away. Plus (whilst I’m definitely not the best at this), they are better edged and waxed than any rental skis I’ve had. And, I can only blame myself if they’re not right…
Agreed, if conditions are not right for them, I’m likely to struggle, but this would happen with rental skis too unless you change them every day.
For me the problem with having my own skis is that it made me want more; better skis, skis for different conditions, n+1 (see the rules)
I mentioned oktobertest previously, but what about signing up for the EoSB where you can test skis in resort?

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

The great thing about buying your own skis is that you can quickly start to work out what you need in your next pair. You can also spend time working out what kind of bag you are going to put them in - numerous threads on SH’s with loads of advice. Then you can spend time working out what kit you are going to need to service and tune them - similar advice on SHs. You might need something to transport them on your car as well, so again lots of SHs advice available. Then once you have bought all this kit you have got the justification for buying your next pair in order to get full value. Then the cycle continues and you are well on your way to meeting the N+1 rule on the number of pairs of skis one should own. Probably a good idea to start making space in the garage now.

A snowHead

I hire personally as a 1-2 week/yr adventurer. Cost, convenience, flexability... I'd need two pairs (at least) if I were to buy to suit whatever I'm up to on a given day, so with the luggage fees its cheaper to hire for me. Most resorts have good options in terms of what is available, might just have to order in advance sometimes, and they often let you switch during the week.

A snowHead

I like the idea that this is the first step to learning what I like in a pair of Skis - i.e. intentionally buying skis with particular characteristics, and seeing how they perform year on year.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

@richstanton, Ok, I'll do my best.

I chose brands that I have enjoyed in the past or own now. I was looking for Intermediate Skis, that had some headroom, were reasonably substantial and would be forgiving and fun.

Rossignol React 6 Compact

A ski that has reviewed well and replaced the Pursuit range, which were also well received. 14m Radius in a 170 looks about right. Here is ProSkiLab's assessment (it takes a while to load): https://www.proskilab.co.uk/h/men-s-intermediate/ski-reviews-2020-rossignol-react-r6-compact/685

Dynastar Speed 563

These replaced the Speed Zone range - which were exceedingly good. They should have stability and comfort, while not being too demanding. Will certainly grow with you. They have a 14m Radius in a 170. There is also a Speed 363, but at your weight and pushing for controlled speed, the 563 are probably better, especially as they will give more headroom. I think the only difference between the 363 (Lower Intermediate) and 563 (Upper Intermediate) is the binding - where the binding on the latter (Konect system) suits heavier skiers and gives better performance; whereas the Xpress system is more focussed on ease of use.

https://skikitinfo.com/whats-new/2122/dynastar-s-line-skis/

Head V Shape V4 XL

I threw this into the mix, as it's badged as an All Mountain Ski - but due to its pronounced shape would work very well On Piste, while giving a bit of extra width for going off the side. Despite being 84 under foot, it has a 14.5m radius @ 170

Here is ProSkiLab's review: https://www.proskilab.co.uk/h/men-s-intermediate/ski-reviews-2020-head-v-shape-4-xl/679

Once you have some models to look at, do some internet research for reviews and see if the characteristics appeal.

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If you asked me 15-20 years ago I'd have definitely said get in there and buy something. Read every equipment article you can, test some pairs if possible and wade in. Now with too many pairs to mention on my rack and and a huge amount of time each year spent prepping and deciding what to take on each of my 4 weeks, I might be tempted to say keep hiring.

There are 2 things here. Servicing properly takes time, lots of it, or lots of money to get someone else to do it. Also save yourself all the carriage and handling involved.

If you read every article and learn what all the skis are good at (the information is out there), you can pretty much go into the hire shops and pick something that will work there and then for the conditions - knowledge is king. You can usually go back in a day or 2 and change to something else, if you picked the wrong thing or the conditions change a lot.

I've had to hire something on occasion, even when I have some of my skis with me. I had a week in Austria early 2020 and took a mid fat set, and got serious boiler plate on every piste all day long and the the off-piste was like an ice-rink made of 6" high ripples ! So went into a shop looked at the rack, picked out a set of Head Supershape Ispeeds and these skis were serviced to be properly sharp. Suddenly I was actually having fun on boiler plate, instead of skidding in great slides of shame.

On the other hand again, I've loved deeply every pair I have owned, and love looking at them every time I pass them in the garage Laughing

After all it is free

Whether you hire, buy blind or go to a shop - the info you glean on here will be useful.

If hiring/buying from a shop, being comfortable discussing Ski Types (Carving/AM/Freeride/Powder); Turn Radius; Waist width and Sidecut; Brand characteristics (Damp vs Playful); Design Characteristics eg Camber/Rocker etc; Materials (Graphene/Titanal/Carbon); Construction (Cap vs Sandwich) - will have the person you are dealing with take you more seriously (even if you are bluffing a bit).

Help!!

Would I notice much difference with bought vs rented intermediate skis?

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