 Poster: A snowHead
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Planning a trip at the moment, not decided where (but in Europe, most likely Alps), where we will be doing probably 75% piste skiing and maybe 25% off-piste, if we do as we have done in recent years. As we're late to book, we're going to grab what we can, and will likely end up somewhere not known for its off-piste, with the idea of playing around off to the edges and making the most of what little is available. One of the areas I have thought about is Kronplatz in the northern Dolomites. But a couple of times now I've read (non-authoritative) things saying that off-piste skiing is not allowed there.
It made me wonder whether there are certain places I have to avoid where it is actually forbidden. I know you're not allowed to access the off-piste in Piedmont (I think) without probe, shovel and detector, which is fine, we always carry them anyway when venturing off piste. But are there places where it is simply not allowed, full stop?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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There's a few areas signed as no go for nature conservancy. But not heard of anything else.
But skiing down pavements is both off piste and illegal in France, but they all do!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@chocksaway, yes, I've watched videos of Candice Thovex doing lots of skiing in places where it's probably not allowed!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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There are some sections of forest in a few places in Austria where it's not allowed in order to avoid disturbing wildlife. Bizarrely these are generally signposted with 'it's also your forest' signs (in English and German) which to me at least feels like a totally different message...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Areas above Vallorcine and also Courmayeur verbotten, with pretty hefty fines …
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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the protected areas are usually shown on the piste maps so you take a look at those beforehand online. There may be limited signage actually on the ground (in France anyway)
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I remember talk, at Birthday and pre-Birthday bashes, about quite strict control in Italy. Didn't affect me, but it would be worth getting authoritative advice.
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Yes, I have come across areas in Switzerland before, around Wengen, where it's protected forest. That's not really what I'm meaning, though. I'm talking about a general ban over a whole area, a whole resort. I'll try and find something more authoritative about Kronplatz.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| under a new name wrote: |
| Areas above Vallorcine and also Courmayeur verbotten, with pretty hefty fines … |
The closed area in Courmayeur is becuse there is a clif band that is not jumpable, it is very dangerous to do rescues in there. Hence if anyone does need rescuing in there the fine is heavy.
Above Vallorcine it's because the slope has a tendancy to slide when you try and ski (or more likely snowboard) and there has been numerous avalanche deaths in there + it's also possible for the slide to endanger peoples homes.
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The woods above Villaroger other than marked routes. The nature reserve that protects overwintering tetras lyre is out of bounds. Police with binoculars issue fines if you stray into it. And the general area above the woods, accessible over Grand Col, is only allowed if you have obtained a pass or are with a guide/instructor.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Italy is problematic. It's not illegal in all of Italy but regions have their own laws, in Aosta it's only legal if you are properly equipped (beacon, shovel, probe) and I have heard reliable reports of police issuing fines at well known spots (I forget which run but there's a classic off piste from Arp or Youla that requires a bus ride to get back to the lifts, people have reported spot checks at roadside where the run ends). In Alto Adige I think it's allowed but in Veneto it is illegal to ski anywhere that could potentially cause an avalanche on to a piste - given the the Dolomites cover both regions it's possible to break the law on one run but not on another. I think Kronplatz is in Veneto so it might well be true that it's illegal to ski off piste there. I have asked instructors in the area what the law is and they didn't know, or were not willing to go in to details, they just shrugged it off. I don't know of anyone having any issues in the Dolomites but I have seen very clear signs around Corvara saying it's illegal. This is from several years ago so it may have changed, I'd love to get up to date info!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Idris, ah, didn't know the background re Courmayeur, thanks.
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It used to be illegal in Livigno until around 10 years ago, but it's actively promoted now.
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You know it makes sense.
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sah, thanks, it sounds like there is some possible substance to the idea, then. Strange how hard it is to find the information to corroborate this one way or the other.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Kronzplatz is in Südtirol not Veneto
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Poster: A snowHead
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In France it is generally forbiden to ski where tétras lyre hide under the snow.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, I have emailed the tourist office in Kronplatz asking for them to clarify the situation. I'll report back if I get an answer.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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J2R, I've never skied in Italy so never had to worry about it but whenever I've read threads about off piste in Italy this confusion seems to abound.
I probably won't go until I'm retired anyway but it does always put me off a little.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@Layne, I've skied many times in the Monterosa area which is fantastic for off-piste, and there's no problem. I've also skied off-piste in the Via Lattea area without ever coming across any suggestion it's not allowed. It's clearly a regional thing, as sah says.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Tueda nature reserve in 3V is out of bounds and there are fines if they catch you. There are several permitted routes through but otherwise skiing is not allowed. Again, I think this is partly to do with ground dwelling birds.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I got my answer back:
"Skiing outside the slopes is forbidden on Kronplatz.
Even if it was allowed, there are not really possibilities to ski outside, because most of the area on top of Kronplatz are wide slopes.
If it’s not an slope, then there are trees."
So I won't be going to Kronplatz, then.
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| J2R wrote: |
I got my answer back:
"Skiing outside the slopes is forbidden on Kronplatz.
Even if it was allowed, there are not really possibilities to ski outside, because most of the area on top of Kronplatz are wide slopes.
If it’s not an slope, then there are trees."
So I won't be going to Kronplatz, then. |
Given they have a section on the website dedicated yo skitouring offpiste (https://www.kronplatz.com/en/acitivities/ski-touring) and many photos on the main website showing tracks offpiste, I reckon that’s more likely to be some underpaid tourism board employee who probably doesn’t understand what you mean, doesn’t ski offpiste or know the rules themselves, and is relying on google translate to answer before they clock off for the weekend…
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You may be right, clarky999! I wonder if the page you mention is referring to somewhere a little away from the main resort, though.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| gorilla wrote: |
| Tueda nature reserve in 3V is out of bounds and there are fines if they catch you. There are several permitted routes through but otherwise skiing is not allowed. Again, I think this is partly to do with ground dwelling birds. |
Yes, they are serious about it.
I was going through a permitted route a couple of years ago and there was a guard positioned near a couloir which is easily accessed (with skins) but forbidden, to prevent people skiing down there. Presumably the guard must have skinned up there.
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| gorilla wrote: |
| Tueda nature reserve in 3V is out of bounds and there are fines if they catch you. There are several permitted routes through but otherwise skiing is not allowed. Again, I think this is partly to do with ground dwelling birds. |
Rock Ptarmigan (Tétras lyre), like a big tasty alpine chicken that makes a lot of noise if you disturb it. They've been up fining people over the holidays on the south east side of the Mont Vallon
http://pistehors.com/XM4zIn8BbNihPQ79S7Az/police-crack-down-on-off-piste-skiers
bizarrely you can hunt Tétras lyre and eat them, but not disturb them in the winter. Does this make sense if they are a threatened species?
Personally I respect the laws but question the hypocrisy.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Arent they fining for entering the nature reserve rather than disturbing the birds. I doubt you can hunt them there either.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| adithorp wrote: |
| Arent they fining for entering the nature reserve rather than disturbing the birds. I doubt you can hunt them there either. |
"La chasse est autorisée dans la réserve. " but you are indeed correct, you can't hunt tétras-lyre (the only exception) in the reserve but can shoot them the second they fly outside !
https://www.plandetueda-reservenaturelle.fr/activites-traditionnelles/
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Backside of Piz Val Gronda in Ischgl - they wanted to develop that area, and constructed a quite big lift, only to find some rare plant on the backside of the mountain - Now you are not allowed to ski the western side of the mountain. 
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You know it makes sense.
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Limited knowledge but where I've repped in Italy they had the same general rules about off piste, if you go off you must have the kit, shovel, transceiver, probe etc. Also if you trigger a slide you were meant to wait for the secuitie de piste to show up and check its all ok. In Bormio the fine for skiing away from a slide was about 4000 Euros...
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| clarky999 wrote: |
| Given they have a section on the website dedicated yo skitouring offpiste (https://www.kronplatz.com/en/acitivities/ski-touring) and many photos on the main website showing tracks offpiste, I reckon that’s more likely to be some underpaid tourism board employee who probably doesn’t understand what you mean, doesn’t ski offpiste or know the rules themselves, and is relying on google translate to answer before they clock off for the weekend… |
"A bit" late reply but still  I would say answer is quite ok. Kronplatz is really either piste or dense trees where skiing is in best case not fun if not impossible. It's not really forest like I don't know, Zauchensee, where you can ski forest without issues.
Their "ski touring web" is, at least based on photos, meant for ski tours in surrounding, and there you have plenty of it. Pustertal has plenty of ski touring options, just not on mountain of Kronplatz. but on nearby mountains. So even if you are staying in hotel on Kronplatz, you have like 5min drive, or sometimes you can actually even ski out of hotel and reach nearby mountains. But there's one problem with Kronplatz and surrounding... it's in middle of Dolomiti, but winters with lots of snow are not all that common. Most winters don't really have all that much snow, so sometimes it's quite challenging to get good enough conditions for nice ski touring (this winter is one of those already).
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