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Latest travel rules for Italy?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Some other companies also did the certificate in minutes. It was obvious they just set up an auto responder on their email Smile The company I now use, C19, probably got reported, so now they take some hours, up to 24. So you have to watch that. Don't do the pre return test on the last day. Do it on last-1.

The actual virus is easy to avoid, if you just want to ski and don't need to socialise. It was always obvious how to do it - back home too. Avoid crowded indoor spaces. Do self catering, so you just visit the supermarket, wearing an FFP3 mask. Wear the FFP3 mask on enclosed lifts. And on the airliner. Get a taxi, not the stuffy ski shuttle. I found 2 wks ago that people (most skiers are in groups) avoid getting into lifts, and even onto chairlifts, with some stranger in there, and this was really nice! Ski where there are chairlifts. In Italy they ban pulling down the clear cover, which is a good and simple idea. Start skiing when the lifts open and you get a lovely few hours with largely empty lifts and slopes Smile I ended up on enclosed lifts and 99% of the time it was empty. In the past people always packed into these. You will never catch it on a chairlift. Apres ski bars are shut. Avoid crowded restaurants.

Randox got a really bad reputation; my experience too. Duff website, duff magic numbers. Money wasted. Maybe they are ok now.

There is the usual stupidity e.g. surgical masks required but (in some places) buffs not allowed. Or mandatory masks in the main street (pointless outdoors). Vac certificate scanned but ID never checked so completely meaningless.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
rinky75 wrote:
Italy is within 24 hours if antigen and 48 if PCR same for kids. That’s for entry into Italy.

Once there, you will need super green pass to enter closed lifts, restaurants (except own hotel). No pass needed for open chairlifts but given you are triple jabbed and child double jabbed and assume has a QR code then should be fine.


Is the Super Green Pass a separate app and/or printed form, or just the QR Code from the NHS Covid Pass?
Roughly how often during the skiing day did you have to present the scanning code? (I don't trust my phone, so might laminate my most recent booster jab code)
Thanks.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Am I correct in saying these "test to return" lateral flow kits are only available in the UK?
I'm from Ireland and I can't seem to find any here.
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Re randox being great…..not always

https://www.irvingslaw.com/randox-scandal/
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@Il_Capitano, not sure where you got your info re. false -ve and +ve rates for LFDs, but you've got it the wrong way around. The false -ve rate is far higher than the false +ve rate:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34407759/
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Triumph wrote:
rinky75 wrote:
Italy is within 24 hours if antigen and 48 if PCR same for kids. That’s for entry into Italy.

Once there, you will need super green pass to enter closed lifts, restaurants (except own hotel). No pass needed for open chairlifts but given you are triple jabbed and child double jabbed and assume has a QR code then should be fine.


Is the Super Green Pass a separate app and/or printed form, or just the QR Code from the NHS Covid Pass?
Roughly how often during the skiing day did you have to present the scanning code? (I don't trust my phone, so might laminate my most recent booster jab code)
Thanks.


it’s a conceptual thing - the green tick that the VerificaC19 app gives when it successfully scans your nhs qr code certificates.

You just need an image/print out of those to present to someone who will be using that app.

(People get confused about this because in Italy they originally referred to their nhs certificate equivalents as ‘green passes’ - but those still need to be scanned by the app just like ours, to get that all-important green tick)
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Thanks. And do they scan all 3 QR codes (if triple jabbed) or just the latest (booster)?
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Triumph wrote:
Thanks. And do they scan all 3 QR codes (if triple jabbed) or just the latest (booster)?


Just the latest (earlier ones are likely ‘out of date’ per the rules for the Italian green passes - e.g the first pass is only valid for days 15-42 if it’s Pfizer). You just need one of them to work.

Must be a ‘current’ certificate ie if it’s past the 30 day expiry from when you created it, it will not pass.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Understood, thanks.
Just as test, I installed their VerificaC19 app, and that verifies that my NHS QR codes are valid Smile
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Triumph wrote:
Roughly how often during the skiing day did you have to present the scanning code? (I don't trust my phone, so might laminate my most recent booster jab code)
Thanks.


The Dolomitie app validates your lift pass, via the green pass on a daily basis, so no need to present the code on lifts. It should be checked whenever you enter a Rifugio, restaurant or bar, so your phone battery should last ok. Worth having a laminated copy to save getting the phone out though. It should fit in the same pocket as the lift pass.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@Triumph, I was worried about my phone dying on me so I had the battery replaced before we went away (to France) in December and it worked like a dream. No running out. We had to show our passes at the bottom lift the first time and after that n any restaurants where we were sitting down for lunch.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
sugarmoma666 wrote:
@Il_Capitano, not sure where you got your info re. false -ve and +ve rates for LFDs, but you've got it the wrong way around. The false -ve rate is far higher than the false +ve rate:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34407759/


Here:

https://www.bmj.com/content/373/bmj.n1411

It does depend on the numbers you punch in but for the BMJ baseline model it does show a slightly higher false +ve than false-ve. However, once you adjust for base rates, you are far more likely to not have covid following a negative test, than you are to have covid following a positive test (assuming the test is at random and not because of factors such as symptoms or exposure).


Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Thu 30-12-21 12:14; edited 1 time in total
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Always carry a printout.

I've been caught out on this in France (before Mr Big M banned Brits altogether) because the NHS app doesn't run without an internet connection, and in N France there is an occassional issue where the first network my Voda SIM connects to doesn't actually roam with Voda. Luckily I had a printout. But most "young people" today don't have a printer, so when I am going somewhere with some, I print it out for them.

That Italian app does work on my NHS cert perfectly. It may also need internet access! The reason is that it is trivially easy to produce a fake vacc certificate which shows your correct name etc so would pass verification even if the verifier was checking your ID. There is a woman running a cafe not far from here where she prints out fake vacc certs for customers, which do show the correct name. Scumbag... her customers are the local trendy anti-vaccers. But these will fail verification if the verifying device has the root certificate access, and for that it needs an internet connection - or at least a recent connection. Her certificates will be signed allright but not all the way back to the root one which is owned by, at a guess, some agency in Brussels, or London for a UK one.

I reckon most resort checks don't do this procedure, but if you get caught with a fake vacc cert in Italy, you won't get the "British justice"; you will get some firm treatment from a 9mm carrying (and thus probably slightly thicker than average) policeman. I think the Italian app has an option to update these certificates but hotel etc staff won't know about that.

So always carry a printout.

In Cervinia, no barcode checks on the slopes, IME. Everywhere else, yes.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@Triumph, I always carry a power bank as a backup. Something like this.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=power+bank+10000mah&i=electronics&crid=3W0WG8572W1TL&sprefix=power+ban%2Celectronics%2C95&ref=nb_sb_ss_ts-doa-p_5_9&tag=amz07b-21

10000mah should give you 3-4 charges on most phones. I have one with 4 outlets, so can recharge camera batteries on the go as well.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Hi All, part of a group potentially headed to Italy mid Jan, one of which has has both vaccinations but for various reasons not had the booster and may not be able to have it before the trip due to timing of the second. We are flying into Geneva if that makes any difference.
Is a booster a pre requisite for fully vaccinated status, or are the two vaccinations enough?
I have done a search around the internet but cannot find a definitive answer on this. Thanks in advance
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I just tried the verifica app with my Scottish NHS certificate. This has 2 QR codes, one for each Jag (it was the one I got before the booster so only showing 2 QR) and both of them give a green tick on the verifica19 app. I scanned it from my computer screen because I don't have the print with me.

I'll test later the app on MrsCyclops' phone scanning the Scottish NHS app which has my booster.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@brianatab, we also have a power bank with us, bought last summer, and have print outs.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Thanks all!
Gone full belts & braces -
Phone wallpaper & lock screen is my latest QR Code.
Printed & laminated versions (laminator purchased specifically rolling eyes )
20,000mAh power bank (not purchased specifically!)

Possibly overkill, but I've 6 of us to manage. And they're all (40yr+) idiots.
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 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
@Triumph, Looks like a good plan - which laminator did you purchase? Do you cut the image before or after laminating?
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
The cheapest, that also included 15 "pouches" https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B099RT7JCC?tag=amz07b-21

Printing on 6x4 photo so resolution will be OK (appropriate pouches included)
The QR code within the pdf you receive, from NHS app, is an image, so easy enough to extract & print for a larger graphic.
Although I'm sure simply printing as is will suffice.

You cut before laminating, leaving a gap for the seal.

Real shame I've not put as much effort into my fitness as I have for this nonsense.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
Il_Capitano wrote:
When I was in Italy, I did an NHS lateral flow test every day and directly before the "test to return" lateral flow. However for the lateral flow I just poured the liquid - ... My situation was I could have self-isolated for 10 days if necessary. However, lots of people going away from January onwards won't have this luxury, and are just really likely to travel home when positive when faced with the alternative.


and earlier claims to have 'behaved very responsibly' morally bankrupt and brazen / total lack of self-awareness.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@Il_Capitano, if you were so sure why not just do the test like normal people with a backbone?
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
ed123 wrote:
Il_Capitano wrote:
When I was in Italy, I did an NHS lateral flow test every day and directly before the "test to return" lateral flow. However for the lateral flow I just poured the liquid - ... My situation was I could have self-isolated for 10 days if necessary. However, lots of people going away from January onwards won't have this luxury, and are just really likely to travel home when positive when faced with the alternative.


and earlier claims to have 'behaved very responsibly' morally bankrupt and brazen / total lack of self-awareness.
It certainly is a bit...quaint...to admit to this sort of thing on a public forum. Shocked
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Somebody earlier in this thread asked what actually happens if one of your party tests positive whilst in Italy. I have just returned from our family trip to Aosta and can answer this from my own experience. We booked an apartment in Aosta from 17th to 24th December and had flights from London Luton to Milan Malpensa returning on the 23rd - I brought the return flight forward a day when they re-introduced the Day 2 test (so the isolation finished earlier when we returned).

We completed our 'fit to fly' tests on the 16th and had a great time skiing in Pila with a day each at Courmayeur and La Thuile. Lift queues were pretty much non existent, we followed rules on mask wearing and we only shared lifts with family members. My wife does not ski but my 16 year old daughter and 14 year old son do. My daughter had her first vaccination on 27th November so had a super green pass. My son had his first vaccination on October 4th. We completed Rapid Antigen (lateral flows) at the pharmacy in Milan Malpensa airport and in Aosta to provide him with a green pass for lifts where required. My wife and I are double vaccinated so had the super green pass. We would eat outside in the day and in our apartment most evenings. We ate out in the evening twice in Aosta. Both restaurants accepted a GP vaccination letter for my son.

On the 22nd we carried out our pre-departure tests via chronomics and my daughter tested positive (asymptomatic). I tested her again with a lateral flow that we had taken with us - also positive. The rest of us were negative. My heart sunk and we isolated in the apartment and called the regional hotline as per advice on the UK Government website. I could not get through to the number given so we tried other local health authority numbers (Doctors, testers etc) and the national 112 number. It is difficult to recall exactly who said what as there were many phone calls, in broken English, but we were advised we must remain where we were until my daughter and i had a molecular (PCR) test and that should it be positive we would need to quarantine for 10 days at our current location or in a quarantine hotel where we would most likely be separated.

At the same time we were in contact with our insurance company (Ski Club GB) to work out what our cover was. I had made sure that we had travel insurance that covered quarantine but i had not looked at the detail of that. From initial conversations it sounded like we would be covered for accommodation related to quarantine plus costs to return for my daughter plus an adult. It was less clear if all 4 of us would be covered.

We had many discussions and made the decision to send my wife and son home as planned using the rental car whilst i stayed with my daughter. Lots of tears etc.

The PCR test was initially planned for the 23rd but they could not fit us in. We were told that we could not move until the PCR was completed. Our apartment was only booked until 11am on the 24th and they had a booking immediately afterwards. The owner of the apartment was trying to find us alternative accommodation. I was also looking for alternative accommodation as i did not want my daughter to go into a quarantine hotel if possible. The owner of the apartment was able to move another booking and provide an apartment from the 24th - 27th that was just along the hallway - we were very grateful. We carried out the test on the 24th and moved across the hall to the 2nd apartment.

I obtained the results on 25th December by calling 112 and my daughter was positive. I was negative. We had our xmas day together whilst my wife and son had theirs back home. We received a couple of presents from the owner of the apartment which was a very nice touch and then on boxing day we had many more discussions about what to do next. I tried to find suitable accommodation in Aosta. The owner of the apartment also tried to find suitable accommodation. She offered to modify their office for us sending videos etc but it was basically a single room so we felt it would be difficult to keep our distance (we were trying to maintain distance so i did not become positive). I found a couple of available apartments in Aosta and messaged them explaining the situation. The first replied saying they had an elderly relative living next door so did not want to take the risk. The second didn't reply.

The local health authority were due to contact us on 26th to advise the next steps but we did not receive a call and our apartment ended the next day. We had earlier been advised that we would be allowed to move from one isolation location to another via private vehicle. Whilst this was probably wrong and had been contradicted by other advise we'd been given we decided to book an available apartment in an isolated spot near Lake Maggiore with contactless check-in and hire a car from Europcar in Aosta airport that we could drop off at Milan Malpensa. We booked these until January 3rd (10 days after my daughter tested positive from her PCR test) in agreement with the insurance company.

On 27th I walked to Aosta airport to pick up the car and then went back to pick up my daughter and take her to our 3rd apartment. We drove there with windows open etc and didn't make any contact with the owners of the new apartment.

When we arrived i carried out an NHS later flow test on her and she was now negative. We decided to apply the logic of the recent UK rules (7 days isolation with 2 negative tests) and booked new pre-departure tests in the local pharmacy for the 29th before flying home. We took further NHS lateral flows on the 28th which were both negative and then yesterday we carried out our formal tests in the pharmacy (both negative) and flew home with new flights. All the while we were worrying what would happen if their IT systems were connected and we were caught leaving the country during the 10 day isolation period that we should have been observing.

The whole experience since my daughter tested positive has been very stressful and i am just glad that we are now home. The owner of our apartment was really helpful and to date the insurance company have also been very supportive. They paid upfront for the 2nd apartment and i am about to raise a claim for the 3rd apartment and 2nd car hire. I am hopeful, but not certain, that i will receive this money given that it will be costing them less than it would have been for the alternative - 10 days in a quarantine hotel plus costs to return.

I hope this helps rather than scares people. I think it is most likely that my daughter caught Covid in the UK just before we left and it wasn't picked up on her fit to fly test....but it may have been whilst we were there. I can't be sure.
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
@shuv7, Thanks for taking the time to post -- very useful (must have been traumatic for you and your family - well done)

On a different point -- is your user name your actual email address?? :: not a good thing to use your email addy on an open forum ; spam bots will be looking to farm any genuine email addy....


Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads on Thu 30-12-21 17:26; edited 1 time in total
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Thanks how do i change it?
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Ask in this thread
https://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=98726
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Done thanks
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
MHskier wrote:
Re randox being great…..not always

https://www.irvingslaw.com/randox-scandal/


I think legal historic forensic claims by an ambulance chasing type firm, while has a baring to previous credibility, for the purposes of an effective, efficient and fast LFT testing service, it is very unhelpful...... Puzzled

For us they've worked v well, however if I ever find myself needing forensic lab work I'll remember to steer clear. wink
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
[b]@shuv7 thanks I find this helpful, we all need to be aware if anyone gets a +ve test as it did with you.
Really glad to see your all home now, you seem to have dealt with it very well, particularly as it happened just before Xmas.
I’m planning on a solo trip in Jan, if anything happens I’ll just have to hunker down and wait, I’ve checked my insurance and it does cover me.
Can I ask how busy was the gondola up to Pila, it’s on my list of possible places to go.


Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Thu 30-12-21 17:40; edited 2 times in total
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
There were no queues for the gondola so went straight on at around 9am. Slightly more people around at the weekend but bear in mind we were there pre-season so could be different by the time you go. They only had about half the ski area open up to around 2300m. The top couple of chairs up to 2800m were closed but was still good skiing if a bit limited. I'd keep an eye on that at pila.it to see if they're open when you go.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
shuv7's email address has since been quoted by geoffknight above Smile

Thank you for the great informative post. It shows why people are gaming the pre return to UK test (dead simple) because getting stuck abroad is a total nightmare, and those 99% who don't know how to do it are thinking hard about travelling in the first place, which also, albeit less directly, fulfils the govt objective, but at a huge cost to future generations who will be paying off the debt.

Against all this, the new variant is increasingly obviously really harmless (except to anti-vaccers - over 90% of hospital occupancy is anti-vaccers now), and it's always been the case that most people went about their normal life (airlines, trains, buses, holidays, keep fit classes, gym, parties, etc) while being very obviously ill with a cold. Unfortunately so many people are making money out of covid (some 30-40BN spent on track & trace, for a start, and then the £50k loans of which ~50% will never be repaid) that it's going to change very slowly. Look at how much Randox were paying to Owen Paterson...
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@geoffknight, He can always edit it out (hopefully..)
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
Thanks for the post @shuv7, very helpful. I was one of the ones who asked what the possible scenarios would be if someone tested positive so it's good to hear about a real experience.

I think it both helps and worries slightly. It helps because you were largely able to manage it ok and weren't caught out not strictly observing the isolation period. However it also confirms some fears; namely that once you have to call the regional hotline it's not a very smooth process and you're likely to be confused by what's going on, especially if your Italian is rusty.

Still planning on going and hope to avoid catching it but good to know if you do that it's not a complete nightmare.

One question though - why did your wife and son not need to isolate too?
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@PeterStevens i can see the temptation to game the pre-departure test and i did immediately think to myself - why didn't i carry out our own lateral flow tests first so i knew what was coming. But i don't think i would have actually done the test for her and put her on the flight after a positive test. That's a step too far. I couldn't be sure she had omicron and i couldn't be sure how harmless it would be for others should they catch it on the flight. However, i might have then not reported it and kept her isolated until she was testing negative again to limit the rigmarole that we went through.

@twiceforluck2 My wife and son should have isolated for 7 days. I suspected this but wasn't sure at the time. The people who organised our pcr test and told me we must isolate never asked whether there were others in the apartment. I didn't tell them because i wanted them to be able to go home. I felt that was reasonable given that they had tested negative. I think they are in the process of changing the isolation rules for close contacts so that they would not need to isolate. I think they're realising that they will have nobody able to work etc with the onset of omicron and this rule. I guess they may also reduce the isolation period for positive cases from 10 days in the future but i don't think they have the same test at home capability. I think they're all done in pharmacies with a nurse/doctor.
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albob wrote:
@geoffknight, He can always edit it out (hopefully..)

His email address is also in a post of yours above.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@sugarmoma666, DOH !! slapped wrist accepted.... Embarassed (edited my post )
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
I’ve edited mine also now. Didn’t see it when I clicked on reply.
One of the things that sticks out to me is how helpful the apartment owner was in finding an alternative apartment and buying a little present for you both, it must have been very heart warming in such a time of stress and uncertainty.


Last edited by After all it is free Go on u know u want to! on Thu 30-12-21 18:05; edited 1 time in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Thanks Shuv7, I thought as much and a fairly sensible approach. It has been announced today that isolation for close (vaccinated/recently boosted) contacts is no longer needed which is good news.
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
@geoffknight, Indeed, Top marks for the Owner..
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