 Poster: A snowHead
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Bought a pair of Griffon 13 SoleID bindings (MY 2020) so I could use my DH boots and touring boots on the same skis.
The bindings have a height-adjustable toe piece with gliding AFD and are certified for use with touring boots.
My issue is there is a massive increase of force to step into the binding with my touring boots (the rubber heel adds friction in the binding heel piece) and I'm sure this will affect the release in the same way, not to mention the difficulty stepping in in deep snow.......
The latest model is supposed to have 30% easier step-in, but even that would be problematic!
Anyone had the same issue?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Any of the royal bindings can be difficult to step into even with the cleanest alpine sole unless you have the TCX heel. Deep snow particularly develops your anglo saxon vocab.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Dave of the Marmottes, what worries me is the roughly 3-fold effort to step in with my touring boots compared to my DH boots, does this equate to an effective rise in DIN release value?
Only way to find out is get them tested I guess.....
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@spyderjon's probably torque tested the combo - hit him up
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I had the exact same issue, then had a simple fall and one binding did not release my bootd, Scott superguide, youk now the result of my broken knee Ken.
Now I use Salomon warden 13 mnc binding with Scarpa mistrale and the bindings have very smooth progressive release.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@Markhandford, TVM!
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@Markhandford, +1 I’ve moved from Griffon to Shift following a crash and ACL rupture. Using Maestrale RS at the time.
@KenX, if you’re interested I’ve a barely used pair of Warden 11 MNC looking for a new home. They’ve had 7 days non-aggressive use (they were my OH’s; she has also now moved to Shift). https://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=157047
If you’re interested I’m (1) in France from Thursday night and could post them to you, and (2) open to discussing the price.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Griffon ID's torque test fine with AT soled boots providing the forward pressure and toe height are correctly set. The toe height is important as with some AT soles, especially new ones, there's insufficient height adjustment on the ID toe and the boot soles need a tad grinding off them to get the correct 0.5mm 'feeler gauge' gap.
They also run more forward pressure than many other bindings that can cause issues clicking-in but the newer version certainly helps in this respect. The binding is designed to work with that level of forward pressure and it certainly does not adversely effect the release characteristics or the dins etc.
The softer heel soles of some AT boots absorb a lot of the downward pressure being applied when clicking-in compared to the firmer rubber of many alpine heel sole blocks. This absorption, and increased friction, makes it difficult for the downward pressure of the boot to be converted to the rearward pressure require to push the upper heel rearward on its track etc. What can help, especially with new/unworn soles, is to fettle the bottom/leading edge of the sole by chamfering it slightly to allow it enter the heel cup easier
The other 'feature' of the Griffon, especially when new, is that the upper heel is often extremely tight on the lower base plate - often to the extend that the heel can't be pushed fully to the rear of the base plate at installation without a bit of persuasion. This added friction will compound the situation when trying to click-in with an AT sole. The solution to this is to remove the upper heel from the base, apply a little squirt of silicon spray the rails on the base and then slide the heel back and forth along the base to 'lap' it in.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@spyderjon, hear what you're saying and would hope that once the touring boot is in, then the release value is dictated by the heel piece working with the hard plastic of the boot shell.
However, given the comments by the 2 people above who received injuries, I'm not prepared to take the chance of a correct release and will stick with my DH boots in these bindings......
Also don't think I could enter the bindings in deep snow without reaching down and pulling the heel piece up, disappointing, but thanks for your input re torque testing them!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Blimey, thanks for posting this up! Have Griffons on all my Freeride skis. Will avoid using the zero-G’s in them 
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My other thoughts
As punters we should not be aware of taking the sliding heel piece to squirt silicon spray on the rails, nor should we as punters have to grind down any part of a ski boot or have to be aware of lapping in a binding - It should come out of the box ready to install on a ski without any issues.
I have also seen a handful of folks with alpine ski boots also struggle to get the heel to close on this binding.
Life changing injury is what I have, 3yrs later still coping.
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You know it makes sense.
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I also had a failed release from Griffons with touring boots. I initially assumed that I had screwed up setting the bindings but, on having them checked by a ski tech, he told me that was not the problem. He suggested that I wasn't going fast enough. I know how fast I was going when I exploded under the Saulire Express and hence had assumed that I was just unlucky. Interesting to see how many others have similar stories. I got away with meniscus damage.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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OK well I just bought some Griffons and had 'em stuck onto my new Mantras. But I'm in alpine gear exclusively and had no issues with older Griffons. So now somebody will please tell me that "nah, you're good, the prob is just for touring boots".
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Poster: A snowHead
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"Nah, you're good, the problem is just with touring boots"
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Stepped in on the carpet today in my touring boots, I say "stepped in", more like jumped up and landed in, no way would these work in powder, in DH boots it was OK.... I studied the release from the heel in touring boots and it *seemed* ok, wouldn't trust my knees/legs in them though and I'm not about to modify my boots for a flawed binding design, or maybe it's a great binding with extremely misleading marketing.......
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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The problem is with some AT soles and it's to do with the softness of the rubber and also that some boot makers aren't as tight with their AT sole tolerances as they are with as alpine soles. Jester/Griffons are manufactured to the boot sole standards but some soles, especially when new, can be outside of that. AT boot makers will assume that their boots are being used with tech bindings.
I'll repeat it again: there's no issue with the release function of the Jester/Griffon ID with AT soles when the binding is set-up correctly. On the original Dukes/Barons/Tours with the flat AFD's when torque tested with AT soles then increased lateral drag could be measured (but still within spec) but the profiles AFD on the ID toes removes that issue and they test equally with any sole. The issue, for some, is with clicking-in to the binding and the two are not related. It sucks that people get injured but I know people that have been injured in virtually every make/model of binding. Bindings are pretty basic mechanical devices that essentially haven't changed is decades and (apart from the Kneebinding) are designed to mitigate tib/fib fractures only.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@KenX, you're in the will 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Scooter in Seattle, just don't leave me the Griffons 
I'll take the Mantras tho..........
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