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Masks in lift queues in France

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@Dr John, ok I see.
Yes it makes sense to need that before being able to get the lift pass, I just assumed you did.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
VolklAttivaS5 wrote:
@Dr John, ok I see.
Yes it makes sense to need that before being able to get the lift pass, I just assumed you did.


It makes sense, except in the sense that currently no UK minor 12-15 can get one, nor any elder 65+ (soon to be 55+ no doubt) even if jabbed without regular testing.

EU citizens OK I think, but not sure on other 3rd countries.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
midgetbiker wrote:
VolklAttivaS5 wrote:
@Dr John, ok I see.
Yes it makes sense to need that before being able to get the lift pass, I just assumed you did.


It makes sense, except in the sense that currently no UK minor 12-15 can get one, nor any elder 65+ (soon to be 55+ no doubt) even if jabbed without regular testing.

EU citizens OK I think, but not sure on other 3rd countries.


Oh I see.
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@VolklAttivaS5,
Double jabbed plus booster. Season pass bought and loaded onto an existing card. No connection between the two.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Timc wrote:
@VolklAttivaS5,
Double jabbed plus booster. Season pass bought and loaded onto an existing card. No connection between the two.


Tim, would you have pressed the button on that if you were over 65?
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Any excuse not to wear a helmet
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Charliegolf wrote:

Tim, would you have pressed the button on that if you were over 65?


I am and I did
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Thanks, so no worries about the covid pass not showing the booster then? (Same position for a January start(France), so very interested.)
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@Dr John, I agree. There’s one thing that we know works really well … but let’s wear masks outside instead
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@midgetbiker, aiui, if the UK wholeheartedly adopted the EU scheme, the UK could say single jabs 12-15 were fine and the EU scheme would accept that.

But, oh, no, it’s all the big bad EU’s fault rolling eyes
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@Charliegolf, Not really, if it means a test every few days then it does. Currently I'm more worried about them shutting down completely again even if Castex has said that they won't.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@Timc, Ta for the reply. I think I am where you are. We are looking at all of Jan and 2 weeks in March, so a season pass is best value. It's also a lot to lose if they shut down after 2 weeks.
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@under a new name, trust me, I know where the blame lies for this cluster **ck.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Charliegolf wrote:
@Timc, Ta for the reply. I think I am where you are. We are looking at all of Jan and 2 weeks in March, so a season pass is best value. It's also a lot to lose if they shut down after 2 weeks.


If they did shut down you should get some sort of pro-rata refund.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@Charliegolf, 2 weeks Jan and 2 weeks March, season pass payback is about 12 days.
@midgetbiker,
Quote:

If they did shut down you should get some sort of pro-rata refund.

You would hope so, but it would depend on their definition of Force Majeure. 2019/20 there was no refund or credit of any sort. Fortunately the travel insurance covered the 50% that we missed out on.

The risk as I see it is that they don't shutdown but without a booster QR code not being able to access anything. Don't think my insurance would cover that.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
At 61, I'm on the cusp of needing the booster to be shown on the app... C'mon tory boys, get you act together.

Season ticket, well, we'll just have to hope I get to use it on the 3 visits planned.
Approved snoods purchased this pm from the La Plagne site. (WHY Les Arcs don't do them... missed opportunity methinks).
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Dr John wrote:
@VolklAttivaS5, same as rest of France; required for bars, restaurants, gyms, indoor spaces, sporting gatherings etc. Think they've missed a very big trick by not requiring one for lift passes.


Yeah, crazy that the Italy trumped us on this. But the Dolomites always more Austrian than Italian.

Regarding bubble lifts, gondolas etc. I suspect I've caught lots of colds over the years in them -- could never figure out why by the end of every ski week I was sniffly and achy -- so will keep a buff up anyway, required or not, this winter. I used to make fun of Asian tourists and their masks but now having not caught a single cold since this effing pandemic started, I'm definitely pro-mask, as least in areas where I'm going to be confined with sweaty strangers...
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Pasigal wrote:
Dr John wrote:
@VolklAttivaS5, same as rest of France; required for bars, restaurants, gyms, indoor spaces, sporting gatherings etc. Think they've missed a very big trick by not requiring one for lift passes.


Yeah, crazy that the Italy trumped us on this. But the Dolomites always more Austrian than Italian.

Regarding bubble lifts, gondolas etc. I suspect I've caught lots of colds over the years in them -- could never figure out why by the end of every ski week I was sniffly and achy -- so will keep a buff up anyway, required or not, this winter. I used to make fun of Asian tourists and their masks but now having not caught a single cold since this effing pandemic started, I'm definitely pro-mask, as least in areas where I'm going to be confined with sweaty strangers...


Buffs or basic surgical masks don’t protect the wearer, they stop the wearer infecting others so easily, its only the higher grade masks that protect the wearer. Thus, if you’re worried about catching it then don't just wear a buff, get a decent mask.
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@Pasigal, nfw you caught colds in bubbles, imv, also, you want to keep your immune system reasonably up to date!

CdMB have already promised appropriate refunds if shut down ...
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
^^ @ster, that was indeed the original thinking, but according to the CDC, which has continually updated its recommendations, even basic cloth masks do in fact protect the wearer somewhat. But you are correct that higher-grade masks provide greater level of protection. I've now had 3 covid shots (and a flu jab) so I'm not particularly worried about covid but I'd also be happy not to get the common cold. This CDC not seems to imply that you could add panty hose to add a layer of protection...hmmm...

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/masking-science-sars-cov2.html?CDC_AA_refVal=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cdc.gov%2Fcoronavirus%2F2019-ncov%2Fmore%2Fmasking-science-sars-cov2.html

"Studies demonstrate that cloth mask materials can also reduce wearers’ exposure to infectious droplets through filtration, including filtration of fine droplets and particles less than 10 microns. The relative filtration effectiveness of various masks has varied widely across studies, in large part due to variation in experimental design and particle sizes analyzed. Multiple layers of cloth with higher thread counts have demonstrated superior performance compared to single layers of cloth with lower thread counts, in some cases filtering nearly 50% of fine particles less than 1 micron .14,17-29 Some materials (e.g., polypropylene) may enhance filtering effectiveness by generating triboelectric charge (a form of static electricity) that enhances capture of charged particles18,30 while others (e.g., silk) may help repel moist droplets31 and reduce fabric wetting and thus maintain breathability and comfort. In addition to the number of layers and choice of materials, other techniques can improve wearer protection by improving fit and thereby filtration capacity. Examples include but are not limited to mask fitters, knotting-and-tucking the ear loops of medical procedures masks, using a cloth mask placed over a medical procedure mask, and nylon hosiery sleeves."


Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Thu 18-11-21 16:41; edited 1 time in total
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@Jonpim, See my CDC note above.

Anyway, it's all somewhat theoretical. I've had 3 covid jabs and a flu shot which in theory will protect me and others exponentially more than any kind of mask short of an N95 plus my wife's hosiery over my head Smile
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under a new name wrote:
@Pasigal, nfw you caught colds in bubbles, imv, also, you want to keep your immune system reasonably up to date!

CdMB have already promised appropriate refunds if shut down ...


Why couldn't I have caught a cold in a bubble lift or gondola? Sure, touch is maybe a more common vector but people cough, they sneeze and they're sitting right across from you in the gondola. Are you saying you can't catch a cold from a sneeze or cough?
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@Pasigal, I’m sure you could rig a jerry built homemade job paying careful attention to the multiple cloth layers’ thread count and the shaping of the mask for a good fit but I think I’d rather buy one fit for the job.

Or just go commando and trust in the vaccine.
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@Pasigal, I think the statistics are against you regarding duration of exposure and ambient ventilation. That said, do you ever frequent cafes, bars or restaurants? or do your family?
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@Pasigal, Very Happy

The French stuff has had its amusing side too.

When they issued some guidance on masks (2020?), as well as talking about what masks to buy and wear for different circumstances of use, it included advice to French DIYers on how to make a suitable mask yourself - involving 3 layers of different stuff with different properties much for the same reasons as you have described.

They were at pains to point out that vacuum cleaner bags and coffee filter papers weren’t a suitable starting point for the DIY. Very Happy

The latest stuff is I think:
https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/actualites/A14041

There is a document of EU Guidance on making and testing those masks, which are termed ‘barrier masks’ or ‘community masks’ to differentiate them from the medical types.
http://cdnmedia.eurofins.com/corporate-eurofins/media/12153237/ef-covid-19-go-eu-cen-guide-for-community-masks-en.pdf

One thing the French had decided was that the paper surgical types like FFP2 and FFP3 were pretty unsuitable for use by the general public as a measure of public health protection. this apparently was because although the paper medical types had some effectiveness at preventing the wearer spreading disease, they are neither good enough at also protecting the wearer from disease in their immediate environment, outdoors, in the wet, nor suitably robust, convenient and reusable to be suitable for general use out in the community, sport included. Somehow I can’t help thinking the French have got that bit right, and everybody else needs to catch up on this aspect of masking-up.

The AFNOR page pretty well states the French position, and why those various ski-type buffs are marked UNS1 etc and the number of washes. They have probably got 3 specially chosen layers of stuff, and will have been tested too, I imagine.
http://www.afnor.org/en/faq-barrier-masks/

You could still have a go with the tights/coffee filter/vacuum bag, though. With a bit of creative design, you could probably make a multi-purpose one, for both skiing and going robbing in an ICU. Twisted Evil

And then make yourself a lovely cup of coffee.
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@Dr John, AIUI Vax pass will be necessary if cases go over 200 per 100k in the region one is skiing, which I think is inevitable for most of France.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Posted twice


Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Fri 19-11-21 8:11; edited 1 time in total
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@zzz, yep. Agree it's inevitable, and very much horse/bolted situation which will cause no end of issues for punters and seassonaires alike when it happens. Very short sighted.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Here is what you guys need: https://patrol-shop.com/
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
DanishRider wrote:
Here is what you guys need: https://patrol-shop.com/


Perfect. A plain black mask. I guess you just need to take it off and show the liftie the label or fish out your receipt and demonstrate it’s compliant with the rules. Lift faff muchly.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Dr John wrote:
@zzz, yep. Agree it's inevitable, and very much horse/bolted situation which will cause no end of issues for punters and seassonaires alike when it happens. Very short sighted.


I think it will as well, although I'm not sure it will cause many issues for seasonnaires most or all of whom will have needed PSs to get their jobs?
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Personally, I've found the new medical ski buff simple and convenient.



Other than occasionally skiing into the trees.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@under a new name, was taking a PS as a given, otherwise life in resort would be fairly dull. Was thinking more about the administration of flagging lift passes as having a PS. If was a requirement from the start then wouldn't be an issue.
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@Dr John, ah, yes, I see, yes. I guess it'll be a case of having peeps at the access lifts checking them. Given staffing issues this might be tricky ...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Simple to implement, a guy with an iPad scanning the PS on the entry to the lift line in the valley, there's a queue there anyway so won't slow things down........
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@KenX, fine in theory, but in ValD there are 7 lifts up along the valley (plus two learner lifts), all with multiple gates. Will most definitely cause massive queues (and staffing issues as @under a new name says). Unless a way is found of allowing passes through that have already been PS verified the situation will be intolerable long term.
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@Dr John, I could imagine that SkiData have been squirrelling away adding that field to the lift pass CRM application ...

Which could suggest - reasonably easy to verify at point of sale, honour declaration for existing purchases and season passes, random checks in queues on hill, immediate & permanent removal of pass if found to have lied about it.

And anyway, thinking a bit harder about it, @KenX, probably right, it's not causing any issues in bars and restaurants that I've seen, so probably not such a problem (although staff shortages might still be).
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Arctic Roll wrote:
At 61, I'm on the cusp of needing the booster to be shown on the app... C'mon tory boys, get you act together.


They got their act together indeed. My booster has appeared on my app record today! Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
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under a new name wrote:
@Dr John, I could imagine that SkiData have been squirrelling away adding that field to the lift pass CRM application ...


I hope so as well, and the sensible solution. Although given the state of French IT systems I'm not holding my breath for anything seamless....
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Bergmeister wrote:
Arctic Roll wrote:
At 61, I'm on the cusp of needing the booster to be shown on the app... C'mon tory boys, get you act together.


They got their act together indeed. My booster has appeared on my app record today! Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy


On the covid pass bit of the app; or the GP record?
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