![](templates/subSilver/images/full_size.gif) Poster: A snowHead
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Sharkymark wrote: |
Seconding @clarky999, I use neither synthetic or natural down as mid layers - I prefer a powerstretch fleece, or more often when touring, a polartech alpha jacket (which doubles brilliantly as an outer when touring up). I always carry a down in the pack for cold transitions / lunch stops. I've only needed to wear one as an outer when touring in brutal Norwegian conditions. |
Actually I'm with you normally - I tend to wear a powerstretch fleece under a shell too. They wick really well and I'm afraid I sweat easily
I do have a goretex pro primaloft insulated jacket which I wear a lot for lift served skiing in Jan/Feb but never for uphill or after Feb.
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![](templates/subSilver/images/full_size.gif) Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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![](templates/subSilver/images/full_size.gif) Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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For me down is a really bad choice as mid layer, the highly lofted warm versions are only suitable as outer layer when exceptionally cold; and the slimmer, less lofted versions (which look great and feel great in resort BTW) are useless as mid layer if you will be sweating into them.
For me it is either a fleece mid, or if cold, then a light synthetic eg primaloft or polartech alpha.
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![](templates/subSilver/images/full_size.gif) You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@gra, +1
Except, if it’s cold, make plenty of hot choccy stops
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![](templates/subSilver/images/full_size.gif) Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I've been using these as suitable for base, mid or outer applications https://www.military.direct/products/genuine-issue-pcs-cold-weather-fleece-thermal-undershirt material no different to most but brilliantly cut and designed. Gives shoulder space without having to upsize and gets load of surplus around midriff ( unless you need that ) long "fishtail" back that most (do any others? ) dont have, arms quite well fitted such that they don't bunch or impead using a shell over them, long enough too as they don't pull up in a arm stretch manoeuvre.
Plus the neck zip end goes into a little soft docking pocket to avoid touching your neck.
Very simple, but design encompasses so many subtle points to make them so usuable. Relatively cheap and just plain tough, should last indefinitely. Obviously fit is very personal but they do offer a genuinely interesting alternative to mainstream branded type and not too costly to try out.
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![](templates/subSilver/images/full_size.gif) You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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pffff.
It really doesn't matter! I think it is more about the price / style and brand affiliations / perceived values.
Unless you are trekking / carrying everything and are on some sort of ultralight mission ski clothing need be neither expensive nor extremely light.
I guess I run hot- because I almost never wear a mid layer these days. A long or short merino (long- Decathlon, short Icebreaker- both have extra holes)- or both, then a shell. If cold a thin fleece jacket (North Face- ancient).
If it is actually cold then I'll also wear a nanopuff waistcoat or an Alpkit one- cheaper and I get a 20% discount as I am a shareholder (coi declaration there). I'll also take a down vest (Rab Helium) but only for v cold / emergencies and to go on top of rather than under a shell. I used to wear a fleece (a Patagonia one) but almost never these days as I just got toooo hot. I just might take a fleece instead of the down vest if I think I'll wear it all day- which is unlikely.
The kids have a Uniqlo down vest- it is absolutely excellent- superlight,really warm and I think it cost a princely £25. That might be popped on top if unexpectedly cold- or under a jacket if expected.
I think the main issue is taking too much and getting too hot. I always take a buff and a toc and a hat and spare inner gloves though.
A word of warning re down and skiing. Down jackets with pertex shells are great- but they are a little fragile- especially the ultralight ones. A pair of skis thrown casually over the shoulder will destroy one in a heartbeat.
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@ed123, a few years ago I bought a Uniqlo down jacket. Superficially it looked the same as mid-layer down jackets which a number of the skiwear brands sell, but a quarter of the price. It was rubbish and I flogged it on eBay after using it for a couple of ski trips. I’m not sure why but it was hopeless at managing moisture, on a number of days just absorbing sweat and snow to permanently feel damp around the neck and back. I replaced the Uniqlo jacket with a similar garment from Salomon which was significantly better at managing moisture, and it has never felt damp no matter what the ski conditions.
Good advice that that the pertex jackets are not very sturdy. When skiing I’d only wear them as a mid-layer, not as an outer layer.
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Old Fartbag wrote: |
Can you please report back.
It looks like lovely gear....but fairly fitted.
I would expect the Women's version to be more fitted though. |
Lovely Jacket. Nice softshell feel. Very light considering it has down but not too much to make it bulky.
I'm 5'9 1m.78 and about 83 kgs
Also foot detachable helmet compatible hood.
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![](templates/subSilver/images/full_size.gif) You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Foot????? Nice was what I typed.
A very comfortable jacket and £139 for phenix is a bargain.
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@GlasgowCyclops, You're a Gentleman, thank you for taking the trouble.
Would you say it is true to size? What size did you go for and is that your usual size? Is there room for decent layering underneath?
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![](templates/subSilver/images/full_size.gif) snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@Old Fartbag, Size was large (euro52) and is more like a med-large than a true large The only jacket I have that is not L is this Patagonia and it is the same size but normally a M is too tight. Eg I tried on a Norrona M last week and it was very tight and all other M's I try on are too tight.
My Patagonia
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![](templates/subSilver/images/full_size.gif) And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Old Fartbag, I would say there is no room for decent layering underneath but perhaps a very thin fleece. I just tried with an icebreaker midlayer over a sweatshirt and it was okay, if a little tight but the fabric is stretchy.
It is tighter than my Salomon which it is replacing (bust zipper so using it for work outside the house) but the Phenix is half the weight.
Compared to my hagglofs couloir (in L and in this picture) I got from sport pursuit it is tighter.
So I would say it is a 1/2 size down from a true L. However, I bought it for the insulation so I have a shell and also an insulated for the cold days
.. more in a moment
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@GlasgowCyclops, Cheers.
The reason for all the questions - is every time my Daughter buys from TK Max, the sizes have either been smaller than you'd expect, or much smaller than you'd expect.
If it's a nice product, by the time you get it and find out it's too small, the size that would fit, has gone.
In the last year, I have bought 3 products from them - and 2 were incorrectly labelled, so had to go back. The correct manufacturers labels were all over the packaging - then some bright spark at TK Max stuck their own label on, showing it as a size bigger and then listed that incorrect size.
Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much on Sat 16-10-21 17:43; edited 2 times in total
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![](templates/subSilver/images/full_size.gif) You know it makes sense.
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Last pic. This time with Mons royale base layer and TNF puffa. So a base plus thin fleece is fine. But bear in mind, it does have insulation.
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![](templates/subSilver/images/full_size.gif) Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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GlasgowCyclops wrote: |
@Old Fartbag, I would say there is no room for decent layering underneath but perhaps a very thin fleece. I just tried with an icebreaker midlayer over a sweatshirt and it was okay, if a little tight but the fabric is stretchy.
It is tighter than my Salomon which it is replacing (bust zipper so using it for work outside the house) but the Phenix is half the weight.
Compared to my hagglofs couloir (in L and in this picture) I got from sport pursuit it is tighter.
So I would say it is a 1/2 size down from a true L. However, I bought it for the insulation so I have a shell and also an insulated for the cold days
.. more in a moment |
This is good info.
My Daughter has Reynauds and Low Blood Pressure and is always cold (even in the Summer, those Covid temperature scan things to get into places, didn't register and nether does an Oximeter) - so needs good insulation and room for layering. She is also Vegan, so won't entertain Down.
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![](templates/subSilver/images/full_size.gif) Poster: A snowHead
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ed123 wrote: |
pffff.
It really doesn't matter! I think it is more about the price / style and brand affiliations / perceived values.
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Welcome to the world of skiing where the price and logo matters more than the specs and the actual requirements of the user! Pretty questionable that a lot of the fancy brands don't even mention the fill weight in their down jacket specs! I remember once comparing the decathlon light down jacket to a similar Rab one, unsurprisingly the Rab one was over twice the price but weighed more while still having less fill weight at the same fill power.
As said by others down isnt the best choice for a mid layer (compressed by outer layer makes it less effective and no good if gets wet with sweat). A simple cheap fleece should be fine for the vast majority of lift served downhill skiing.
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