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Taking teenagers skiing this winter?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Hi, just going back to the start...do we yet have a definitive policy decision from the French Government re. use of ski lifts. I remember someone posting something from the Les Menuires website saying the Pass Sanitaire would not be used for ski lifts, but then further comments that this had not yet been decided for certain? Cheers.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
No. The latest advice I've seen is that there will be a decision in mid-November
https://twitter.com/skipedia/status/1452251072039424000
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
We have a holiday booked to Austria. What I can make out from the various websites is that a single dose of vaccine for a UK teenager is worthless as a means of avoiding stricter measures. In effect, they are as good as unvaccinated and will need to take (free) daily antigen tests (you cannot take your own ones), with the risk of quarantine for any of those that come back positive. This is the situation as it stands - but Austria also has various stages of response which mean that the testing regime may become stricter, eg PCR tests instead of antigen, if ICU cases in that region pass a certain point. Note that Germany also does not count a single vaccine as 'fully vaccinated' unless it is one of the vaccines specifically designed as a single shot, so that may make travel to Austria via Munch problematic too. We are hoping that things will change as, whilst the vaccine they've had will have reduced their risk, the consequences of a positive test may make the whole venture unviable. May be time to look at Switzerland instead?!
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We plan to get our 12 year old an antigen test on the drive down to the French Alps. There is a list of pharmacies here: https://www.sante.fr/cf/centres-depistage-covid.html

It costs 25 EUR and takes 20 mins to get the result, which should have a SI-DEP QR code to scan into the TousAntiCovid app on their phone. This will give a health pass for 72 hours. We'll repeat this a few days later in the resort pharmacy.

As things stand, we only really need the heath pass for the residence swimming pool. We don't plan to eat out. Ski lifts don't currently require a heath pass in France, although a final decision on this will be made early November.
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Would the pre departure test not cover the first few days. We depart Xmas day so not expecting to be able to access a pharmacie until Monday 27th, so was hoping test on 24th in UK would cover, unless resort pharmacies open on Sunday 26th. Tricky thing for us will be hotel on overnight stop on 25th as well.
I'll think I will email hotel nearer the time and see what they say.
(in my glass half full mind, I am still holding out for Gov. to do a U turn and allow a 2nd Jab, especially once more countries open up but still restrict teens.)
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Susang73 wrote:
Would the pre departure test not cover the first few days. We depart Xmas day so not expecting to be able to access a pharmacie until Monday 27th, so was hoping test on 24th in UK would cover, unless resort pharmacies open on Sunday 26th. Tricky thing for us will be hotel on overnight stop on 25th as well.
I'll think I will email hotel nearer the time and see what they say.
(in my glass half full mind, I am still holding out for Gov. to do a U turn and allow a 2nd Jab, especially once more countries open up but still restrict teens.)


I'm trying to be glass half full too snowHead (especially after last winter), but even if kids can get vaccinated, and have 2 clear weeks, if they are under 16 (MiniCF is 15), then they cannot get the NHS Covid Pass QR code (unless someone can point me in the direction of how, as I've gone around in circles on the NHS site) and will be treated as unvaccinated due to not being able to satisfactorily offer up evidence of being jabbed. Without testing every couple of days, I think France is looking less promising for me.

Looking to Sweden for some ray of light, as they don't appear to be restricting children (yet) - and the OH is Swedish, so can at least argue the case if required at customs Laughing .
https://www.swedenabroad.se/en/about-sweden-non-swedish-citizens/united-kingdom/going-to-sweden/visiting-sweden/
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Susang73 wrote:
Would the pre departure test not cover the first few days. We depart Xmas day so not expecting to be able to access a pharmacie until Monday 27th, so was hoping test on 24th in UK would cover, unless resort pharmacies open on Sunday 26th. Tricky thing for us will be hotel on overnight stop on 25th as well.
I'll think I will email hotel nearer the time and see what they say.
(in my glass half full mind, I am still holding out for Gov. to do a U turn and allow a 2nd Jab, especially once more countries open up but still restrict teens.)


The pre-departure test can be unsupervised, so would not be permitted for the health pass https://sidep.gouv.fr/cyberlab/patientviewer.jsp Also the (UK) people administering the test would not be able to generate the necessary SI-DEP QR code to scan on the TousAntiCovid app. Presumably only the French pharmacies and medical professionals have access to SI-DEP portal. That said, I believe proof of test does count as a health pass, so waving the UK paper test result might get your teenager into a restaurant, say.

As for the overnight hotel, the only restriction is on the restaurant, bar and room service. I believe you can still stay in a French hotel without a health pass (or at least I haven't seen anything that says you can't).

Also you might find pharmacy open Sat 25th Dec? I think Xmas day is a bit more of a working day over there -- others will no doubt know more on this.
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@checkmate. Nurse advised yesterday that my daughter will get the Covid pass on the app, but to wait a few days. So will try and update if it works. She may of been wrong!

Will look for pharmacies in Calais as they might be more used to tourists. I am also hoping our tour company will provide more info nearer the time as we are booked on a family week. I am happy to do the testing, just need to sort the logistics.
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Susang73 wrote:
I believe you can still stay in a French hotel without a health pass (or at least I haven't seen anything that says you can't).

Errrm, not sure about that. When we travelled to/from the Alps in August/September, our hotel scanned our TAC passes as part of checkin, before we made any reservations for dinner or breakfast. But that may be because the hotel also had a swimming pool in a separate building. I can see it's much easier for them to just ask for the TAC pass at reception/checkin, rather than separately at the swimming pool, restaurant and bar.
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Susang73 wrote:
@checkmate. Nurse advised yesterday that my daughter will get the Covid pass on the app, but to wait a few days. So will try and update if it works. She may of been wrong!

Will look for pharmacies in Calais as they might be more used to tourists. I am also hoping our tour company will provide more info nearer the time as we are booked on a family week. I am happy to do the testing, just need to sort the logistics.
This sounds promising. My 2 x 15yr olds were jabbed on 18th Oct. For a not so great reason they are entitled to a second dose 8 weeks later. I need to work out what the the exact date for that can be, as we are booked to go on 17th Dec!
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Cheesie168 wrote:
Susang73 wrote:
@checkmate. Nurse advised yesterday that my daughter will get the Covid pass on the app, but to wait a few days. So will try and update if it works. She may of been wrong!

Will look for pharmacies in Calais as they might be more used to tourists. I am also hoping our tour company will provide more info nearer the time as we are booked on a family week. I am happy to do the testing, just need to sort the logistics.
This sounds promising. My 2 x 15yr olds were jabbed on 18th Oct. For a not so great reason they are entitled to a second dose 8 weeks later. I need to work out what the the exact date for that can be, as we are booked to go on 17th Dec!


Similar boat here. MiniCF had his first last Monday, 8 weeks for jab 2 (been told he can get 2nd jab) gets me to 13th Dec, and the plan is to pick him up from his mothers on 27th/28th for a week and a bit away, somewhere snowy. It's all a bit tight, unless I can get him in for jab 2 'early' at our local walk in centre, and that is still assuming this issue with getting U16's a QR code is resolved. @Susang73 I hope your nurse's information is correct, for everyone's sake.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
I have also tried to get hold of proof of vaccination either via the app or a paper cp[y but have also found that this is not available to under 16s. I'm not sure the card with a handwritten date/batch number and a smiley face is going to cut it rolling eyes
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We are heading to France for New Year and Austria for half term - making up for lost time! Will be with a single jabbed 14 year old and an 11 year old. All so confusing, not to mention the fact it's not unlikely the older one could actually be positive for the trip. Will have to hope the craziness when the season starts means that changes have to be made. (And pray there aren't more restrictions placed on UK tourists in the meantime)
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Looks like the US might be the most reliable option - under 18s will not be required to be vaccinated. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/children-vaccine-us-travel-rules-b1945066.html
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Soozm wrote:
Will have to hope the craziness when the season starts means that changes have to be made.

Who are you expecting to make changes? The only changes you can hope for are the UK giving second jabs and vaccine passports or UK case rates falling off a cliff . There is not much chance of foreign governments suddenly allowing the demographic with the highest incidence in Europe (currently over 1900 /100000 in 10 to 14) to run about unchecked. It's actually more likely that they will require 2 or 3 PCR tests per week in Austria the way case numbers are here atm.
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 Poster: A snowHead
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https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/covid-scotland-families-with-teens-will-not-be-able-to-travel-abroad-says-expert-linda-bauld-3432218?utm_campaign=scot-news-api&utm_medium=email&_hsmi=175098369&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-9zNJdWQIkWYP3A9ZCpDfrhM4FnvAMu-0Y48VReA6e3gAlasAHXlxaBjrSUGCCgb_LmXhQvAh-tTBhkD3IseaMHSfJzfw&utm_content=175098369&utm_source=hs_email
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
snowdave wrote:
Looks like the US might be the most reliable option - under 18s will not be required to be vaccinated. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/children-vaccine-us-travel-rules-b1945066.html


While hopefully true w/r/t travel, Vail Resorts/EPIC (Vail, Breck, Park City, etc) has a policy requiring "full" vaccination to eat indoors on the mountain, with a knock on effect of requiring "full" vaccination to do all day ski school. Admittedly a smaller problem than we're seeing in France where it extends to all restaurants and cafes, etc, but was still enough for me to decide to give North America a swerve this winter. Less faff on QR codes though, so perhaps worth a shot (literally, US pharmacies will jab anyone). IKON (Jackson Hole) does not, as far as I am aware, so that may be an option (was too late for us to switch, and the sunk cost of EPIC passes stuck in the craw).
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@skibeskibe, I think u18s are allowed in restaurants etc in Austria without being vaccinated? Just need to test every 3 days. Very happy to be corrected on this as several trips lined up with the kids from NY.
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@Snowsartre, that is sort of true. Testing is sufficient but depending on level of people in intensive care may have to be PCR tests and entry to Apres ski will only be to vaccinated and recovered not tested. Antigen tests are now only valid for 24 hours.
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@Chris_n, That's helpful, thank you - presumably a restaurant does not count as Après?
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@Snowsartre, normal restaurants do not count as Aprés.
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So...If I am reading things correctly, in the absence of case rates increasing in Austria, even to get into restaurants single-vaccinated UK teenagers will need to do an antigen test every 24 hours. If an antigen comes back positive, you have to isolate and wait for PCR test results. If the PCR is also positive, then they must isolate and are not allowed to travel anywhere by train or plane. From the Austria.info website:

Public health officers can decide whether individuals are allowed to travel home, e.g. by private car. Train or plane journeys are not permitted with suspected or confirmed symptoms.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Just to give you real world examples of having been in Europe lately. It's completely impractical for establishments to scan and check every single person that walks through the door. Think about a typical EU mountain restaurant. Someone with a scanner? It pinging "red" with a cross, even though you have a correct bar code. That was happening all last week in Italy and that was in a quiet restaurant. You really think that they can even remotely cope with that kind of check? No way... in the end, I'd say 90% of places didn't even check.

We also swapped bar codes and just too a photo of someone's that worked and shard the same one. There was no logic as to why my covid passport didn't work one day and did the next etc.

And the concept of doing PCR tests every few days... seriously.. places are already taking of reducing these and using antigens. But i got back to my point, how do you think ski bars and restaurants are really going to police and manage this?

And the fact it's so easy to share bar codes and save them in your wallet that aren't yours. Just like it's easy for people to take your Covid test for you (as so many are doing now with fit to flys) - something has to change as the ski industry won't survive if it makes it impossible for guests to visit.

Alex
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I get that restaurants etc are varied in their diligence - which is all fine for adults. However, the thread is specifically with regards to single vaccinated teenagers whoa re not counted as fully vaccinated in the EU and even if they were, are not able at the current time to get either a digital or paper proof of vaccination.

The problem with daily antigen tests is not so much the having them (although having to queue up at the pharmacy every morning might be a bit of a PITA), but the consequences of ending up with a positive result. As with much of last winter, very low risk but high potential consequence. Great to spend a few days up in the mountains, not so great to spend 10 days with a family of 5 stuck some godforsaken hotel room on the outskirts of an industrial estate.
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PCR tests are available free in Austria, they will very quickly become the default test type as from 1st Nov you must be vaccinated, recovered or tested to go to work unless you work alone. The local pharmacy here does them, I am sure resorts will set up testing facilities probably close to the main lifts. I don't know how practical policing it in every restaurant on the mountain will be but you need to be tested etc to use the lift anyway. Maybe people who are vaxxed will get full validity on lift passes but tested will have to verify before first lift for each test period.
@Alex A, it's not the ski industry that need to change, it is the UK government. Why would we want to allow the most heavily infected group in Europe to run around our mountains and towns untested? As for swapping bar codes etc if the police here catch you in a random check or if a hotel etc suspects you are doing so you can expect a very heavy fine payable immediately and will probably be told to leave the country immediately at your own cost.
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I ask the question what makes skiing and ski resorts so special that everything needs to be more complicated? It's not this complicated to travel with kids right now. It's looking like it's going to be easiest to stay at home "again".
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I guess the answer is that it's not the ski resorts that think they are special, rather the UK govt for having its own 'special' policy with regards to vaccinating teenagers that is out of kilter with the rest of Europe. We rather compound that 'special' quality by assuming that ski resorts can't possibly survive without our UK custom, when in actual fact it's probably more than enough to have other European visitors who are all set up and can access hospitality, lifts etc without providing testing facilities. We were on the continent over the summer - there were very few Brits there but plenty of tourists from neighbouring European countries.
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@Alex A, it has nothing to do with skiing and ski resorts and everything to do with governments.The one that is massively out of line is the UK government, nearly all of the rest of Europe have been vaccinating teenagers for quite some time. If the UK had vaccinated teenagers with 2 doses as all of the others are the rate amongst 10 - 14 year olds wouldn't be over 1900 now. Austrian press are today again running pieces on how bad the UK is. Ski resorts are looking forward to welcoming guests safely not inflicting UK teenage rates on the rest of the world.
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You know it makes sense.
@Alex A, I'm not sure what you're point is? I don't think ski resorts are trying to be more complicated.

I think thing would be more difficult though, especially during peak times.

I'd also argue that it is fairly complicated (or at least a massive pain in the backside) to travel with kids right now. A test before you go, another test when you get there if you actually want to do anything (as the UK tests don't count). And even if they did count, there is ambiguity around whether the test can be self administered or not. And this is made even more annoying when my son, who technically would be eligible for the pass sanitaire for 6 months (because of prior infection) can't get on it because the NHS won't release his data.
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@Chris_n, @skibeskibe, This is the simple - and very painful - truth. Cataclysmic political leadership in UK since at least 2015.
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 Poster: A snowHead
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hang a sec all... as someone with 2 girls aged 13 and 15, do you really think it's a good idea and required to vaccinate teenagers? The risk level etc? Come on.,.. and I certainly wouldn't make the wrong decision just so we can go on holiday!

My girls made their own decision. I think the stats show that the UK government in this case is actually looking at their interests and health.

I want to continue to take my girls away as much as the next person, but I won't force them to have a second vaccine (not even possible) because other EU countries have decided this is their stance and it stops you from your annual ski holiday...

I'd much prefer the whole world see sense and realise this isn't a sustainable model for travel. PS this is my livelihood and I'm working day in day out as a leader of a travel company. So trust me, I have vested interests to get travel up and running fast. Corporate more so than personal albeit.

Alex
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Timmycb5 wrote:
@Alex A, I'm not sure what you're point is? I don't think ski resorts are trying to be more complicated.

A test before you go, another test when you get there if you actually want to do anything (as the UK tests don't count). And even if they did count, there is ambiguity around whether the test can be self administered or not. And this is made even more annoying when my son, who technically would be eligible for the pass sanitaire for 6 months (because of prior infection) can't get on it because the NHS won't release his data.


You are referring to France here, Austria will accept a UK test with a certificate, if you got a pre travel PCR you could use that for your first couple of days.
As far as the proof of recovery is concerned I believe an antibody test can be used for 3 months here ( don't quote me on that but I'm sure I saw something about that in the press last night).
It is past time everyone with these issues were contacting MP's / press and generally kicking up a fuss if anything is to be changed.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@Chris_n, yes I was referring to France. I was under the impression that a UK test wasn't recognised on the TAC system. Perhaps that is incorrect or something has changed?

Interesting about the antibody test. Again I wasn't aware of that. I would, presumably, need to get this done in France as the NHS won't release any data for anyone under 16.
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@Alex A, problem is all of the other governments have thought the risk is worthwhile, I certainly haven't seen reports of lots of kids being rushed to hospital with Myocarditis. I have read many articles that suggest these risks are much higher for natural infection anyway.
As far as sustainability is concerned it only isn't sustainable for UK. We will be full of Germans, Dutch, Belgian, Danish etc same as usual.
It's not stopping you from skiing just means you need PCR tests every 3 days which isn't really a problem. We were having to get tested every other day last winter to ski.
As leader of a travel company I can't understand why you would be condoning swapping barcodes!


Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Tue 26-10-21 14:59; edited 1 time in total
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@Timmycb5, bear in mind I am talking about Austria, but might be worth looking into for France. The requirements for Austria is for test results to be in English or German, nothing needs to be scanned in to an app.
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https://inews.co.uk/inews-lifestyle/travel/travel-rules-for-under-16s-explained-entry-requirements-vaccine-passports-and-covid-tests-for-uk-teens-1244725/amp
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@Chris n I can't quite work out why it is not more of an issue already - is it that people who have holidays booked have yet to realise that there are hoops to jump through if teenagers are booked too? This may the case - most travel company websites are not shouting about it.

I would have thought that people travelling abroad with teenagers this half term will have run into problems but it doesn't seem to be a thing
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@skibeskibe, probably because there are no issues with travel to Spain or Portugal as in @Alex A link. Only requirement is pre departure tests, but in reality only difference for skiing is 2 more tests during the week.
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@Chris_n, hey.. I'm not condoning swopping bar codes or taking tests for other people, simply stating what is actually happening in the real world. Imagine you are sat at a restaurant and you know you have a valid NHS covid pass, but it's failing and pinging "red" instead of the green tick. The owner of the restaurant wants to comply, so they just scan someone else's pass twice. Home based antigen tests for fit to fly are another process that totally flawed. When they were video based they were much more secure.

So my point is that that this cannot be the new world we live in and be sustainable. You wait till you are in a busy resort and you'll find they don't have time to check a fraction of the people.

Alex
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Alex A - That wasn't the case in the ski resorts that I visited this summer in France. Every restaurant/cafe we went in insisted that you passed the scan or they wouldn't let you stay. This included my mother in law, who got sent packing from a small mountain restaurant, despite having her official paper copy of the NHS certificate and a copy on her phone, that just wouldn't scan for whatever reason.
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