 Poster: A snowHead
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| Chaletbeauroc wrote: |
| davidof wrote: |
hours are supposed to be paid and legal, volunteer, coaching etc doesn't count (in theory) |
| kitenski wrote: |
@davidof, Interesting (and not that I'd do my L3) but where does it specify that?
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In practice the requirement is (or was when I did my BASI L3 but it won't have changed) that you provide a letter from an accredited ski school confirming that you've worked there in whatever capacity for at least the required number of hours. |
Yes for ISIA it says 200 logged hours in a ski school - no mention of pay but I assume they mean professional hours of teaching and note what Ski Mottaret says. I'd imagine at least a couple of seasons to do that realistically at L2 level. Indeed being in the UK and then logging 50 hours with Interski would probably be easiest.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I'd echo what skimottaret has said, having a similar experience on my L3 Teach exam with people who had or did not have that amount of proper teaching experience working with real clients. After my L2 I also continued with shadowing hours in addition to getting 200+ hours of teaching experience, working with BASI trainers in Les Arcs and Courchevel, as I found it so helpful in developing my ideas for teaching.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@skimottaret, ticking clock when it comes to age related ability to pass Eurotest?
Though more generally I'd agree. What is the point of badge collecting if it isn't to further your ability to pursue your passion with that passion being teaching NOT skiing? I'm not sure the OP is trying to avoid the teaching it's more that bureucracy stands in his way and if he can't teach he might as well train to progress in other ways.
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| ...ticking clock when it comes to age related ability to pass Eurotest? |
Unless things have changed since I last looked at the BASI guidance, as a result of Brexit it's no longer possible for a UK citizen to submit for the Eurotest.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| skimottaret wrote: |
| If your goal is to enjoy a mountain based life, that doesn’t necessarily mean you have to teach skiing to earn a crust. |
The goal of having a mountain based life seems to have been achieved.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| Unless things have changed since I last looked at the BASI guidance, as a result of Brexit it's no longer possible for a UK citizen to submit for the Eurotest. |
given it is an EEA/EU thing that makes sense although the French have asked applicants for the "carte pro" to take the Eurotest - I imagine this is the usual French side qualification stuff they get up to. In other words it is a Eurotest in all but name for a non EU/EEA national.
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Wed 11-10-23 14:50; edited 2 times in total
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| Quote: |
Unless things have changed since I last looked at the BASI guidance, as a result of Brexit it's no longer possible for a UK citizen to submit for the Eurotest.
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I can't find anything official about this in a quick Google... I'll look more thoroughly later... But anecdotely, it is possible for a British Citizen to do the Eurotest if they have long term residency in a European country.
I agree with what @skimottaret is saying about more teaching experience making the L3 and L4 Teach courses infinitely more enjoyable, useful and less traumatic!
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| davidof wrote: |
| given it is an EEA/EU thing that makes sense. |
It was certainly inevitable, as was highlighted in some Brexit debates by some Brit ski instructors trying to point out the folly of leaving to the minority (it seems) of Brit ski instructors who thought voting to leave would be a good idea.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| It was certainly inevitable, as was highlighted in some Brexit debates by some Brit ski instructors trying to point out the folly of leaving to the minority (it seems) of Brit ski instructors who thought voting to leave would be a good idea. |
Even for L4 ski instructors it must make life harder in a number of ways unless they are also EU passport holders.
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| SaraJ wrote: |
| I can't find anything official about this in a quick Google... I'll look more thoroughly later... But anecdotely, it is possible for a British Citizen to do the Eurotest if they have long term residency in a European country. |
I think* EU residency and membership of an EU based national association is necessary, as applications to enter the Eurotest/CTT are done via your national association. As the UK is no longer a member of the EU, BASI is not able to enter its members in the EU's CTT.
I think EU residency and Irish Association of Snowsport Instructors, for example, provides a route to the CTT, but UK citizenship without EU residency means you'd have to do the ISIA Speed Test, but that's not recognised in some/all (?) EU jurisdictions.
* It's been a couple of years since I last looked at this, so I might be entirely wrong.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@rob@rar, That sounds right.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| davidof wrote: |
| Chaletbeauroc wrote: |
| davidof wrote: |
hours are supposed to be paid and legal, volunteer, coaching etc doesn't count (in theory) |
| kitenski wrote: |
@davidof, Interesting (and not that I'd do my L3) but where does it specify that?
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In practice the requirement is (or was when I did my BASI L3 but it won't have changed) that you provide a letter from an accredited ski school confirming that you've worked there in whatever capacity for at least the required number of hours. |
Yes for ISIA it says 200 logged hours in a ski school - no mention of pay but I assume they mean professional hours of teaching and note what Ski Mottaret says. I'd imagine at least a couple of seasons to do that realistically at L2 level. Indeed being in the UK and then logging 50 hours with Interski would probably be easiest. |
The BASI requirement is for any work in a ski school, not just instructing, so could include taking bookings or other organisational tasks. I was lucky enough to be living in the mountains when I did mine, and with regular teaching most weekends and sometime in the week it was easy enough to get the hours in a couple of seasons.t
EDIT: Wrong! As pointed out, this was only for the L1/2 experience, for L3 it was indeed teaching hours.
I agree with the other sentiments expressed, that there isn't really any substitute for real teaching. As was always said at the time, the L2 is really just the start of learning to be a good instructor and without a lot of real experience most people would really struggle to reach the next level. And you need a passion for it. It's not just about ticking boxes, you really need
to work at it, so I doubt that anyone who's ultimate goal is not to work as an instructor is going to have the patience and commitment to see it through.
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Wed 11-10-23 15:18; edited 2 times in total
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| Chaletbeauroc wrote: |
| The BASI requirement is for any work in a ski school, not just instructing, so could include taking bookings or other organisational tasks. |
Does that only apply to L1 and L2 qualifications, but L3 requires teaching experience rather than ski school experience? These are the BASI requirements for L3, which seems to state these are teaching hours:
| Quote: |
One of the modules for the Level 3 ISIA is 200 hrs Teaching Experience. These hours are recommended to be completed between successful completion of the Level 2 Instructor qualification and commencement of the Level 3 ISIA Teaching courses of the Level 3 ISIA qualification. It is strongly recommended that the majority of these hours are completed in a mountain environment. A maximum of 50 of these hours can be coaching hours and a maximum of 50 hours can be completed at slopes using Maxxtracks technology, such as Skiplex or Chel-ski**.
Please Note: The 200 logged, signed teaching hours (shadowing hours will not be accepted) must be on your Snowsport School headed paper or other official document and signed by the Snowsport School Manager or Director to demonstrate proof that you have completed this requirement.
Students can only book Level 3 modules once they hold their full Level 2 qualification (i.e. have completed 70 hours Snowports School experience)
Students are permitted to book on to Level 3 courses without 200 hours Teaching Experience. It is recommended that these hours should be completed prior to the commencement of the Level 3 Teaching course, but it is not a requirement.
Students need to complete these 200 hours Teaching Experience to achieve the Level 3 qualification. |
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You know it makes sense.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| Chaletbeauroc wrote: |
| The BASI requirement is for any work in a ski school, not just instructing, so could include taking bookings or other organisational tasks. |
Does that only apply to L1 and L2 qualifications, but L3 requires teaching experience rather than ski school experience? |
Yes, you're right, I misremembered and confused the two.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Lots of points here, that all make sense.
I'll clear some points up, I absolutely want to teach full time, without a doubt. I do not enjoy being an accountant, that's one of the reasons for starting this all in the first place. However, on the flip side, being an accountant is the only reason i'm able to have moved to Austria.
@Dave of the Marmottes pretty much hits the head on the nail. Age isn't on my side so much, i've turned 33 now and the post Brexit bureaucracy makes it very difficult to teach nowadays. I could do 90 days with Interski a year, but I don't view them as a company as a long term solution. So as Dave says, if I can't teach, I want to at least tick off as many qualifications as I can. As an example I could be ticking off all my logged tours and then doing my L2 Off Piste module (IASI's name for it). That doesn't require teaching experience as such, but I can't do that without my L3. I can do my logged tours, but I can't take the next exam. That's just lost time in my eyes.
Re Eurotest, wouldn't even want to begin getting in to the technicalities of if I can or can't take one, but I can take the ISIA Speed test (as I did in April). My plan is to train GS this winter, I just need to find a club to do so with. I'm also hoping to enter the Tyrol Master GS races.
Re taking the L3 teach without the necessary hours, i've also been really 50/50 on this. I'm desperate to teach to gain more experience, which is why i'm looking to use Annual Leave to go and do some hours with Interski. Friends that I met in April on my courses think I would be fine to pass the exam, based on spending weeks together training and doing exams. So because it's being run local, that's why i'm thinking of doing it, but I would agree with absolutely everyone, that I need teaching experience and that's why it's exasperating that I can't teach even for no pay, despite having a job offer and staring at the lifts from my lounge!
All I can do is use what annual leave I can to teach with Interski, and focus on improving my own skiing. I'm completely bound to Austrian rules which means I can't teach here until the winter season of 25/26.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| swskier wrote: |
| Re Eurotest, wouldn't even want to begin getting in to the technicalities of if I can or can't take one, but I can take the ISIA Speed test (as I did in April). My plan is to train GS this winter, I just need to find a club to do so with. I'm also hoping to enter the Tyrol Master GS races. |
Maybe contact the Masters people at the Austrian Ski Federation first, see if they can suggest a club, their race insurance could be worth taking out as well.
There is also the FIS Masters circuit, the Austrian leg of that this winter is in Wildschönau, you would need a licence from GB Snowsport to enter them.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| rjs wrote: |
Maybe contact the Masters people at the Austrian Ski Federation first, see if they can suggest a club, their race insurance could be worth taking out as well.
There is also the FIS Masters circuit, the Austrian leg of that this winter is in Wildschönau, you would need a licence from GB Snowsport to enter them. |
Good shout, I'll try speaking with the Tirol Skiverband.
I had seen the FIS masters was in Wildschönau, and was also intending to enter that as well, but I do need to investigate the FIS license with GB snowsport. Finals are also in Austria, not that I'd get an entry to that.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@swskier, There are no restrictions on entering the FIS Masters finals, I just hadn't looked all the way down the calendar, Cortina isn't far for you either.
Check out the Austrian insurance first, you may need that for the FIS licence.
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| swskier wrote: |
| rjs wrote: |
Maybe contact the Masters people at the Austrian Ski Federation first, see if they can suggest a club, their race insurance could be worth taking out as well.
There is also the FIS Masters circuit, the Austrian leg of that this winter is in Wildschönau, you would need a licence from GB Snowsport to enter them. |
Good shout, I'll try speaking with the Tirol Skiverband.
I had seen the FIS masters was in Wildschönau, and was also intending to enter that as well, but I do need to investigate the FIS license with GB snowsport. Finals are also in Austria, not that I'd get an entry to that. |
Give me a shout if you are heading this way.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Chris_n, will do. I have the Tirol snowcard, so hoping to check out a few places local to the Zillertal throughout the season.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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you can become a member in https://www.skiaustria.at/
you have automatically insurance for accidents, heli rescue etc etc and i think they have something about races.
Dont bother to search it but maybe is what you are looking for
https://skiaustria.sichermitknox.com/rennsport-kv
they have also some camps that maybe interesting.
It is not the same with Tirol Skiverband. The Skiverband is for ski instructors.
Ski Austria ist for ski athletes races etc.
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@turms2, I had looked at the Masters info here.
I was expecting that there would be an Austrian Masters circuit in parallel to the FIS one, like there is in France. If there isn't then there may be less benefit in getting an Austrian race licence. There may be some "all age groups" races.
A FIS race licence needs to be from the same country as your passport. The GB one doesn't include race insurance so you need to get this elsewhere.
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If teaching isn't possible till 25/26 and L4 is your main goal I would suggest focus on training GS in the short term and hopefully getting your ISIA test under your belt prior to being able to teach professionally locally. How far out were you on your first attempt? If over 1/2 sec I would suggest doing more training and mock tests as opposed to rocking up for Masters races. Actual races are useful for getting "game day" experience and running in rutted courses if you are very close to the level, but if not I would suggest training would be a better use of time. You mentioned your Longs at L3 were borderline so Im guessing you will need to put a bit more work in there to get into the mix to have a decent shot at the speed test. Mid 30's shouldn't pose a big problem in terms of age and the ISIA test is quite a bit more achievable than the CTT/ET.
Another option you may have not considered is once you get your IASI L3 you could then apply for Landerschilehrer via equivalence. Having an Austrian qualification may help with obtaining a Visa, and, may reduce the pressure/requirement to go for the L4 at all costs. I got my Lands that way via the equivalence route using my BASI L3 license in 2017 and it was pretty straightforward. It was recognised in the Tirol and worked fine there until Brexit when they changed the rules slightly and I haven't used it since so not sure what the current state of play is on working rights in the Tirol.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@skimottaret, I mostly suggested contacting the Austrian Masters to try to find a group to train with. A FIS Masters GS is only one run, so isn't particularly good value in terms of time or money.
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@skimottaret, training GS was going to be my focus if I couldn't teach, and given I was nowhere near the number in Zermatt, its training I need, and that'll improve my longs which is needed anyway.
I've emailed a couple of the local clubs to see what's possible as a masters racer, I get the impression that these clubs are pretty kids focused rather than adults.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| swskier wrote: |
@skimottaret, training GS was going to be my focus if I couldn't teach, and given I was nowhere near the number in Zermatt, its training I need, and that'll improve my longs which is needed anyway.
I've emailed a couple of the local clubs to see what's possible as a masters racer, I get the impression that these clubs are pretty kids focused rather than adults. |
My son trained with the local ski club before he did his Landeslehrer a couple of years ago, he is 38 now so passed at 36. His background is ski racing until about 12 then snowboarding (holidays only) and ice hockey for a few years. When he came to Austria to do a dual Anwarter he hadn't skied for 13 years, we went to Stubai for a few days and within half an hour I couldn't get near him. He always did well in end of season instructor races but did need to polish up a little to be confident the GS test wasn't going to be a problem. While the local clubs may be mainly kids focused on social media etc there is always someone willing to help adults who want to improve, just like dry slope clubs in UK used to be when my kids raced ( don't know how it is now but can't see it changing much).
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Chris_n wrote: |
My son trained with the local ski club before he did his Landeslehrer a couple of years ago, he is 38 now so passed at 36. His background is ski racing until about 12 then snowboarding (holidays only) and ice hockey for a few years. When he came to Austria to do a dual Anwarter he hadn't skied for 13 years, we went to Stubai for a few days and within half an hour I couldn't get near him. He always did well in end of season instructor races but did need to polish up a little to be confident the GS test wasn't going to be a problem. While the local clubs may be mainly kids focused on social media etc there is always someone willing to help adults who want to improve, just like dry slope clubs in UK used to be when my kids raced ( don't know how it is now but can't see it changing much). |
That's really handy to know, like you say their social media is all kids focused.
Sounds similar to the dry slope club I joined in October 21. I've been doing some SL training and races, and that's really all my back ground.
Did 2 days GS training with Podium in Zinal and the speedtest in April, but was miles off the mark.
Have contacted the Mayrhofen and Hippach clubs to no avail so far, might also give Zell am Ziller a go too, then I'll start asking some people we've met if they know who runs these clubs, it's a small place so everyone knows everyone!
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Zell am Ziller came back to me really quick to let me know they only cater up to 14 year olds, and that Mayrhofen and Hippach are similar.
The hunt will continue for some training!
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You know it makes sense.
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@swskier,Where are you intending to 'settle' as a ski teacher with ISIA?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@flangesax, likely where we are in the Zillertal, but not for definite. It's also down to how Mrs swskier finds work etc. We're open to anywhere in Austria, but most likely only Austria as that's where our visa means we have to be.
I have this long term vision/dream of running a British ski school in somewhere like Mayrhofen. Like what's common in France where you have British focussed ski schools, this doesn't seem to exist in the popular British places here, so feel like there's a bit of a niche in the market there. However, i'm aware of what's required to run a ski school here, so need to go beyond just a L4 qualification.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@swskier, so what will you do about the CTT? Austria don't let third country nationals take it.
It is needed for the Staatliche which gives you independence as a private instructor with no ski school office.
It is all a bit confusing since Brexit and the withdrawing from ISIA.
There are a few teachers now hitting this block.
They have been allowed on the approval course and then knocked back for the actual training as they have no CTT and Austria won't let them take the course!
I'm guessing the L4 has the CTT?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@flangesax, applying for an Austrian passport in the future is a possibility which would remove any EU issues.
I'd also look in to a conversion from IASI to the Austrian quals if possible.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| swskier wrote: |
@flangesax, applying for an Austrian passport in the future is a possibility which would remove any EU issues.
I'd also look in to a conversion from IASI to the Austrian quals if possible. |
You can apply via IASI to do the CTT Speed Test in Italy, and apply directly for tests in Switzerland and France. Fede Sollini should be able to advise on doing the Swiss test (which I think will be the ISIA speed test). I'm not sure if you can apply for the EU Speedtest as a UK national, maybe you could with an IASI qualification, but there won't be a problem if you get an Austrian passport plus an IASI qualification.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Thanks @rob@rar i thought there was a work around but it is still a stumbling block for Austrian trained 3rd country nationals. We have no IASI!
@swskier, Unfortunately there are no conversions to the Austrian pathway.
There are 'work arounds' by going down the coaching route and creating a ski club but one thing Austria doesn't like is playing the system!
As for the passport option. That is also not an easy route. It is one of the hardest countries globally to be nationalised in. My kids (17 years here and 15 years and born here) started the process 3 years ago. I have just payed the bills so I think we are at the last hurdle!
They didn't have to do any language tests or prove that they were integrated. Anything under 11 (I think) years requires an integration test and all adults require a language test plus a bucket load of cash or income (more than an indie ski teacher can generate  ).
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Just to note that some BASI CPDs count towards shadowing hours.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I note that this thread began in May of 2021. The effort, commitment and money that you will have poured into your "journey". I simply question if you feel there will be any form of return.
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@Rogerdodger, I went thru my BASI L2, I've had a massive return in enjoying skiing loads more, I was getting very "stale" beforehand and also met some great people on my (limited) journey. For me it was well worth it without ever actually earning money from teaching (Which was the plan at one stage prior to Brexit)
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@Rogerdodger, yes, my plan is still to teach, so yes, i'll start to earn a return.
But similarly to @kitenski i've met some great people (a mate is coming for the weekend start of November to ski up on the glacier that I met on the speedtest) plus i'm still regularly in touch with people from my L3 exams that i'll ski with again in the future.
And I've probably earned in the region of £1000 on the dry slope too 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Delighted for you @swskier, your enthusiasm is to be applauded and I hope brings you success.
Similarly @kitenski, the "journey" gave your skiing a new dynamic, moving you away from the staleness.
A good friend achieved his BASI 2 about 4 seasons ago. To say he worked hard is an understatement, he has never taught since....
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| Rogerdodger wrote: |
Delighted for you @swskier, your enthusiasm is to be applauded and I hope brings you success.
Similarly @kitenski, the "journey" gave your skiing a new dynamic, moving you away from the staleness.
A good friend achieved his BASI 2 about 4 seasons ago. To say he worked hard is an understatement, he has never taught since.... |
Thank you, my skiing had plateaued for some time, before I went away with better skiers for a couple of holidays, but then they moved to Canada, and I was back to skiing with the girlfriend which was good, but didn't force to become better.
I think instructor exams can be a good way to improve, and measure that improvement, so I do understand why people would do them without ever wanting to teach.
For me, covid was the real emphasis to try and change something. Accountancy has never been enjoyable for me, but it meant I could afford to go skiing once or twice a year. That winter we couldn't leave the country or ski was the kick up the rear to do something to change things in life, and i've loved it so far.
Has it cost me a fortune? Yes
Could I have done it for less cost? Yes
Could I have got this good without doing instructor exams? Yes
Would I have had as much motivation to do so? I'm not sure, possibly not.
Has it opened my eyes to what life could become? 100% and I wouldn't change the "journey" as a result.
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FAQ
