Is Season 2021/22 going to happen for the British or for Anyone Else

A snowHead

So..........Can I go skiing next year then? Very Happy

A snowHead

@skinomad, So thats a no then?

When I said the 'season 2021/22' I think most folk understood my meaning that I referred to one as close to normal (as in what we have known all our sliding lives) as we can ever expect to have again.

I really hope that isn't the end of the thread and that come October I will be commenting that I've booked and that by the end of January reporting that it was actually great and much better than I had dared to hope. Maybe even that I've booked another week?

Of course it would be lovely if it was the end of this thread for ever but right now the same thread being started for 2022/23 is slightly more likely I'm afraid.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

You need to Login to know who's really who.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

@Timmycb5, Yes, I'm sure it is for some folks and that suits them perfectly. Not for me though and I suspect any others who like the luxuries and entertainment. Each to their own etc?

You'll need to Register first of course.

I'm confident that there will be some form of skiing allowed for Brits next year. Already booked on 2 Snowhead bashes, albeit carried forward from this year. Contemplating the Psb, which will probably be a good test, although least likely unless the EU gets it's vaccinations sorted.

It might mean table service only in Bars, masks in communal areas, table service rather than buffet in hotels etc
plus cancelation of Karaoke - maybe some clouds have a silver lining.. Very Happy

Currently I would put anything prior to Christmas at less than 50/50, but prospects of mid to late season higher.

Probably best to book later in the season, and then take a chance on a last minute deal in the earlier part, subject to the situation in your chosen resort/Country.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

After all it is free

Verbier has been mostly-sort-of open this season. The mountain restaurants are open if you sit outdoors. Some of them pretend not to see people eating inside but the only available places are the self-service types. Silly really as we were allowed to eat indoors when the C19 figures were much worse around Xmas time.

It's been more like a training camp this year than a normal season. Lots of naughty parties exceeding the various limits on numbers but no real atmosphere. A bit jollier at the moment but with everything shut on the 18th and most of the four valleys on the 11th it won't last long. Punters on the lifts frequently bad-tempered.

I'm delighted I got out here as a winter at home would've been utterly miserable. Like many I save and plan all year for winter and that's bad enough. I'm very thankful too for the luck I had getting out here with quarantines and all that balls too.

If France, Germany etc are similar next year then it won't be the worst thing if you really, really like skiing and were sent to a boarding school. If you'd like a real holiday with nice meals, making-merry-in-the-streets etc then bad luck I'm afraid.

@porkpiefox, no worries, its inevitable to go off course as so many aspects of what will happen depend on so many of the other factors so widely discussed on other threads. As long as we bring it back to the basic question of sliding or not.

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

@boobleblooble, I'm delighted I got out here as a winter at home would've been utterly miserable.

Same here. I decided last July that I would be skiing this winter as usual although no restaurants etc. And I would have been a seriously grumpy bear if I hadn't made the effort. Even if I got turned back somewhere along the journey, at least I knew I had tried.
Ski chum in local hospital said they were far busier in afternoons with ski injuries - one afternoon 3 helicopters arriving simultaneously. Cold, hungry and tired skiers with no where to rest and catch a breath.

snow reports

@robboj, yes what a stupid rule. I remember a joke photo going round last summer with a typical Brit couple smiling in a photo, except they had mask tan-lines. Now it's coming true!

@colinstone, yeah a lot of deaths here in a short space of time. Apparently the reputation of the resort is for people pushing their luck anyway.

Had one very bad day with a Brit instructor killed and another in his group seriously injured. A week later two Guides dead. Not a great season.

I'm also pretty certain from my view that the punters are particularly bad. One group of instructors working towards their BASI level 4 had someone taken out by a punter and is unable to walk due to fractures/tears at the moment.

@robboj, yeah. Thing is I'm going with my family and (nearly) 80 year old father who can still ski a red run. Self cater and social distancing is pretty much what we did pre pandemic. Lots of hot chocolate and everyone in bed by nine.

That said, it may not be possible or safe. So, I have what is best described as a call option on accommodation rather than a booking. Flights or trains will get booked way closer to the time.

The gorilla "boys weekend", which is approximately 50% girls, is looking doubtful.

You know it makes sense.

@gorilla, We're only 60s, and whilst we do like a nice meal out, it's the being out there, in our own (rented) place that we enjoy. Apres wise, we're 2 drinks and off home pair! We'd be more than happy with that.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

I do miss apres music, dancing etc though. I was never a massive La Folie fan for instance but it was fun to watch.

A snowHead

It's a strange thing in a way and depends on just how strict it is. At one point last summer there was talk of what I've previously described as Butlins-on-snow. Closed bars, even in hotels, fixed time slots for meals and access to the major cable cars and gondolas. Even things like being restricted to certain lifts and areas of a resort depending upon your accommodation. All mountain restaurants closed, no aprés. All leisure facilities in hotels shut.

Add to that the expense and hassle of testing to whatever extent with the ultimate stress of being held in country for an extra fortnight, maybe more, at my expense.

We're not party animals but a bit of aprés a couple of times in the week is fun as is just doing as you please when you please. Such as staying in the hotel and using the spa if its a whiteout blizzard. It just doesn't add up to a holiday for me, more like an ordeal. None of us go sliding because it's a cheap and easy holiday but I won't pay the usual money and maybe much more for an ordeal?

A snowHead

@robboj, I'm curious as to how far any requirement to quarantine is an insurable risk. That potentially makes a lot of difference.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

@gorilla, I'm not sure thats ever been concluded, on here or elsewhere. Whilst the cost is far from a minor issue I just wouldn't risk the inconvenience and stress. There was talk for a while in, iirc, the Tirol of daily testing of guests. Imagine waking up every day wondering if the day would end in the bar or in quarantine. No thanks!

You need to Login to know who's really who.

@robboj, Allianz travel policy seems to cover the risk of quarantine as a result of contracting a pandemic disease, although I am going off the website, not the policy wording. I cannot find anyone who will cover the risk of having to quarantine on return to the UK, which is not a surprise.

As such, I'm more confident that I could mitigate the risk associated with a 2wk enforced stay in a ski resort. The risk of having to self-isolate is a constant now, whether you are on holiday or not. I just need to make sure I travel with my work laptop.

That said, I fully expect to bin this project at some point in early 2022.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

@gorilla, Interesting to know but I don't think it changes my mind. Don't want to start a tangent to the thread but the whole issue of asymptomatic positives just makes the risk too great. That said every time we go on a sliding holiday we risk an enforced extended stay due to injury. I accept that and go anyway but it would be easier to accept psychologically if you're actually injured or for that matter ill with covid or whatever. Being stuck for two weeks with all the attendant business hassle because of a contact trace or a test of questionable reliability says I'm ill when I feel fine is not something I'm willing to risk... yet. Maybe if 21/22 really doesn't happen I'll be sufficiently desparate by 22/23 ?

You'll need to Register first of course.

@robboj, same here, for me it is the testing holding me back from booking. I’ve been vaccinated but could not risk another two weeks self isolating overseas because I tested positive two days before our date of return.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

I think Switzerland this season is a useful model of what things might looks like generally next season. It's all do-able and bear in mind the Swiss model worked in a situation where vaccination was only just taking off. The most practical issue on piste would seem to be be reduced capacity on gondolas leading to long queues. That leaves the risk of a positive test as the main travel risk (either a positive before you go, or before you return). I think this is why the travel industry and airlines in particular are lobbying for vaccination alone to be the health passport for travel: the cost of testing and the risk of a positive will put off too many people.

I can see that by next season, there will be for example a UK:CH 'green status' corridor that only requires vaccination for the over-20s for both travel insurance cover and entry. And then the sort of measures in places that we've seen in Switzerland this season. With perhaps some countries designated as on the Watchlist for moving from Green to Amber with tests held in reserve if that happens. In which case you go there at risk of the status being changed and have to test negative before returning.

This sits somewhat in the middle between the most optimistic view (that by then any vaccination or test conditions will have been dropped) and the most pessimistic (that we'll be back at square#1 thanks to a resistant variant that's run rife over late summer/autumn).

[The apocalyptic view might be that this is just the end of the beginning - a constant race against new diseases for which we have no immediate cure (such as antibiotic-resistant strains of common bacteria): where we go back to the 1950s in terms of foreign travel being the preserve of a small minority. Sounds like the plot of a new scifi series ...]

After all it is free

LaForet...I would pretty much agree. Once EU/Switzerland have got up to similar levels of vaccination as UK, I would hope this would be sufficient to allow travel without a test between these countries, at least before we return to the UK-which as I have said, for me, is the major stumbling block. And regarding children, who may still be unvaccinated, they should be allowed to travel without testing if with their vaccinated parents. This seems to be what the government are looking at for their 'mass event' internal covid certificate scheme. The 'reserve' list where testing might be introduced if numbers head in the wrong direction would be a sensible compromise between flexibility whislt still allowing forward planning.

I read online this morning that France's antivax sentiment is on the wane, and they now have a similar level people willing to take it to the UK (70% against 75% here).

If they can roll the vaccine out quickly, it is leaving me quite hopeful for next season.

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

Local coach operator (Voel) has announced that they will not be taking any bookings for travel outside the uk before March 2022.
They specifically included the ski season.
They operate of the order of 38 coaches and generally half in europe.
They were concerned over the uncertainty of rapid rule changes leaving them in the lurch; so it was safer to bin everything.

I`ve said previously I was 60/40 for next season, starting to think that is on the optimistic side.

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

snow reports

@andy from embsay, that sounds promising. Hoping it might make my 10 days in Brittany in August more hopeful too!

You know it makes sense.

@andy from embsay, judging by last year they will also benefit massively from the drop in virus transmission with warmer weather. I think summer trips* are likely to be feasible as long as our government doesn't create huge barriers in terms of high cost tests regardless of infection risk. The worry is for the winter when cases can be predicted to rise again and it is a bit of an act of faith that those numbers will remain small enough that restrictions aren't needed again.

[*Though early July is on the optimistic side, possible but August probably a better bet].

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

@j b, I keep seeing reference to another signficant uptick in the winter - I realise there’ll still be some people unvaccinated, but given that uptake seems to be well over 90%, and effectiveness against severe disease is also very, very high - why is this still considered to be likely? Whitty was talking about 25k flu deaths three years ago and (in his words) “nobody noticed”.

A snowHead

Politicians are nervous of the blame and bad publicity that will be forever associated with any covid death. Or any burden on the health service from covid serious illness.
Other respiratory diseases also show significant upticks in the winter (and kill thousands of people) but are less politically sensitive. Perhaps because they've always been there.

A snowHead

@andy from embsay, This is the crux of it for all aspects of our immediate future;

Do we accept that (barring significantly more dangerous mutations) we have have to start treating Covid like we do with the Flu.

or

Do we start treating the Flu like we have with Covid?

If we choose the latter then we're going to spend every winter in lockdown and we'll never ski abroad again.

I know that's heading off topic and I don't want to start that particular debate in this thread as I'm sure its covered elsewhere but I agree that a vaccine passport scheme for foreign travel that precludes routine testing is necessary and the best hope for many, me in particular, to go to the Alps next winter.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

@andy from embsay, there are plenty of cases of flu every winter, enough to put the NHS under severe pressure, despite many people being vaccinated. Why would Covid, with higher transmission hospitalisation and mortality rates, be any different?

You need to Login to know who's really who.

@peerless ploughman, Yes, and it may take until the polls show that the economic and social effects of lockdown and restrictions will cost them more votes than the deaths. That's when it will change for good.

I think we presume far too much that Politicians think logically and in the public interest, like most of us do.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

@ecureuil, isn’t vaccine effectiveness different with flu?

You'll need to Register first of course.

@robboj, As cold as it sounds, I just can't see people excepting extreme curbing of the freedoms of 66 million people for what is likely to be less than 0.05% of the population* dying of covid.

*total guesswork based on circa 30k people dying from covid, which would be similar to flu.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

The Transport Secretary is quoted on the BBC here as saying "... countries would be categorised based on level of infections and vaccinations, variants of concern and the quality of their genetic sequencing. "

If serious about the last of these, it might mean relatively few countries make it onto the 'green' list

After all it is free

@andy from embsay, Yes, IIRC flu vaccines only have an efficacy of around 50%

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

A significant issue is the state of the NHS. We have significantly fewer beds across a hospital than other western nations. And I wonder if ICU staff have been cycled through the wards other than ICU to get some respite and leave etc. Just like the WW1 troops in front line trenches were cycled back and forth.
UK politicians are desperately scared of new variants being brought back by travel and overloading NHS.
Not helped by reports of the current traveller Q system "loosing" 150k travellers from Q since mid Feb, Day 2/8 testing shambles and PHE ceasing at end March to check on those in Q.
Until the current systems are demonstrably effective, the outlook is pretty gloomy.

Help!!

Is Season 2021/22 going to happen for the British or for Anyone Else

snowHeads Forum Index >>> The Piste