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teach a snowboarder about ski bindings

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
hello, ive snowboarded for over a decade and was a seasonair for 3 seasons, ive taken to sking for a change of pace, i still do both, anyway


i would love some rail adjustable ski bindings, by adjustable i mean, so i can move bindings forward and backward a bit rather then for boot size, i know thats not really what there made for but they can do it as i understand

im gonna get some fat-ish all mountain pow skis, 100-110ish mm underfoot ... faction candide 2.0 or 3.0 maybe, and i would love to be able to move the bidings, even if its only by 50mm, my boots are 295mm i think... as in small which should help.

just looking for opinions, by current skis have salomon gardian touring bindings, so effectively are risen higher then normal bindindgs and dont have much feel but they seem fine

was looking at the Marker Griffon 13 TCX D... how much movement do you think i could get out of them / anything random ive not considered

cheers

joe
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
A generalization yes, but look at "demo" bindings that you can move both front and rear mounts fore and aft to accommodate different boots for trade demonstration purposes or hire/rental market.

Ordinarily they will offer something in the region of what you are looking for. You'd need to mount them centred in the range you wish to cover at maximum difference at either end as I view it.

In other words, you could mount so the forward most position of range matched the ski manufacturer recommended mount, giving all of your available movement to enable only rear movement away from this, for example.

Or centrepoint on recommendation to give both direction in adjustment. Depends on which direction interests you.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Not saying that your choice is wrong, but why do you want rail bindings? They are often factory fitted to piste-oriented skis, but you are looking at something wider than that.
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Rental skis are always (?) fitted with rail adjustable bindings, to accommodate for the range of many different people renting them over the season(s). Would something like that work?
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Demo skis have bindings that'll do what you want easily and there's often ex-demo available.

@spyderjon, at ThePisteOffice might have something suitable.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
I probabaly should have said why shouldn’t I lol

Simply, I can’t decide where I would want my bindings mounted, coming from a snowboard background it seems kinda antiquated that there still drilled in and immovable considering how much ski tech has moved on in all other regards


Maybe snowboarding means I’m used to being spoiled for choice, but I’m one of the people who actually moves my bindings depending on my mood/conditions

Realistically I’m not going to get to demo skis with bindings in several places, and not in pow, so this seems the best solution ... even if I end up picking a sweet spot and sticking with it

Thanks for the advise
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@fearlessjoe, as mentioned above https://www.thepisteoffice.com/ really knowledgable about possibility, supply, fit etc if you want a very informed view.

Worth considering coming from your board background, the Whitedot Ragnarok Asym ski, quite different in approach to many other available options.

Worth a read of reviews to see what they are about, also supplied by the piste office and with particularly good service too.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Atomic used to have something like this. Had 3 positions. more forward for a slightly quicker turn initiation, back for stability.

For Candides however, I'm not sure if you'd want to do it. Putting a rail/rental binding adds weight and stack height. Do you think you'd really benefit from that?
I've spent quite a bit of time discussing and pondering mounting points with the ski manufacturers, so could see the benefit of trying out a few mounting points, but still not sure if I'd ever want to move it again once I'd found the right spot
I have been forced to by remounting with different bindings and old mounting holes being in inconvenient places, but to be honest moving the boot centre 5 to 10 mm didn't make enough difference that you can't just get used to it.


Last edited by After all it is free Go on u know u want to! on Tue 29-12-20 15:52; edited 1 time in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
oh and for bindings for those, if it was me, I'd go with look pivots (which have even less adjustments than markers, but both have a fixed toe so only affects things if you get different sized boots)
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
@fearlessjoe, I understand completely why you'd want to do this and it's a Demo binding that you require. The Marker, Salomon/Atomic Tyrolia/Head and Look models all pretty similar in price and add little in weight/stand height but there's one important consideration and that is what boot sole types they accept. You must avoid any binding that only accepts alpine soles as you'll have no future proofing whatsoever and their resale value will be poor.

Your choice of the Griffon TCX Demo is an excellent one however it will only accept boots with either alpine or GripWalk soles so if you're good with that then great. An additional benefit of this binding is that the TCX Demo bases are available for purchase separately to allowing mounting other skis enabling you to share the upper toes'n'heels etc across a number of skis (although you might need spare brakes).

If you want the bindings to accept any boot sole type (ie alpine, WTR, GripWalk & full AT) then the only options are the Salomon/Atomic Warden MNC 11 Demo, the Salomon/Atomic Warden MNC 13 Demo or the Tyrolia/Head Attack2 13 AT Demo. These are the bindings that the ski manufacturers and us retailers use on our demo fleets as they'll work in any boot (& as such have better resale value).

And with your short boot sole length it's a must to have your bindings of choice mounted by someone that knows what they're doing as both of bases will need to be offset on the ski to achieve the level of adjustability you require.
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
stuarth wrote:
oh and for bindings for those, if it was me, I'd go with look pivots (which have even less adjustments than markers, but both have a fixed toe so only affects things if you get different sized boots)


sorry, I missed the "D" in your binding choice Madeye-Smiley - they do have an adjustable toe of course begins demo bindings. Also seem to have a different heel piece, which might not be a bad thing as I'm not a super big fan of the Griffin heels I have.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
That’s some good advice ... much appreciated, I realise most people wouldn’t consider doing this, if I’m honest most snowboarders don’t change their’s either lol, but I do, I’m an engineer I like to fiddle lol

I’ll be getting a shop to fit them

What kind of difference do you think I can get.. ish

I haven’t picked a ski but using candide 3.0 as an example here,

true center...
-2.5? Forward (candide) line.....
-6.9 all mountain I think,

not sure I would get that much movement,

On my board at least the difference between full center for piste fun and full back for pow is about that and makes a world of difference
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@fearlessjoe, what you're proposing is perfect for a true centre mount for park and then moving the mount to the all mountain line. I do this set-up often. And there's easily enough adjustment to do that providing the tech understands your requirements exactly - and that is my only concern.

If you're an engineer I'd mock up the toe and heel plate locations with the bindings yourself and then mark up the top sheets with your required locations so there's no confusion. Then if the shop cocks it up it'll be new skis time.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
not sure it's going to work quite like a snowboard (I say having never snowboarded!)
moving the mounting point forward makes the ski less stable, which can also make it more playful and better for park skiing - since the Candide 3.0 is I beleive sort of big mountain freestyle oriented, then it may already have a slightly more forward mount?
Moving it back makes it more stable which can be good for going faster - but if you wanted to do this then perhaps a dictator (for off piste crazy fast) or race ski would be better?
For pow you don't want your weight back, you still want to be centred on skis.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
by the way, the to get round this problem properly is to buy more skis! wink
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I think Marker bindings used to be adjustable without tools, in the manner suggested.
Forward for something, back for something else. You had to lift up a lever which was the top of the binding somehow, and then just slide the thing about.
No one ever bothered in practice.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I percieve rockered skis achieve the effect asked for (at least that's why I buy that type) with the lifted tips nominally not in use on piste. You are much closer to the front of the effective edge and it's response while being moved a long way toward the back in the overall ski geometry when running in powder as the full ski base is contacted.

I've not run much on a rockered board, and so not a significant comparison. But certainly it's a very pronounced effect with the right ski choice.
ski holidays
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
thats exactly how it works on a snowboard lol, thats what i do anyway, i mount them dead in the middle for farting about, them set them back for pow

Quote:

For pow you don't want your weight back, you still want to be centred on skis

well, if your bindings are on the AM line you dont, but if they are dead centre i would need to keep my weight back a bit to avoid diving

Quote:

If you're an engineer I'd mock up the toe and heel plate locations...

that is plan a

as an alternate plan ive found ski binding inserts made by a few companies... Quiver Killer or Binding Freedom Inserts... that essentially emulate what snowboards have... if i spent as much time doing diy as i do researching ski gear my house would be much nicer haha

im litrally not even gonna get to ski for a year... bloody covid lol, planning a 2 month trip the for late 2021 to make up for it
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fearlessjoe wrote:

Quote:

For pow you don't want your weight back, you still want to be centred on skis

well, if your bindings are on the AM line you dont, but if they are dead centre i would need to keep my weight back a bit to avoid diving



Still not quite sure you'd want to be getting your weight back unless you are really in it for the thigh burner, slightly out of control looking, ride.
I have WD Directors fairly center mounted, WD Ragnaroks/Rangers/Redeemers which are mounted further back - ski them all pretty much the same in pow with regard to keeping weight centered except perhaps in super heavy/crusty pow (and even then big tip rocker such as on the redeemers, or just going faster on Ragnaroks makes this unnecessary Madeye-Smiley )

Since it is not exactly a 1 second job to move demo bindings (got to move them to the right place, check heel pressure, etc), I am still skeptical of how often you will do this. I had Atomic SX10s that did this with just one button push, but still, after a few weeks of fiddling around, got bored of it and never moved them again.
Maybe actually just getting a shop to demo you the skis might be the way forward? then you can play around with the boot-centre and then buy the skis and mount them where they work best for you - then not constrained as to which bindings you use (I have a pretty good selection of all of them, and imho the look pivot is the best freeride binding) or messing around with inserts
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
i prefer riding leaning into the front of my boots pretty hard, for skis im gonna be using in pow i would get them mounted back so i can do that.... i dont want to have to take 2 pairs of skis with me.... or have to buy 2 pairs of skis, i already have 7 snowboards hanging in my staircase lol

and..... no offence intended, what you've done there tell me i should ... just get a demo and get normal bindings lol... wouldn't be much point in me asking if i was willing to go the traditional route Laughing


i want to have my cake and eat it lol Laughing
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@fearlessjoe,

Well... as I tell my kids, any sentence preceded by "no offence intended" is intended to be an offence... wink
Anyhow, back to the topic... Madeye-Smiley
Do you wonder if there is a reason why both Marker (as noted by Philwig) and Atomic had bindings that did what you are requesting and now don't?
Perhaps rather than looking for the complex solution, the obvious one is just to not need to ski having to be hard back or forward?

That said I do think the ability to play around with the mounting point before committing would be a good thing, hence the suggestion to borrow some skis that you think you want that already have demo bindings on (not to actually buy that particular pair)


Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Tue 29-12-20 20:57; edited 1 time in total
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@fearlessjoe, : the posts from @ski3, and @spyderjon, have given you all you have asked for and a lot more.

Play with what they say, trial and then reflect and decide what suits you best

—— or — —

get out there and enjoy yourself (which is where I’ll be)
ski holidays
 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
—— or — —

Fit Quiverkillers at centre, +1, +2, -2 & -1 and have the freedom to choose from multiple mount points depending on conditions or your whim.
Footnote: you’ll find a happy spot and then never move them.

[ignores all hole clashes]
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Quote:

Well... as I tell my kids, any sentence preceded by "no offence intended" is intended to be an offence...


well ok, offence intended then hahaha

i assume those ones weren't very well executed or just... market forces don't normally align with what i want... either that or im difficult

sadly i cant realistically do any ski tests so this is the only way i play around


i think inserts might be more hassle then they're worth, but lots of usefull info on here, thanks all

Quote:

Footnote: you’ll find a happy spot and then never move them


footnote: i guarantee i wont lol, i moved my snowboard bindings 3 times on my last trip.... of a week
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
The OP has a fine idea and Griffon demos are almost perfect for experimenting ( the main flaw being the Marker royal heel being a PITA to step into in powder).

It's how ski cos work out their recommended mounts hence the genesis of the SAGA mount on the Whitedot Altums vs the Fun mount.
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Dave of the Marmottes wrote:
The OP has a fine idea and Griffon demos are almost perfect for experimenting ( the main flaw being the Marker royal heel being a PITA to step into in powder).

It's how ski cos work out their recommended mounts hence the genesis of the SAGA mount on the Whitedot Altums vs the Fun mount.


The good thing is the demo binding has a TCX heel which is different (though no idea if any better)
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Yep, the TCX heel (with horizontal spring conventionally mounted in the housing as opposed to being within the cocking lever) is a doddle to step in to. However, the 20/21 Griffon/Jester has a redesigned pivot which makes stepping on par with heels.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
stage one..... cos im sure your all riveted by this..... i was going to put a picture of the CT 3.0's i just bought but this site doesn't seem to have photo uploads so maybe not..... ive also found someone selling new old stock marker schitzos to add to the list of either them or tcx griffon/squires
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Avoid the Schizo's, the cable gizmo connecting the toe'n'heel sucks. They might be cheap but they'll also have no resale value.
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