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Bookings in free fall for French resorts

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@coxy84, Not sure if she's right or left Very Happy
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@Meltus, Fingers crossed things get better as the season approaches and you get flooded with last-ish minute bookings snowHead
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Do french typically holiday in france?
Not really thought about it - but if not, then maybe that is why bookings are looking ok at 25%, as people are restricted travelling outside the country.
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@Mr.Egg, according to this, the Germans ski the most

https://www.statista.com/statistics/801008/europe-number-of-people-skiing-by-country/
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Quote:

Not sure if she's right or left

Such old fashioned labels...... QAnon?
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Quote:

Do french typically holiday in france?

Yes
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VolklAttivaS5 wrote:
according to this, the Germans ski the most

I don't think that Germans ski in France though.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@pam w, Looks like a bit of fun Cool Cool
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rjs wrote:
VolklAttivaS5 wrote:
according to this, the Germans ski the most

I don't think that Germans ski in France though.


No they don’t Laughing

But the rest of the link provides the stats for the French
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Quote:

@Mr.Egg, according to this, the Germans ski the most

https://www.statista.com/statistics/801008/europe-number-of-people-skiing-by-country/

Very interesting. I didn't know that 17% of Germans are skiers. Another table shows that Germany has more ski resorts than any other country.
10% of the UK population are skiers almost the same as Belgium. The Netherlands never even made the list so has less than 1400 skiers. So if you meet a Dutch (or someone from elsewhere in that country) you are indeed privalaged.

Oh! and the Czech republic has more ski resorts than Switzerland. Belgium has 7 whereas its neighbour the Netherlands has none - not even Landgraaf counts. Kryhyzstan has upped sticks and moved to Europe with its 19 resorts
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Quote:
do french holiday in France?



70% of French tourism income comes from domestic tourism. Granted that's overall tourism, not specifically ski tourism. We are not as important to them as some would make you think!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Quote:

I don't think that Germans ski in France though.

You get quite a lot of German speakers and D marked cars in Les Arcs. Not quite as many as Brits but a fair few.
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johnE wrote:
Quote:

@Mr.Egg, according to this, the Germans ski the most

https://www.statista.com/statistics/801008/europe-number-of-people-skiing-by-country/

Very interesting. I didn't know that 17% of Germans are skiers. Another table shows that Germany has more ski resorts than any other country.
10% of the UK population are skiers almost the same as Belgium. The Netherlands never even made the list so has less than 1400 skiers. So if you meet a Dutch (or someone from elsewhere in that country) you are indeed privalaged.

Oh! and the Czech republic has more ski resorts than Switzerland. Belgium has 7 whereas its neighbour the Netherlands has none - not even Landgraaf counts. Kryhyzstan has upped sticks and moved to Europe with its 19 resorts


Yes surprising about the Dutch isn’t it?
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Twice as many UK skiers than Swiss skiers but then our population is larger too
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@boarder2020, I read somewhere that British tourists make up about 11% of the visitors to Les Arcs. A bigger percentage than I thought. Anyway they are very welcome in the resort because as one shop keeper explained to me: They book in advance and come even if the weather is poor. They don't drive with a car loaded with supplies so they go out to the shops and buy things. They don't eat every night in their apartments, but visit restaurants and bars.
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Yes I read somewhere that 80% of UK skiers fly to the Alps rather than drive there so that is probably why they don’t take with them loads of food and drink like people driving from France a few hours away might do.
I think the British are less likely to picnic too from my observations over the last 15 years in places where there are picnic rooms
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Also they don’t clear off home when the weather is poor as they are there until the return flight goes!
They must make a fair amount out of British visitors especially in some resorts extremely popular with the British like, say, Meribel
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Quote:

Twice as many UK skiers than Swiss skiers but then our population is larger too

35% of Swiss compared to 10% of UK.

This site continues to amuse me. 90% of UK skiers practice on piste skiing, 59% are off piste skiers (I wonder if the insurance companies know this). 33% (yes one third) are snowboarders. I would love to know where this data is coming from. Not the Netherlands obviously.
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johnE wrote:
Quote:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/801008/europe-number-of-people-skiing-by-country/

Very interesting. I didn't know that 17% of Germans are skiers. Another table shows that Germany has more ski resorts than any other country.
10% of the UK population are skiers almost the same as Belgium. The Netherlands never even made the list so has less than 1400 skiers. So if you meet a Dutch (or someone from elsewhere in that country) you are indeed privalaged.

I'm a bit confused as to how to interpret that graph, but I'm pretty sure there are more than 1400 Dutch skiers. You could throw a few snowballs and hit 1400 Dutch skiers just in this area on a peak week, and I'm sure more than that have passed me on their way up to Val Thorens for Dutch week. They are not in that short supply.
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I see now how it was done
Quote:

Method of interview
Email survey

That proably explains why in 2016 25% of British and Northern Irish skiers were 60 or over.
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The French have nothing like the spending power of the Brits, Germans etc.
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@davidof, what do the French tend to do then generally? Take their food and drink with them and therefore no restaurant spending? And no supermarket spends as they have brought everything with them from home?
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
I’d say if you see a big tableful of people at lunchtime having a long lunch anywhere they are almost certainly British and the bill ends up being hundreds of Euros
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VolklAttivaS5 wrote:
@davidof, what do the French tend to do then generally? Take their food and drink with them and therefore no restaurant spending? And no supermarket spends as they have brought everything with them from home?


Very generally:-
They will stay in the smallest flats, maybe grannies' ski apartment or something bought by a friend back in the day.
Probably buy food at a supermarket at the bottom of the valley or from a resort supermarket (they are not that expensive) and eat in.
People who work for decent companies may ski with something subsidized by the firm - it will be catered like a club hotel affair.
Or holiday in Italy or Bulgaria.
Not that many French people can afford to ski though unless they live in the mountains.
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@davidof, interesting, thanks
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@VolklAttivaS5,

Quote:

Winter sports, a privileged practice
Data February 10, 2020

Two-thirds of French people never go on winter vacation (from early December to late March) according to Crédoc [1]. Less than one in five French people (17%) leave at least once every two years, and one in ten every year. Going to ski is even rarer: only 8% of French people do so at least once every two years.

When it comes to skiing, prices are prohibitive for most households, even if some employees of large companies have the support of a works council and others use their family networks or friends.

Winter sports and skiing in particular occupy a large media area because tourism is an economic issue, but also because skiing is one of the practices in the world of journalists. It only takes a very small fraction of the population to travel to provide television and radio reports, completely out of step with the practices of the vast majority of the population. The frequentation of the resorts is maintained for a simple reason: the categories which benefit from the snow are not affected by the rise in unemployment and the fall in living standards. A growing proportion of customers come from elsewhere from abroad.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@davidof, very interesting
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
pam w wrote:
Quote:

the clientel will be almost all French.... and they don't like this idea

Les pauvres! Faute de grives, on mange des merles.....


Mais on veut des ortolans! Toofy Grin
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@coxy84,
I voted Tory!!!
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@susieski, congratulations, you’ve got the government you voted for. But still you do nothing but moan. Got anything remotely useful to say?
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I felt @susieski, was in context given the thread topic as to how we'd approach bookings to France for ski season.

I'm approaching in a similar way, late booking if there are circumstances allowing travel to proceed. At this point I can see why forward commitment is missing from expected normal numbers as observed in France.
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eblunt wrote:
@abc, Isn't a booking in advance by definition ?

Do you consider it still “advance” if the booking is for tomorrow?

We are however, talking about an October booking...
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I've spoken to several bar owners and ski instructors here who are praying that Brits are able to travel. However the main Brit owned bar here had their best summer ever.
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@pam w, ref your point on Brits spending money - the shop-owners in our village (Arc1950) all prefer to see the Brits visiting. OK, there may be an element of 'rip off the tourists' but they all say that the French visitors will bring their provisions for the entire week, will eat in rather than out, bring their own gear (so no hire), and do their shopping for gear down the hill, and probably at home. They desperately want us to visit. I cite the co-ordinated response to the direct Eurostar cancellations: that was not borne out of any desire to be nice to Britain - they want our cash.


Of course, the head of the village Retail Association also said - If a French shop keeper isn't complaining, it is because he's dead...
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Arctic Roll wrote:
If a French shop keeper isn't complaining, it is because he's dead...


Very Happy Very Happy

Whenever we are out in Tignes with our friends who live in the area, any discussion with bar / business owners about how busy it is usually include the word "tranquil" even if they are bursting at the seams.
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johnE wrote:

Very interesting. I didn't know that 17% of Germans are skiers. Another table shows that Germany has more ski resorts than any other country.



Would never have guessed this - but this really comes across as quantity over quality. I had a quick look and they are mostly all small hills with a few number of lifts, I wonder how snow sure they are.

Always thought Japan was the world leader as they have 500+ ski hill/resorts
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I'm sure some resorts like Pralognan won't notice much difference as it appears to have a 95% French client base when I have skied there. 5 miles away in Tignes it's 49% French, 30% British, the majority of the rest are Belgians and Dutch. A further 3 miles away in Val D it's 50% or so Brits.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
In leafy old Serre Che we no longer have the big tour-ops, only one big Club Med and they keep to themselves, and most people that do visit travel independently and or stay with small independent operators that might have a couple of chalets/apartments, and of course there is the big UCPCA which does attract a fair chunk of non-French chunk clientele but again keep to themselves

On the whole Serre Che is very French with many wealthy second homeowners up from Marseilles, Toulon (3.5hrs) who only visit at the peak holiday periods and they do spend!

Then there are the typical French families renting apartments in the likes of Pierre Vacances, as @davidof, says....
They will stay in the smallest flats, maybe grannies' ski apartment or something bought by a friend back in the day.
Probably buy food at a supermarket at the bottom of the valley or from a resort supermarket (they are not that expensive) and eat in.
People who work for decent companies may ski with something subsidized by the firm - it will be catered like a club hotel affair.


And more recently in the non-peak times they have been bussing in coachloads of young Eastern Europeans, again who buy all their booze in the supermarkets and do not go to bars and restos.

I do suspect that the British Army will not be in the valley this year (January), and that will be a big loss as Serre Che provides and manages all the racing infrastructure which has to be worth a few pennies!

And I've just Googled and come across this on the https://www.awsa.org.uk/
It is with much regret that due to the ongoing Covid-19 situation the Army Winter Sports Season for 20/21 is CANCELLED.

Like I said a huge blow for some people I know, not least one Hotelier who always had all the officers and families staying.

Mind you all mildy ironic as I've been trying to buy our season ski passes this morning and the site won't play ball rolling eyes
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@Weathercam, as DOM said, some hotels will take what govt aid they can get and shutter for the season. No point in employing expensive staff to clean empty rooms or sit in the kitchen/reception.
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The "hotel model" is shot, for the time being. I am a long way from paranoid about Covid but there's no way I'd eat at a buffet right now.
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