 Poster: A snowHead
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The coming season bodes gloom amid health uncertainty.
G2A the agency which keeps the scoreboard of accommodation and bed occupancy in 80 stations reports on October 1 that overnight stays are 26.5% down compared to last year on the same date . The decline is more marked in high altitude stations dependent on foreign customers, hampered by travel restrictions. With a drop of over 50%, hotels and holiday villages are the most exposed accommodation. The economic players and tourist agencies in the regions are preparing to launch their communication campaign highlighting the health and well-being assets of the mountains.
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With new internal travel restrictions in discussion for France for the coming weeks things don't look great for the ski business.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@davidof, down only 26.5%? I thought it would be more than that
With that said 26.5% of millions is a lot of money not to have
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I guess that with international travel off the list for many people, Austrian resorts will be full of Austrian families, French resorts full of French families, etc. Just as British holiday homes and resorts have been full of Brits since lockdown eased. In many resorts in Austria and France (etc) business for many accommodation providers, restaurants, life companies etc, will probably be pretty good. It would make little apparent difference in, say, the Espace Diamant if all the foreign visitors disappeared.
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@pam w, While that may be true to some extent, I don't think that local tourists can make up the difference caused by losing the internationals. In France, it seems widely regarded that Brits spend more than the French (maybe because they feel more “on holiday”), so you would need more French tourists to boost the lost income. In Austria, the population just isn't big enough to make up for circa 70% lost German visitors, and those who ski in Austria have probably always skied in Austria (because why go elsewhere, same in France), so while their loss is not felt, their are no gains to be made either.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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The decline is more marked in high altitude stations dependent on foreign customers
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I think it's probably fair to say that Chamonix sits in that category, from what I'm hearing.
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| VolklAttivaS5 wrote: |
| ... down only 26.5%? I thought it would be more than that ... |
+1.
73.5% of the usual level seems remarkable, given that most people (on here at least) are advocating waiting and booking late. Whether it is good or bad also depends on what proportion of total bookings are normally made by end September. 73.5% of say half the total would be very good in the circumstances; 73.5% of just a tenth may not be that significant.
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In France, it seems widely regarded that Brits spend more than the French (maybe because they feel more “on holiday”)
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That's interesting. I've not heard that, though I have heard that the Dutch are regarded as bringing so much with them that they don't spend much in resort. There will be some French, Italian, Austrian (etc) people who might go abroad for winter holidays, but won't under current conditions - so there could be more locals about, simply because the options are so much more limited. Again, French areas where accommodation is mostly self-catering and where big-spend "apres ski" has never been a feature, would suffer less than others. I would expect bookings for UK destinations to be pretty buoyant for Christmas - except, perhaps, for those big holiday homes suitable for extended families, which won't do well under a "rule of 6", even in the south of England.
I imagine lots of people who might have booked accommodation by now will be in "wait and see" mode.
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We had a good summer season, I was quite surprised that all our French bookings came as planned, we picked up a replacement for our Germans, and then got another couple of bookings into September when we should have been there ourselves from Italians.
Nothing in the calendar for the winter yet though.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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It would make little apparent difference in, say, the Espace Diamant if all the foreign visitors disappeared.
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Probably not in Arc 1600 either but the number of French bookings for my apartment is less than a quarter of usual at this time of year. The loss of foreign customers does not account for the all the drop off by any means. Unless, of course you call Parisians foreign customers.
I suspect that a lot of it is that people are waiting to see what will happen. Why book somewhere now when you can book in January?
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We were absolutely rammed up till the end of September here in Serre Chevalier, possibly the busiest summer since we've been here, people I've spoken to reckon it's mostly French city dwellers wanting to escape to the clean mountain air with plenty of social distancing........
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@davidof, is the statistic you are quoting the actual occupancy on the night of October 1st vs. last year or is it projected bookings for the season taken so far at ctober 1st vs. last year?
If the former, then I would be less surprised as I imagine that's low season for a number of establishments and so the comparison base may be quite low
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| DCG wrote: |
@davidof, is the statistic you are quoting the actual occupancy on the night of October 1st vs. last year or is it projected bookings for the season taken so far at ctober 1st vs. last year?
If the former, then I would be less surprised as I imagine that's low season for a number of establishments and so the comparison base may be quite low |
That's a very good question.
I checked and it is bookings for the 20/21 winter season taken as an average. So not so bad for the smaller resorts where the French tend to visit but not good for the big mega resorts with 50% down. Note the data from g2a probably doesn't give much of an idea about UK TO bookings as their data covers French organisations. They claim to cover about 80% of the market.
https://www.g2a-consulting.com/montagne/
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A few of you have apartments and chalets, from a customer point of view ;
We have today cancelled a 3 week booking for sole very small chalet France. We are old seasoned skiers, and were returning to favourite village. Absolutely sick & gut wrenching to cancel. We’ve cancelled today to give chalet owner adequate and fair notice BUT have asked to re book for 2022.
Quarantine here on return is the least of our worries. The restrictions and covid policy’s brought in by French and UK governments change on a daily basis , not to mention tit for tat Brexit situation.
We’ve cancelled because it’s a head fcuk
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You know it makes sense.
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There's an interesting further dynamic - how many hotels and appts where they are not driven by an absolute need to fund the mortgage will look at poor or non existent bookings and shutter for the season? Hence low bookings might lead to low availability.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| There's an interesting further dynamic - how many hotels and appts where they are not driven by an absolute need to fund the mortgage will look at poor or non existent bookings and shutter for the season? Hence low bookings might lead to low availability. |
In Paris at the moment huge numbers of hotels are shuttered, so the same could happen in the alps. Plus around 30% of hotels and restaurants will go bankrupt.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Tragic situation
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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The title should read “ADVANCED booking in free fall”, which makes perfect sense.
Why would anyone make advanced booking in time of such rapidly changing uncertainty is beyond me.
Further more, how much of those “booking” on the book will materialize into occupancy is also highly questionable. What percentage of those bookings are from March, when people booked provisionally using their cancellation “credits”, which they will cancel again when it gets close to the cancellation deadline?
With many city entertainment shuttered, many more domestic families WILL no doubt head to the mountains to do the only activity that’s still open and reasonably safe. It’s just they’re not necessarily booking 3 months in advance!
I’m sorry those looking for “normal” as in “just like last year” will be repeatedly disappointed.
In time of rapid change and uncertainty, business that are nimble will thrive. Individuals and families that are flexible will get to enjoy it.
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Sun 11-10-20 14:07; edited 1 time in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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MP’s , snouts in the trough, clueless, wrecking it for all of us.
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In Chamonix this summer, the situation was strange. The streets were as busy as ever, prbably the busiest ever. Self catering is normaly 40% occupancy at the busiest time (winter half term and ultra-trail weekend), but was 95%-100%! Cheaper hotels did OK, but those further up the food chain were struggling to full on disaster. The cheaper shops were very busy but most everyone else realy struggled - We are set up for International tourism, not French, but the French came (and will come) in their droves.
The feeling from those in the local resorts (just out of the Valley) is the numbers (french internal restrections not withstanding) will get to almost normal levels, but the clientel will be almost all French.... and they don't like thi idea (Savoyards don't particularily like the price consious and fussy/complaining French)
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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the clientel will be almost all French.... and they don't like this idea
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Les pauvres! Faute de grives, on mange des merles.....
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Savoyards don't particularily like the price consious and fussy/complaining French
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Sure, it’s far more lucrative to fleece the foreigners. 
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| susieski wrote: |
| MP’s , snouts in the trough, clueless, wrecking it for all of us. |
You choose to cancel.
Not sure how that is MPs fault
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They are protecting their own jobs , not representing the people who voted for them.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Giving themselves a pay rise at this !!!??? Sickening
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| susieski wrote: |
| MP’s , snouts in the trough, clueless, wrecking it for all of us. |
I don't think that all Members of Parliament are either self-serving or incompetent. Just those in the Cabinet. And their advisors. And I think you forgot to mention the 42,000 dead people. Were they 'wrecking' our winter holiday as well?
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Sun 11-10-20 15:00; edited 1 time in total
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@MorningGory,
Actually I ski off piste, an eternal optimist, nothing phases me apart from narrow minded jobs worth’s
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| susieski wrote: |
@MorningGory,
Actually I ski off piste, an eternal optimist, nothing phases me apart from narrow minded jobs worth’s |
If you’re an optimist, you would be able to thread the needles of restrictions and be able to ski.
But you don’t sound like an optimist reading your complaints.
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You know it makes sense.
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@DCG, October is not so much low season but no season for all but a handful of Alpine ski resorts. For France I think Tignes may be the only one planning to be open for skiing in October, from the 17th.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| susieski wrote: |
| Giving themselves a pay rise at this !!!??? Sickening |
They have not given themselves a pay rise.
It is set by an independent watchdog.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Not sure how they are protecting their own jobs
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I wondered that, too. As people are always cross about pay rises for MPs, they could hardly be said to be protecting their jobs by making themselves unpopular. And, moreover, Parliament has rather little chance to express a view about coronavirus restrictions.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Being an optimist takes into consideration the person you are renting from. I could leave it until the last minute and let an owner down. Thankfully I have morals
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Also why would I gamble £4000 on a much needed break when i could get tested as Covid positive ( brought in at last minute French side) when I may be asymptotic and showing no signs of virus. There is a difference between being optimistic and being sensible
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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The working population have kept countries running for millennia whether trading or bartering. Spanner in the works ; governments.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@abc, Isn't a booking in advance by definition ?
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I know this is the wrong thread but it affects us all. Our freedoms are being eradicated by people in power who most ly have never done a days labour in their lives to earn a living but very happy to spend other people’s hard earned income tax
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@susieski, F*ck off to your preferred tin foil hat website please. This ain't the place for your conspiracy/far right/far left theories.
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+1
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Oh dear Susieski, look what you’ve done, you gone and upset the tories! 
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bookings at my company (Brit TO) are looking awful but as someone above has said, we are hoping for a lot of last-minute bookings. My girlfriend's company (local self-catering agency) are doing very well and bookings are up compared to this time last year. Ugh, Parisians....
this is in Cham btw
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