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Is This Season Going To Happen for The British ???

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
clarky999 wrote:
@robboj, Obergurgl still haven't opened their lifts this season, and this point I highly doubt they will!


As I understand it OberG is pretty much a 'five families' set up in terms of hotels/huts, stakes in the lift company and ownership of the land. Never many day trippers there anyway so I'd reckon that its just not worth it when the hotels are empty. Very few permanent hotel staff or ones on that retained system that they work in Austria so probably cheaper for them to stay shut.

I imagine they took the decision as a group not to open at all thus far and now for the season
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Just heard on the BBC that to travel to the UK you now have to take 3 tests - one before you go for arrival, and then two more once in the UK and they're not differentiating between travel from EU and South Africa/America etc from my understanding though Matt Hancock is announcing the detail later.

I've just been nagging to my French niece who lives in London who was due to travel for essential work to Bordeaux next week and she says if that's the case it's just not worth it financially.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Weathercam wrote:
Just heard on the BBC that to travel to the UK you now have to take 3 tests - one before you go for arrival, and then two more once in the UK and they're not differentiating between travel from EU and South Africa/America etc from my understanding though Matt Hancock is announcing the detail later.

I've just been nagging to my French niece who lives in London who was due to travel for essential work to Bordeaux next week and she says if that's the case it's just not worth it financially.


It was released via the news sources last night. Pretty much puts a bullet through this season and I think seriously makes it difficult to travel abroad in the Summer (though of course this may change). Can't help by feel some tour companies are missing a trick here though. Surely if you are a T/O there is an opportunity to sell your trips with testing included and organise a test for your guests.
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@Weathercam, https://www.gov.uk/uk-border-control/ending-self-isolation-early-through-test-to-release

The possibility that travelling back to the UK will potentially involve up to 3 PCR tests at the traveller's expense puts the final nail in the coffin of any holiday travel until this is removed. Sadly I have to accept that the 20/21 season is over, and the possibility that the 21/22 season will be largely affected as well.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
I think Austria is sadly out for you guys this season now too... (unless you have managed to acquire an Irish or other EU passport)

New rules from tomorrow (10th Feb) as per the British Embassy: https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/austria/entry-requirements

Quote:
Entry to Austria
Passenger flights from the UK are not currently allowed to land in Austria. From 10 February 2021, entry to Austria from the United Kingdom will be prohibited by Austrian law.

The following people are excluded from the entry ban, if you can present a medical certificate confirming a negative PCR or rapid antigen test not older than 72 hours. You must also fill out the Pre-Travel Clearance form. If you are unable to produce a negative test upon entry, you must take a test in Austria within 24 hours. 10-day quarantine is still mandatory, but you can take a self-funded PCR or antigen test after 5 days (the day you arrive in Austria counts as day 0). If the result is negative, you will no longer need to stay in quarantine.

Residents of Austria
Austrian citizens, EU/EEA citizens, Swiss citizens and people who live with them in the same household
people with residence or habitual abode in EU/EEA countries or Andorra, Monaco, San Marino, the Vatican or Switzerland and people who live with them in the same household
holders of a visa D issued by Austria
people who are entitled to stay in Austria, on the basis of a residence permit or residence title
members of the staff of diplomatic missions or consular posts and people who live with them in the same household
employees of international organizations (e.g. the UN) and people who live with them in the same household
people who are employed by a domestic regional authority or a domestic public corporation and whose place of employment is abroad or whose service is carried out abroad, provided that the activity of this corporation abroad is in the interest of the Republic of Austria
people who enter Austria to begin or continue studying or doing research
people who enter to attend school

Business travellers are exempted from the entry ban and the quarantine regulations, but not from the obligation to present a medical certificate and Pre-Travel Clearance form. More information is available from the Austrian Embassy in London.
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@clarky999, Always was....it's all about summer.
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The last time I looked the PCR tests were £240 each.

£2800 for a family of four for testing is completely out of the question for us.

Then of course you have the issue of a test coming back positive and then not being able to travel back or having to isolate on return. More extra costs and time off work.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
My guess is that the EU isn't going to come to any favourable arrangement for UK visitors until the UK decides to no longer be the only country in the world refusing to give their representative Ambassador Status. Or perhaps it's part of a Cunning Plan to keep this as a bargaining chip for when things start to open up in the summer? Mind you, we're talking about Dominic Raab here. So perhaps not.

Oh, and for anyone interested, the 'Vaccination Passports' thread is still being updated (e.g. trials of the IATA Travel Pass App are now underway) but has now been moved to the 'Apres Zone' for some reason. Probably too political.


Last edited by After all it is free Go on u know u want to! on Tue 9-02-21 12:54; edited 3 times in total
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@Weathercam, @FrediKanoute, Strikes me as clearly in the 'we must do something and this is something' category. Perhaps a reaction to the fact the the hotels have told them to get stuffed over what's they're allegedly prepared to pay for quarantine day rates.

I agree about it finishing this season and maybe the summer too. As I've said before it just ceases to be a holiday for me, i.e. beneficial to mind and body. 'Come and pay lots of money to have x days of stress and worry where the slightest cough strikes fear and even if you're feeling fine and somebody tests you and says you're actually not you're stuffed'. Hmm, ok, I'll leave it thanks...

This season I'd long since written off. I will quite happily holiday here this summer. If they cancel next winter I honestly wonder what'll be there to go to in 22/23 or later. Resorts will maybe look a lot different to those we left in 19/20.
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robboj wrote:
@Weathercam, @FrediKanoute, Strikes me as clearly in the 'we must do something and this is something' category. Perhaps a reaction to the fact the the hotels have told them to get stuffed over what's they're allegedly prepared to pay for quarantine day rates.

I agree about it finishing this season and maybe the summer too. As I've said before it just ceases to be a holiday for me, i.e. beneficial to mind and body. 'Come and pay lots of money to have x days of stress and worry where the slightest cough strikes fear and even if you're feeling fine and somebody tests you and says you're actually not you're stuffed'. Hmm, ok, I'll leave it thanks...

This season I'd long since written off. I will quite happily holiday here this summer. If they cancel next winter I honestly wonder what'll be there to go to in 22/23 or later. Resorts will maybe look a lot different to those we left in 19/20.


I agree. I totally get the need to be cautious as the efficacy of the various vaccines is still yet not fully understood. I feel though that the "do something" is again a knee jerk though, to me its something that probably should have been done 12 months ago.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
FrediKanoute wrote:
I agree. I totally get the need to be cautious as the efficacy of the various vaccines is still yet not fully understood. I feel though that the "do something" is again a knee jerk though, to me its something that probably should have been done 12 months ago.


Yes, if the vaccines prevent all but the inconvenience of mild to moderate symptoms for a few days then so be it. I instinctively agree about most of the things that should've been done 12 months ago but then when I think more deeply I do wonder. Anyhow, risk of drifting quite OT into matters adequately covered in other threads.

I still want to book now for next winter but fear the (for me) crushing disappointment of a forced cancellation puts me off.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@FrediKanoute, much of the 'something must be done' blame must be laid at the feet of the media. The recent reporting efficacy of AZ vaccine on the SA variant is a case in point. Screaming low % numbers without any explanation of the context or the limitations of the trial. A small number of young people who were highly unlikely to get serious symptoms anyway. All it tells us is about its effectiveness at preventing mild symptoms in young people. It says nothing about its effectiveness is preventing serious symptoms in old people which is actually what we should be worried about. As long as vaccine keeps people out of hospital then job done. Reduces the consequences of CV to those of a bad cold or flu, which are risks we take all the time without shutting down society and half of the economy.
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Quote:

I still want to book now for next winter but fear the (for me) crushing disappointment of a forced cancellation puts me off.

@robboj, Agreed. Since last March have seen booked up holidays fall like dominoes. Either postponing them or taking the refund. We have put a deposit down for next Christmas though. The fear of missing out due to high demand and perhaps more limited availability was stronger than the fear of getting another holiday cancelled.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
TUI are upbeat about Brits taking summer holidays

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55993216
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@dode, Yeah, I agree, we're probably close to booking but there's just a couple of issues that we're trying to resolve over the whom, where and when that are no different to what would be if we'd never heard of Covid. Almost reassuringly mundane tbh.

We were thinking of a large family group for New Year but after about two weeks of various people dithering over whether they're coming I just can't be bothered with the hassle of being the organiser. So I reckon we'll push back into mid-late January and maybe go for two weeks which 'should' buy us more time to book.

Will see. Much more inclined to book the package for the guarantees so thinking of emailing Crystal to see if they'll let us fly into Innsbruck from Edinburgh and then back out of Salzburg to Glasgow a fortnight later and do a week in two different resorts. They did let us do similar about 10 years ago albeit it was the same airport.

On the other hand just do an apartment for the two weeks with the Jet2 flights from EDI to SZG and save the hassle.

In that case I then start to wonder about snow conditions, happy days if that's our only concern.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
The chances of NEXT season happening for the British look distinctly iffy, judging by Hancock's announcements in parliament today. Draconian restrictions and punishments for returnees from 'red list' (variant - affected) countries, with a strong hint that more countries will be added to the red list whenever there's a report of further variants or the spread of existing variants.
Pressed on how long these latest restrictions will last, Hancock implied they'll last until vaccines (either existing or yet to be developed) have proved effective against all covid variants.
The rival politicians from other parties all said the new restrictions aren't strict enough.
I've paraphrased but the full writeup will be published in Hansard for 9 feb at parliament.uk.

All that's before whatever restrictions may be in force next winter in other countries against potential visitors from UK.

Obviously I'd love to be proven wrong......
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@peerless ploughman, I don't think kneejerk reactions by politicians now are a particularly good indication of what will be possible in 10 months time. But of course the situation depends on the politics in the destination countries as well as the UK.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Surely even our politicians are not so stupid enough to prevent foreign travel indefinitely for the theoretical risk of a variant which did not currently exist and may never come into being? That would be taking the precautionary principle to its illogical extremes.
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The public isn’t bothered about skiing but will be concerned if it affects their summer holidays, for a second year running.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
snowhound wrote:
Surely even our politicians are not so stupid enough to prevent foreign travel indefinitely for the theoretical risk of a variant which did not currently exist and may never come into being? That would be taking the precautionary principle to its illogical extremes.


We know how viruses behave. There will be mutations - there's already three major new strains (first seen in Brazil, South Africa and Kent) and many more strains have been seen that haven't become dominant. If the vaccine is ineffective against a strain and it gets into the country then we'll be back to square 1. The South African variant is currently not established in the UK, and the current vaccines are less effective against it. If it can be contained, then schools and pubs can reopen even if international travel can't. In hindsight, if we'd locked our borders down last February when the virus was spreading through Italy but we had only a handful of cases then we might have been able to avoid much of the disruption we've seen this year (the obvious case studies being Australia and New Zealand).
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Viruses mutate all the time. There is always a chance that a new and alarming variant will emerge somewhere in the world. Even when it does there will need to be sampling, testing and real world analysis to see if the current vaccines work on any new variant. This takes months in itself.

Therefore Matt Hancock has given himself the scope to keep the travel restrictions in place for an infinite amount of time.

Next winter is looking extremely unlikely now IMHO.
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@thelem, well, your argument is a recipe for closing them forever with no endgame because such a variant could arise at any time anywhere.
Problem in February that it all kicked off at just the time when millions of people were abroad and shutting borders there and then just couldn’t have been done. And don’t forget the WHO were telling countries not to close borders at the time...
I suspect the public will accept lack of foreign travel this summer if it means domestic life gets back to normal. But let’s not kid ourselves what impact that will have economically and the disruption it will cause to food distribution, industrial supply chains etc.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
snowhound wrote:
Surely even our politicians are not so stupid enough to prevent foreign travel indefinitely for the theoretical risk of a variant which did not currently exist and may never come into being? That would be taking the precautionary principle to its illogical extremes.



Why not? If UK residents are forced to take their holidays in the UK doesn't that just help boost a domestic economy? Money spent by people taking holidays in Cornwall, Norfolk, Lake District etc. Its more VAT collected; more fuel tax etc. If you were a Government looking at a soft way to clawback some of the money expended on the pandemic in a manner that is least intrusive, this is actually a good way of doing it.
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@FrediKanoute, There ain't enough capacity for everyone to holiday in the UK.
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@ Fredi...as I said before, holidays only take up a small proportion of overseas travel. Business, industry, food supplies, family reasons.....
My brother lives in NZ- a country much lauded for its quarantine. But their economy is based on either primary foodstuffs or services/professional skills. Everything and everyone comes in by boat or plane which is much easier to restrict than car/lorry. They do not have anything like the international industrial supply chains which we are plugged into.
And again, it is the indefinite nature of it. It is much much easier to impose restrictions than remove them. If you're scared of overseas variants which may not even exist yet, at what point do you decide that they are no longer a threat?
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Open-ended is not the same as permanent, surely?

As Van Tam said, we don't have the data at the moment to decide on when restrictions are lifted. But we soon will: in a few weeks/months, it'll be much clearer, and we can then lift restrictions, in a particular order, to a particular degree, based on hard evidence. The media keep badgering the scientists/politicians every day to 'give us some idea of when we'll be able to go on holiday.' and every day they get the answer 'At the moment we don't have the data, but we soon will'. The media say 'now that infection rates are reducing, when can we expect ..' and get the answer 'But hospitals are still more overloaded with covid patients than in the 1st wave, and more people are dying than in the 1st wave, so it's still too early to know. Give it a few more weeks.' but that doesn't stop them asking the same question the next day.

We have such a 24h news/media/web cycle and such a short attention span that we can't seem to cope with the idea that you sometimes have to actually wait for an answer.


Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Wed 10-02-21 10:01; edited 1 time in total
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MorningGory wrote:
@FrediKanoute, There ain't enough capacity for everyone to holiday in the UK.


As someone who rents out an upmarket holiday let on Airbnb, using Airbnb "smart" pricing, where they control the price based on demand, the capacity constraints are already seeing Airbnb prices rise significantly
We usually rent out the summer weeks for £1,400 per week. Last year it got to £2,100. At the moment it is £2,800.

There will be a lot of people who miss out on a holiday this summer, especially if they are constrained to school holidays.
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@LaForet, final line....fair point.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
The Transport Secretary said in radio this morning that people should not book their summer holidays.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@achilles, We're off to Barmouth for a week at the beginning of July Cool Very Happy Very Happy

Refundable if covid restrictions in place, but it's only £400 anyway.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
achilles wrote:
The Transport Secretary said in radio this morning that people should not book their summer holidays.


Yes but the Transport Secretary is Grant Shapps (enough said) and he is so well briefed that he reported 13.1 people have been vaccinated rolling eyes
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Double post
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Quote:

MorningGory wrote:
@FrediKanoute, There ain't enough capacity for everyone to holiday in the UK.


As someone who rents out an upmarket holiday let on Airbnb, using Airbnb "smart" pricing, where they control the price based on demand, the capacity constraints are already seeing Airbnb prices rise significantly
We usually rent out the summer weeks for £1,400 per week. Last year it got to £2,100. At the moment it is £2,800.

There will be a lot of people who miss out on a holiday this summer, especially if they are constrained to school holidays.


Last summer we ran a campsite in Cornwall. We were fully booked every single night from opening through to mid-September, plus we fielded an average of 50 enquiries per day from people desperate to find a pitch. The site planned to rent out 3-4 Bell Tents - we upped it to 12 and still could not meet demand. And remember, for at least part of last summer you could go abroad. If you want a summer holiday in the UK, get it booked asap! Supply will fall vastly short of demand.
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@MorningGory, Perhaps at tad insensitive to state "it's only £400 anyway". Let alone brag about it.
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@esaw1, Bragging about a cheap holiday? How much did your last skiing or summer holiday cost?
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@MorningGory, I won't be drawn.
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esaw1 wrote:
@MorningGory, I won't be drawn.


In 17/18/19 we spent £10k per annum on 2+ weeks travelling around India. Last year we spent £500 on a week in mid Wales and we have it held for this summer too. A deluded sense of optimism gives me hope we might get to India in October or November but we're not stressed.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
We've booked a load of campsites from April onwards (Easter probably a bit unlikely) - even doing it two weeks ago we had to fiddle dates etc at a couple of sites in Scotland (Morvich and Braemar) to get in so as said before if you can camp or want to camp then a bit of planning may be in order.
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esaw1 wrote:
@MorningGory, I won't be drawn.


What's that about then? you prompt conversation on whatever metric you're working to and then imply the target of your criticism is somehow wrong in responding.
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@orange, Ditto -have numerous weekends booked up (including some in March on off-chance they open) and then a few weeks in late summer. All cancellable, all no deposit so a safe bet.

If we can't take them so be it, but they're there is we can.

Everywhere is going to book up fast this year so book now - if you need to buy a tent to camp then get that ordered, they will sell out to
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