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Will my offered salary be enough to break even on a ski season?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
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Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Sun 6-09-20 9:47; edited 1 time in total
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Will they not feed you?
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@oxc652, won’t you get fed and watered?

In the 1980’s an ‘90’s I typically saved money over the season, despite buying loads of kit, beer and entertaining ...

YMMV.
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@oxc652, Most Chalet Assistant roles at that pay level will include your food (breakfast and dinner), at least on work days as a minimum, and you can often squirrel away leftovers for the other days - if it is not included £100 pw is not enough. If you are working in just one chalet as part of the team you could also expect a share of tips, though the amount of those can vary. Your £100pw should be basically beer money.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Sun 6-09-20 9:48; edited 1 time in total
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Are you sure that's legal? French minimum wage is 1500 euros / month.
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@davidof, excellent point
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Will they pay for your season ski pass? Are you insured? (accident & health)
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
I thought the rules were significantly tightened up by the EU a few years back and gawd knows what happens after 31/12. Can you work more than three months?

AFAIK, because I looked into it for a friend's son last year:

Seasonnaires must get paid at least French minimum wage for that kind of work (must be around a tenner an hour I would have thought - you can't only be doing 10 hours a week, so legally it's probably more like 1400 a month based on 35 hours a week)
Accommodation, food and travel are meant to be provided on top of the wage but I couldn't fathom whether it can also be a deductible - perhaps someone can clarify.
Lift pass etc gets deducted from the minimum wage but only if stated in the contract of employment.
Employment contracts, payslips all translated into French might be required by inspectors.
Accommodation has to meet minimum requirements like no bunk beds.

Maybe your employer is just telling you what your disposable income will be and they'll handle all the nitty gritty but worth checking - you do not want to be an illegal!
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Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads on Sun 6-09-20 9:47; edited 1 time in total
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The amount that can be deducted from the minimum wage is, well, minimal. You'd certainly expect to see more than 100 euros a week pocket money. It sounds like modern day slavery.

UK firms used to get around it using the posted workers rules but will that be possible for the UK? I thought they'd voted to end FOM and all that stuff? Maybe they use an Irish shell company or somesuch nonsense. I guess that's no worse than Google but still.


Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Tue 25-08-20 15:14; edited 1 time in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Quote:

a capped amount of electricity
(to prevent the heating being left on 24/7 - it must be managed & used sensibly), bed


Sounds like a con, surely the heating is gas? This would really put me off as they sound incredibly stingy. I would want confirmation that the apartment has gas heating, clarify what fuel the oven and hobs use, and what your electricity allowance is. I can't imagine anything more miserable then worrying about whether I could use an electric hob or boil a kettle for fear of not being able to use the lights at the end of the month. Even a pay as you go meter would be preferable to the described set up
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@oxc652, To be honest, I would be stunned if this contract was legal after the 31st of December. I can't see the posted worker directive (which is what is sounds like they are using) being continued in its current form after the end of the transition period and it wouldn't even make any difference if you had an EU passport, they are going to need to adhere to French regulations which they clearly aren't at the moment. If they can't give you a decent explanation as to how they will continue to employ you after the 31st of December then it seem foolish to accept this offer
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@rambotion, Gas heating? Not likely in France.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Quote:

It sounds like modern day slavery.


Somebody always has to throw out the slavery line! It's not comparable. The deal has always been you get lots of perks in exchange for poor pay, don't like it then don't accept the job.

£400 is clearly enough to feed yourself. Of course that's assuming you are going to a supermarket and buying your own food to cook (or even better send whoever is on the supermarket run to the cheap supermarket down in the valley), not eating on the mountain and going to restaurants.

The smart chalet hosts know how to play the game. On the days you are cooking you make sure there's enough to plate yourself one up too. The night before your day off take some milk, cereal, and, fruit for tomorrow's breakfast and make up some sandwiches for tomorrow's lunch. Dinner a big bowl of pasta and sauce saving as much money as possible for alcohol (although with the possibility of limited apres this year possibly won't even need that).
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I got paid more than that doing a season in 2006! We took home 100€ cash and tips and commission (activities and restaurants) on top per week and had all food, accommodation (as much leccy as we wanted - oh glory days indeed!) and we could use the vans to drive to other resorts to ski if we wanted, full area pass, ski hire etc etc oh and food even when we didn’t have guests.

The deal is always low paid but that seems particularly bad and unfair- pulling the ‘everyone wants to go to Val’ card
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Why would apres be limited next season? Certainly doesn’t feel like that in Chamonix ...
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Quote:

Why would apres be limited next season? Certainly doesn’t feel like that in Chamonix ...


Yes I mean it's not like there is a pandemic happening right now, that can be passed by close contact between people. I'm not saying thee will be no apres, but can you really see them having nightclubs open? It's clearly going to be a little different to normal.
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@oxc652, I can't answer your question as it seems a bit up in the air as to what they are actually offering you as a package. If it's any help for comparison I worked for The Mountain Trading Co (a subsidiary of TO Mark Warner) in the Rond Point, Meribel 1996/97. The lowest paid TO staff in resort that season (that I knew about) were chalet maids, who got a package of £32.50 a week, cash in hand PLUS travel to & from resort, lift pass, ski & work insurance, ski, boots & poles hire (but not snowboard & boots!), dorm style accommodation & three meals a day, and at least one full day off a week (in reality they were able to get up the mountain that full day plus 4 days of 10am to 3pm most weeks of the season). And the regular (and accurate) refrain of TO resort managers? 'No one is here for the money'.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
There was a case recently against a UK Tour Operator who didn't comply with Local Employment Laws, got fined €167,000, most are towing the line.

I'm not saying that everyone is, but those that still aren't are doing so at a massive risk to themselves;

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boarder2020 wrote:
Quote:

Why would apres be limited next season? Certainly doesn’t feel like that in Chamonix ...


Yes I mean it's not like there is a pandemic happening right now, that can be passed by close contact between people. I'm not saying thee will be no apres, but can you really see them having nightclubs open? It's clearly going to be a little different to normal.


Agree. Given the Ischgl, St Anton, Verbier etc COVID breeding grounds from March don’t see the clubs and après-ski mosh pits opening next year. Restaurants and (outside?) bars with restricted capacity is a more likely scenario. That’s basically what we have in Verbier for the Summer. Is Chamonix very different? Are the bats rammed full? Does the nightclub even open in Summer?
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@BobinCH, nightclubs - I dunno, but the bars and eateries can often be rammed in summer. And early August they were.........
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
The reason operators have historically used secondment roles, UK contracts, is that while they still have to pay French minimum wage, UK rules for deductions can apply, so they can deduct shed loads for food, accomodation, lift pass, travel etc. £100pw does seem low though - JanetS and I are being paid consideravly more than that, assuming next season goes ahead, though we are experienced chalet hosts/cook, runnimg a quite large chalet on our own. Days off have improved as well - 20/21 we are promised two full days off per week.
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@BobinCH, nightclubs? What are they again? I ‘m too old.

Chamonix just feels +/- totally normal - for the summer - masks notwithstanding. That’s All I’m saying. Certainly no indications that there will be no apres next season.
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Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads on Sun 6-09-20 9:47; edited 1 time in total
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@oxc652,

its still early in the job application and recruitment process. Most companies only get serious about recruitment after the summer holidays.

If you want to work in the Espace Killy I can recommend working for mountainSun in Tignes.

I've only done an Autumn season for them and yep, back when i worked for them it was minimum wage stuff but it also came with accom included, full ski pass, ski hire, food, a 30e weekly allowance/tab on their bar and their management team were very encouraging and fair.

Chalet roles like that are not for everyone but if you wanted to rock up and do a season with everything sorted out and laid on they they would be a good shout.

If you want a decent french contract job where you sort your own accom, ski pass, food etc have a look at Ski hire/Ski tech jobs, Tignes Spirit and SnowBerry in Val are two companies which spring to mind over in the espace Killy.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@oxc652,

P.S. if you do end up Chalet Hosting.... rember that anything can go in a baguette for lunch up on the hill.

One of my favouritte culinary inventions when doing chalet work was a Baguette Lasagnewich.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@247snowman wrote:
@oxc652,

P.S. if you do end up Chalet Hosting.... rember that anything can go in a baguette for lunch up on the hill.



Even dog food but call it pate
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@oxc652 I know it's obvious, but perhaps not so much - how about building yourself a simple spreadsheet of costs? Firstly, it would be a useful "And does this include ... ?' checklist to use against any offer, and second it would give you a clear credit/debit outcome to any offer. If you do get to an interview stage, it'd help you draw a line in the sand e.g. "Well, without meals included, it's not cost-effective for me to do this. Take it or leave it." or the converse "Well, what do we need to do to make this work for you?".

On a more general note, once you give it some thought, it looks very suspicious if your offers at this point are at all vague. Anyone who is running a business year after year should know what the schedule of costs is for an employee in this position. You'd think they'd be the ones telling you what's covered, in detail, not you asking them for clarification.
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