CARV digital ski coach

A snowHead

I'm back on mine for the next few weeks
The feedback, interface, general usefulness has improved dramatically since I first used them 2 years ago.
Only using "free ski" at present.
The runs I've had access to have been scratchy and icy and I struggle to get an edge in for much of the time - despite that I feel the "tuition" is helping.

A snowHead

I used mine in Italy last week as well.

Mixed response for me. First day, was really enjoying using it, and enjoyed the feedback and tips it gave me on the lift up, but in the afternoon the sensors disconnected, and it stopped working.

Tried it again the next day, and it cut out after lunch again. Spoke with Carv who did some looking in to it, and I had to do a simple reset.

Went to use them a third time and again they kept disconnecting.

Long and short of it is, they've said there's an issue with my left sensor and have to replace it.

Disappointing that I didn't get to use them much, and I won't have a chance for another 2 months and then just for a long weekend, so I won't get as much use as hoped this season, but the feedback I was getting I found useful, and enjoyed putting it in to practise.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

I have zero experience of CARV….I’ll admit that. And note I do like tech which helps with safety and navigation. Beacons and GPS very good indeed. But I have had really irritating experience in mtb-ing of people being completely focussed on route tech - every stop: bleep, ping, head down pressing buttons…going uphill…bleep bleep ping….going down…ping….of course you can turn off the alerts but people don’t…grrr….

Grief why are we out there? We shouldn’t forget that….

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@Handy Turnip, +1 if I'm skiing on my own i may leave the volume up on my phone to hear what Carv has to say about my skiing but normally I don't and just look at our after the day is done

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@valais2, I used mine with 1 headphone in on freeski mode, and the only time it really says anything to you is about 20 seconds in to a chairlift ride where it tells you your score and a tip to work on. When you start your run, it gives you a reminder of the tip you should work on and then that's it.

It's really not intrusive at all, and you don't need to look at it until you switch it off.

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I am leaning toward returning my Carv, but I thought I would describe my experience here in case I’m overlooking something. Background: I first skied at 37 (learning at the same time as my son), was quite active as he grew up, had fun and kept up with the parents of his friends through middle and high school, then stopped when he went to college. Six years later, I’ve moved to a town with its own learning hill and I bought a pass. I’ve been out about 20 days so far.

I realize I am a below-average skier and with a limited budget and enamoured of gadgets I thought Carv seemed like a good idea.

Here are my results so far:

Day 1 - still pretty shaky after my 6-year hiatus. Average Ski IQ: 73 (roughly the bottom 2% of Carv users)

Day 2 (with some non-Carv skiing in between) - temperatures in the upper 40s, slushy conditions slowing things down but turns felt easier. Average Ski IQ: 73

Day 3 (with some non-Carv skiing in between) - a deep freeze after a day of rain. The whole mountain is like a bumpy ice rink. Turning very difficult. Average Ski IQ: 73

Day 4 (with some non-Carv skiing in between) - a bluebird day, an inch of powder overnight though still a few icy sections. Best I’ve felt all year, managed to get into a good rhythm a few times. Average Ski IQ: 73

When I switch to the mode where it reads out a metric after every turn, things get even more confusing. A hockey stop at the end of the run was good for 85-95. A slow but (I think) well-executed turn where I was thinking about one of the tips usually scored in the 50s. When I stop thinking it’s in the 70s. I associate near-falls with 80s and actual falls with 90s.

It’s possible I’m just getting garbled data, or maybe it just doesn’t work at the low end of the distribution (none of the testimonials on their site are from anyone with scores this low). Either way, it’s kind of sucked out the joy from skiing.

After all it is free

If I were you I'd sell them. Or you could watch some of the free tutorials and/or go through some of the free drills and training exercises available through the app.
Forget about your scores - all you seem to have done, from your description above, is monitor without any will to improve.

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@Fpb1, skiing is amazing, and if it's sucked the joy from it, then obviously that's not good.

Personally I turn the audio off, put in free ski mode and just enjoy my skiing. I then review the feedback in the evening, and put into practice the next day. And I saw a continued improvement in my skiing throughout the week, and at the same time didn't let it interrupt my pure enjoyment of unburdened skiing.

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Do you really need a computer to tell you how much you enjoyed your day? I can’t imagine anything worse Toofy Grin

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@telford_mike I am in full agreement. The hardware is boxed and ready to return.

@telford_mike, @Fpb1, I am also in full agreement, which is why I use carv the way I do and will continue to. And no doubt be happy with.

I suspect their frustrations go deeper than carv.

You know it makes sense.

I don’t think my frustrations go too much deeper than carv. Yes, I’m miffed that an algorithm would tell me that after 15 years I’m in the bottom 2% of skiers and that after 15 hours of skiing I was not able to budge the needle. As a statistician by trade I know that their sample database of “bad” skiing is probably shallow and biased, because that is not the target market. Anyhow, in a positive spirit I will use the refund to pay for 5 hours of lessons - although with thin cover already and a 60 F degree day forecast for Wednesday, it might be a moot point.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

@Fpb1, I think using the refund to pay for 5 hours of lessons is actually a really shout. As has been mentioned quite a few times on here, Carv isn't there to replace instruction - and at the point you're at, having lessons is probably the best thing you can do to progress.

It's a shame you can't do both (but obviously understand that people haven't got an endless pot of money) - as hopefully lessons will give you an immediate step change in progress, and then you can use Carv to build on it.

Personally I have the audio switched off and just have it in free ski mode - so I can ignore it and just enjoy my skiing. I then review the feedback in the evening and put it's advice into practice the next day (again with audio off and in free ski mode). Using this method I managed to increase my IQ by 20% during the week.

But it's different strokes for different folks I guess..

A snowHead

A snowHead

@luanb, but how many days in each of those 25 years?

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Not snarky at all, thought I think that while time does not equal expertise, it does yield competence. Little Angel

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@luanb, would you expect to be a good tennis player on one week a year?

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Just back from ten days in Sunshine and Louise, my first time using Carv outside.

A mixture of sessions where I could really use Carv - so wide blues where I could (try and) carve and work on some of the drills - and other skiing where it wasn't appropriate to pay any attention to the metrics.

YMMV, but I found the times when Carv was appropriate to be really useful. It helped me to focus on pressure, edging and balance rather than being lazy and gave me immediate feedback which I found helpful. Other times I turned off the audio or Carv completely.

After all it is free

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Quick question: I’m thinking of buying Carv. I would like to share it with my kids & wife and not have to buy a subscription 4 times, which would be a bit pricey. How easy is it to swap the footbed sensor between boots (we are all similar sized ski boots)? Do I need to get 4 foot beds at 150 each or can I get away with only one? Advice welcomed.

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@gohuwgo, I actually don't have a definitive answer.
Tbh, I'd expect frequent swopping might not be the easiest thing to do. You'd need to recalibrate each time.
As far as I understand it, each unit has only one user so you'd be yo-yoing back and forth and I'm not sure how beneficial the tips would be for progression with the constant change.
For a specific day and on the spot feedback you'd be fine.

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Sorry, forgot the official answer

There will be a size guide - have you checked that? I think it's quite broadbrush,, but that's where I'd start.

You know it makes sense.

I hope this is the latest thread on this, apologies if not.

I used it for the first two over three days last week. And loved it. I bought it specifically to improve hip-down slalom turns. I feel like I can be too fast when carving, and not making sharp enough turns to scrub speed without some rotation.

I'm a reasonably experienced skier (a couple of full seasons under the belt and about 4 weeks a year, love bumps, off-piste etc) and it was a bit of a shock to see some (in my mind) some very average metrics for balance, and edge angles.

3 days skiing with it saw a big improvement. Ski IQ went up a bit, but managed to get various things far more consistent. And noticed a big difference in the process.

It does not reward lazy skiing at all. When I want to loaf about and not ski dynamically (and exhaustingly) I find it best to forget about the system..which if course you can, by turning it off.

Big fan, here. But it has also made me realise that my middle aged fitness is best described as "tragic". Some work to be done...

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

One would hope that improving technique would enable you to ski better, for longer, with less effort and therefore less need for "fitness".

A snowHead

I think several years of eating barbecue, cake and drinking too much have put paid to that idea, pam.

Normally I don't get tired at all - but I don't put a lot of effort in unless skiing bumps. Frankly, even off-piste and slush haven't been much of a problem as my big skis take much of the effort out of riding in those conditions. But when skiing dynamic carved turns on this seasons hard-packed snow, for much of the day, rather than just loafing along with mates, it turns out that all the fun stuff I have consumed has had a cost. Especially when constantly doing slalom turns, as you need to move backwards at some point in the turn, balance-wise and do a lot of "push-pulling" with the legs, and that murdered my withered and vestigial quads.

Mind you, my Peloton tells me the same thing. Being old, having young kids, enjoying food a bit too much and failing to do any meaningful exercise is apparently, not good for when you eventually exert yourself. Who knew?

Oh, for others on the thread, about the tech, I am running the Android App with a Google Pixel 6 Pro, and have so far had no issues. About to do a week in Italy, so will report back on whether it all goes wrong (either the app, or my much abused body).

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

@Harry Flashman, @Gustavo the Gaper, the concept of Carv cropped up in the thread about

Different ski styles? Or natural variation?

https://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=163377

You'll see that there's a mixed reception about it, the negatives are mainly from people who have not used it, but proof in the pudding is that both of you are enjoying it and more importantly feel that you're getting better, because of it Very Happy

I've plateaued a bit, and now have to get my topple and fear of it sorted out, but it's now French holidays and whilst we were unseasonably quiet last week I don't think it's going to be like that this week and for the next three Crying or Very sad

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I like it a lot so far but I feel that it is great for fine tuning stuff if you already sort of know what you are doing, and will be best used when mixed with some human instruction. Had I picked this thing up as the overly fast, overconfident intermediate I once was, I think it could have done further damage to my woeful and slightly dangerous technique!

I bought it for a very specific reason - and that was improving those hip-dragging SL type turns, where I just know I'm not quite where I want to be, and wanted some constant feedback.

I have since found out that more than technique is holding me back. Pies and beer are having an effect, too.

The thing that sorted my skiing out a while back was some full non-working seasons on snow and BASI training. CARV seems brilliant for ironing out specific kinks. For me it is largely about for-aft movement from my usual midfoot ski position in carved turns, and some pressure/angle unevenness sometime. The system is basically set up to sort out those things, so it was a good fit for me, now

But as I use totally different techniques for bumps, and for powder, or trees, or jumps and spins, CARV does seem one dimensional in many respects. I probably should have put that up in my impressions above.

I'm looking forward to taking it into a mogul field, or the park, and getting a Ski IQ of 17. I may try to use that score as my leaderboard position

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I'm nearly 60, took up skiing late in life and a cautious intermediate skier. I'm in the Alps for 10-12 weeks a season although not skiing every day Eh oh!

Carv had definitely helped me improve.

I've played golf; I've ridden horses (dressage, flatwork, jumping - not just hacking) and understand how subtle differences in timing, weight, movement etc can have massive effects.
Carv has given me the tools to bring that same kind of knowledge into my skiing.
The audio feedback - you know almost instantly whether you've achieved your objective, together with the online tutorials videos have been helpful.

Is it a substitute for a really good ski instructor?
Possibly.....I watch ski instructors with their groups and can't actually see them doing much teaching other than "follow me, copy this"
The nuances of feet, ankle and leg position are hidden under baggy clothing!
Caveat: I learned a lot from lessons with Noel at Chillfactore where he and his fellow teacher were able to watch us closely.

But... busy, uneven, chopped up, icy hardpack slopes aren't great for practice so much of the time I "freeski" without paying too much attention to the feedback and for this reason I'd probably not recommend Carvs for people who only have one or two weeks a season - lessons with a ski instructor would be better.

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So I have now used this for three full days, and have some further thoughts.

It is very very good if you want to up your carving game, whether at longer turns, or short, fast turns.

However, it is very poor at almost everything else. To be fair, the kind of skiing I have been doing is simply not what it is designed for, and the makers state this.

When I have time alone on an empty piste, and can use the space to really work on carved turns, it is superb. The "live feedback" feature is great. And so is the freeski mode, which helps you get certain bits right. I have found the fore-aft balance thing really, really useful, already.

However, in a crowded ski resort, skiing with friends, this sort of skiing is hard to come by. What one has to do is adapt constantly. So when you start rotations, do anything mogul related, or get airborne, the system goes a bit AWOL on you. Even in freeski mode, it starts getting very confused as the system (that helps you perfect your edged turns) goes bonkers at you for throwing in fast rotations, or the weird pressure metrics that moguls involve. As, let's face it, skiing bumps at when there are other people around requires a lot of adaptation; sometimes you are bouncing in between them, sometimes you are turning on top of them, and sometimes you are simply using them as mini-kickers. CARV's pressure sensors and algorithms seem to find this all a bit odd.

Also, if you're just being a bit lazy, and enjoying skiing and a winter holiday, it tells you off. The system appears to reward dynamic, thoughtful, energetic, carving behaviour. Solo sport, in other words. It doesn't seem to be set up for recreational, group skiing.

That said, I like it. It is doing what I wanted it to do - sorting out my fully carved turns, as long as I am putting some effort in. The feedback on this type of skiing is really useful. However, anyone who genuinely thinks that this (in its current form) can supplant an instructor is (in my opinion) is perhaps missing the nuance that much skiing is about constant adaptation, and throwing lots of different styles and approaches together, often too quickly for the system to really get a proper read/advice rhythm into place.

Perhaps I need to play with it a bit more - user error could well be a feature here!

I am looking forward to seeing what it tells me when off-piste, should I ever get another season where messing around regularly in knee-deep+ stuff is an option... Smile

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I had a client whose boots were so tight he was in pain and tried out two different pairs of rental boots to no avail... He hadn't skied in 3 years and the boots were 10 years old so I thought perhaps the plastic or liner had gone stiff. I had a closer look, took out the liners and found a Carve unit in the boot. Apparently he forgot about it as "it never worked"

We took out the carve units to get back the volume and his skiing was instantly transformed and not painful. A ringing endorsement for Carve Toofy Grin

After all it is free

@skimottaret, well all I can say that both of you somehow managed to miss the all important connection cable/output lead on each boot that for sure would have been an obvious tell-tale sign, unless you thought it was for a boot warmer, it doesn't say a lot for your observation skills Laughing

Someone who buys Carv, puts it in their boots, forgets about it, then can't understand why their boots don't fit, sums up everything that is wrong with skiing nowadays. Surely if your boots don't fit the first thing you would do is pull out the liners and check the volume adjusters and foot beds...

I am always staggered by the number of people who have so little basic knowledge around their boots.

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Yup. I had my boots adjusted after sticking the CARV thingies in. Despite their thinness, they had a definite effect and some spot blowing out (if that's what you can call forcing a heat malleable shell out with pads) was necessary.

But anyway, has anyone else used this setup recently?

I have entertained myself towards the end of today by trying to get the worst score possible. I discovered that skiing switch works for really having the system tell you that you are at remedial level and have no business being on the slopes Smile

I suspect that this element of entertainment is not what the good folks at CARV had in mind.

I shall treat it more seriously tomorrow and try one of the training packages. They look useful, far more useful than the freeski mode (which I am falling a bit out of love with after a scant 3 days, as I'd prefer more audio analysis on the lift than a Ski IQ score and simple tip), if more intrusive and less suitable for sociable skiing with chums.

On those soundbite tips - they are OK, actually, but in no way the detailed technical analysis of one's skiing, and what to do about it, that a teacher would provide. But that's when the app becomes useful, as you can open your phone and get tutorial vids easily. And some of those are actually very good. For example, the for-aft balance one in moving one's feet forwards and backwards to shift weight in a carved turn, rather than rocking around the foot midpoint, was transformative, and took a minute to watch.

Help!!

CARV digital ski coach

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