 Poster: A snowHead
|
Hi, has anyone shared a lift pass in the Paradski area between 2 parents who are sharing babysitting duties? We are coming over in March and are brining our 1yo son, I think its a bit early to get him on ski's!
I am hoping to buy one pass and one of us use it in the morning and the other in the afternoon?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
@aroma111, a normal ski pass is not transferable. Some areas do sell a parents sharing pass which is more expensive than a normal one but cheaper than two. You will need to check to see if that area is one of them.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
The official line is that you can't do it, but my sister and her husband have been doing exactly this for their usual annual trip to Les Arcs for the last 4 years and haven't been challenged or stopped. A season pass would have a photo on it and a photo would flash up on the lifties screen but a week pass doesn't. It will have a name on it so there is the possibility of getting stopped, but I'd imagine that parties of skiers get their passes mixed up quite often. Disclaimer, I'm in no way saying you should, or encouraging you to break the rules and you should also keep in mind that if you opt for the insurance that you can purchase with the lift pass this would only be valid for the person that the pass is supposed to be for.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| Quote: |
you should also keep in mind that if you opt for the insurance that you can purchase with the lift pass this would only be valid for the person that the pass is supposed to be for.
|
Thanks guys, do you know if I can purchase insurance for the other person separately?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
@aroma111, I bought Les Arcs passes online for a group earlier this season. When they arrived, they came with a piece of paper warning that if a skier was found with an incorrect pass that they would face a fine. I was under the impression that this was enforced by them taking a photo of you without you knowing as you went through the turnstiles for the first time and then this photo being double checked against you on subsequent trips through the turnstiles but it’s possible that I am wrong about this especially as @wills_h's friends have never been caught. If you and your wife are able to share jacket/goggles/helmet then this may reduce the chance of being caught if my understanding is correct.
It does seem a bit unfair as you will only be using the lifts to the same extent as a single keen skier.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
it's been discussed on here lots of times.... as@rambotion says
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@aroma111, have you looked at “ski a la carte” not sure if its an option for you. The carre neige insurance is linked to the pass, I added it on to ours and had to have the passes reissued.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@aroma111, When the pass flashes up on the laptop ( if a SAP person is there ) , it only shows a picture for a season pass ( with good reason* ). Other than that it indicates Adult/Child/OAP, and I believe that's all they're really interested in ( I.E. stopping adults using a child pass or OAP pass). Personally I see no problem with it, and have seen it done many times without any problems. After all only one person can be using the thing at any one time.
(* obviously as the season pass is so massively discounted compared to a week pass, they need to control that much more stringently )
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
It's fraud pure and simple, if you think that is ok then carry on. The rest of us will share the costs of piste preparation, lift infrastructure, snowmaking etc the same way we carry the costs of other law breakers every day!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I had this here last week. Husband had 6 day pass, let his wife use it one day and was caught and fined.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
@Chris_n, How would it cost more to prepare a piste for two people skiing half a day each compared to one person skiing a whole day ?
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
I managed a full week in St Anton with a child’s pass. Only noticed when I took it out of pocket last day to claim deposit.
I was never pulled up, nor was my son using the adult pass.
So resorts may be able to check individuals’ photos, but often they check absolutely nothing.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Chris_n wrote: |
| It's fraud pure and simple, if you think that is ok then carry on. The rest of us will share the costs of piste preparation, lift infrastructure, snowmaking etc the same way we carry the costs of other law breakers every day! |
+1
@eblunt can you not work it out? Each pass sold contributes to the revenue of the lift company. Yes, if one or 2 people did it, then the effect would be minuscule. What if 50% did it? Where would draw the line at what would be an acceptable level of fraud?
I have heard of people in St Anton being referred to the Police for using another person’s pass. The more usual response iis apparently to cancel the pass and block you from buying another period pass in your name.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
@eblunt, I was going to reply but @ulmerhutte, has beaten me to it and is spot on.
Edited to add, there are fixed costs associated with the points I raised. As a simple example if a cost is €100 and 10 people pay then it's €10 each. If only 9 pay then the 9 who are paying have to cover the cost of the 10th so must pay €11.11.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
@aroma111, Skiing half a day each is not much fun as you can't travel too far for the need to get back. You'll end up skiing the same runs all week.
What about you getting 2 x 3 day passes and one of you ski for the first 3 days and the other for the second 3 days?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
I can see how this must be a real issue these days!
When our kids were small we shared a pass (usually a day pass because you never know how small children are going to be, plus we often drove to different small resorts). It never occurred to me it was wrong, after all there is only one of you using it at any one time and when you have small children on the slopes with you your usage is always going to be very limited. I don`t think it ever occurred to the lifties that it might be wrong either, as we would regularly un clip (yep those were the days) the pass and swap it in full view of the lifties (sometimes the liftie had actually sold us the pass). And on one occasion going up with my eldest the liftie handed me the pass from my husband because in the whole change over of childcare at the bottom of the lift I had forgotten to take it. The kids were all too young to need one.
Most days we would each try to go off for perhaps a hour each, onto slightly more challenging terrain, whilst the other had a coffee break/nightmare time keeping an eye on small children in snack bar area. My husband usually pushed his luck by being longer  , claiming he`d miss the way back  The lifties could clearly see what we were doing. They were always great, and supportive to families. To be fair these were small resorts and used a lot by families so maybe their t&c allowed for it. I don`t ever recall seeing the tc`s up anywhere.
Surely with modern technology and the stricter terms and conditions which apparently apply, all resorts should now offer a family pass. Presumably anything they can do to encourage parents to take young children to their resort, or onto the slopes at all, would be a good investment in the future usage of their resort and of ski resorts in general?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| CaravanSkier wrote: |
I can see how this must be a real issue these days!
When our kids were small we shared a pass (usually a day pass because you never know how small children are going to be, plus we often drove to different small resorts). It never occurred to me it was wrong, after all there is only one of you using it at any one time and when you have small children on the slopes with you your usage is always going to be very limited. I don`t think it ever occurred to the lifties that it might be wrong either, as we would regularly un clip (yep those were the days) the pass and swap it in full view of the lifties (sometimes the liftie had actually sold us the pass). And on one occasion going up with my eldest the liftie handed me the pass from my husband because in the whole change over of childcare at the bottom of the lift I had forgotten to take it. The kids were all too young to need one.
Most days we would each try to go off for perhaps a hour each, onto slightly more challenging terrain, whilst the other had a coffee break/nightmare time keeping an eye on small children in snack bar area. My husband usually pushed his luck by being longer , claiming he`d missed the way back The lifties could clearly see what we were doing. They were always great, and supportive to families. To be fair these were small resorts and used a lot by families so maybe their t&c allowed for it. I don`t ever recall seeing the tc`s up anywhere.
Surely with modern technology and the stricter terms and conditions which apparently apply, all resorts should now offer a family pass. Presumably anything they can do to encourage parents to take young children to their resort, or onto the slopes at all, would be a good investment in the future usage of their resort and of ski resorts in general? |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
CaravanSkier,
I agree. Surely, with the technology available now, a resort could come up with a shared pass ie 2 (linked) electronic passes - but only 1 allowed on the slopes at any given time.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
Several resorts do offer a parents sharing pass. But can’t see a sign of one for Les Arcs.
Lake Louise and Dolimiti super ski do ones
Think I saw one available for Salen in Sweden.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| Bergmeister wrote: |
CaravanSkier,
I agree. Surely, with the technology available now, a resort could come up with a shared pass ie 2 (linked) electronic passes - but only 1 allowed on the slopes at any given time. |
They could, and to be honest sharing a lift pass works technology wise, as you can’t both be on the slopes together as they won’t allow multi use at one “gate”. And however unfair it seems, if it’s in the T&Cs then it’s not allowed so don’t be surprised if fined. As said above, some smaller resorts may well allow it or overlook it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I know if I had very young children now I would only consider going to resorts that offered a family pass, so that either parent could use it. As much as a matter of principle as cost. It is ridiculous to have to pay for 2 full passes when you can only ever use one at a time, and that on a restricted basis!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
We did it in Les Arcs 4-5 years ago without troubles. I don't know if their surveillance tech moved on since, so do it at your own risk
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| CaravanSkier wrote: |
| I know if I had very young children now I would only consider going to resorts that offered a family pass, so that either parent could use it. As much as a matter of principle as cost. It is ridiculous to have to pay for 2 full passes when you can only ever use one at a time, and that on a restricted basis! |
+1
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I was hoping we could do this next wekeep. My husband won’t be skiing so I thought if I finished at 3pm he could take our son up the lift for the toboggan run while I go for an early sauna. Otherwise I’ll have to do it so I can’t see that the lift company loses out. If he needs to buy his own ticket just to do this then frankly we just won’t do it and will go for a swim instead, or I’ll have to take him. I’d happily pay a few euros more for the flexibility, just not a whole lift pass more!
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
Not that it’s particularly relevant but we managed to get our passes mixed up at L2A last year (long story involving red wine having been taken when I was buying them and re-using old passes) and there was a couple of kerfuffles until we finally managed to get them distributed to the satisfaction of the head man at the moan jumping off point. I would imagine that once you are up the hill there’s no technology but at the main gates it would be a problem
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
There is often someone checking at the main lift in Monetier that the person using the pass is the right one. I've been asked to remove my helmet before. Usually have a season pass, but they definitely take photos on weekly passes here, as son was questioned when he wore a different jacket
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
| ulmerhutte wrote: |
| @eblunt can you not work it out? Each pass sold contributes to the revenue of the lift company. Yes, if one or 2 people did it, then the effect would be minuscule. What if 50% did it? Where would draw the line at what would be an acceptable level of fraud? |
When the lift pass company sells me a 6 consecutive day lift pass I am sure they build into their financial model that I would be using it most of the day, for all 6 days. The number of people for whom it would be make sense to share a lift pass would be minimal. I've done it twice in around 50 trips. Most people I know will have never done it either because they don't have kids, have their children in a creche, etc. So I see at as no loss/cost to the lift pass company.
But the debate has been had before... it is what it is... and you take the risk if you want to....
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
aroma111
Don't want to get caught up in the right & wrongs of this but we were skiing Les Arcs at Christmas - ski passes came as a bundle from the accommodation provider. I went to the lift pass office on the first morning and collected 11 passes. No names, photographs or any other identifying feature on any of them.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
Was it ever OK to share one tax disc between 2 cars (when there were tax discs), NO is the answer. You can use all of the same arguments about getting away with it etc but it is just plain wrong!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| snowlamb wrote: |
| Don't want to get caught up in the right & wrongs of this but we were skiing Les Arcs at Christmas - ski passes came as a bundle from the accommodation provider. I went to the lift pass office on the first morning and collected 11 passes. No names, photographs or any other identifying feature on any of them. |
As mentioned above you get photographed on your first pass through any of the lifts with the appropriate technology and that photograph then comes up each time you pass through the lift stations.
The strip on the card will also hold if it's a junior, adult or OAP lift pass.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
If the terms and conditions state it’s not permitted then yes you are in breach of the T&Cs if they are silent on the point then technically there is nothing that can be done to stop you. If it is specifically permitted by the T&Cs then fill your boots
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
The Tax disc comparison doesn’t really follow through though does it. You can’t get on the lifts without a lift pass but a car can get on the road without a tax disc.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
If the terms and conditions state it’s not permitted then yes you are in breach of the T&Cs if they are silent on the point then technically there is nothing that can be done to stop you. If it is specifically permitted by the T&Cs then fill your boots
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
My wife and I were in a queue in a crowded lift in St. Gervais when the system rejected her pass. Turned out she had one of our parties child passes with her by mistake. We were taken into the back offices and ordered to pay the balance to top the pass up to a weekly adult pass from its start date plus a fine. They were adamant that we had purposely bought a child pass for her to ski for a week on it and they were very unhappy about it. It was a genuine mistake and after I insisted that they check their system to prove the purchase of her actual pass they chilled out a dropped the issue.
None the less it was horrible experience. They clearly take a seriously dim view on what they thought was lift pass bucking.
I appreciate the OP isn’t trying to do this though.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
There are two issues with this..
Firstly you are in breach of terms of the contract and could impact insurance issues should anything go wrong - unlikely but its skiing.
Secondly you could get caught as resorts have implemented small cameras on the barriers where you scan your pass. I think they take a snap on first use which can then be compared by the operatoor in the hut each time you pass the barrier.
Following ticket fraud prevention features copied from the Skidata turnstiles web page:
Prevent Ticket Fraud
Efficient, direct photo check for lift attendants with persons at the access point (Photo Compare)
Photo camera in the scanner to take photos of people entering
Height sensors differentiate between adults and children
Control computer for managing and monitoring access onsite
Ticket information and photos are displayed clearly
Passes can be blocked, checks run reports generated.
Overhead monitor for large-screen display of photos directly at access point
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Regarding the tax comparison. That's a tax on the vehicle, not the road. Hence the name.
The term lift pass suggests it's just that, a pass to use the lift, and shouldn't really matter who's carrying it. If it's supposed to be only used by one person they should call it a person pass.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
Ive been pulled up for using my wifes pass by mistake and she had mine, and this had been the cass for a few days as I hadnt worried about them saying M or F on them. Luckily she was right behind me so we swapped passes and the liftie could see it was just a mistake.
If they record whether a man or woman buys the ticket then you give it to someone else of the other gender to illicitly share then its an easy spot for them to make at the lift. No sharing of jacket googles helmet will save you.
Also the kids and junior passes made a different sound alert when scanned so another first up alert for the staff.
I did see someone else being pulled out of the queue. Couldnt follow the conversation but he was not happy and pulling out his wallet as we got onto the lift.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
“All our SkiPasses are personal, excluding the Parents Pass, which is assigned to two people”
Helpfully I’ve just found this in the t&cs of where we’re going in Austria, so hopefully I will be able to buy one of these! Not that I can see an option online, but I can ask out there.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
realised I make a typing mistake and 'quoted' instead of edited 