 Poster: A snowHead
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Has anybody worked out an easy way to find out how much the myriad companies offered by autoeurope etc. charge for taking a car out of Germany? The Ts & Cs mostly just refer to "an extra charge" "at the discretion of the hire company". Thanks
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I did this last week and they didn't charge us anything. We were with Europcar - I don't know if this was because they missed something (doubtful), but we definitely didn't pay an excess.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@James the Last, between €25 and €30
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Budget car rental didn't charge me last year from Munich. I Told them I was going to Austria. I booked with them direct as it was the same price as auto Europe.
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Wed 23-01-19 19:49; edited 2 times in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Seems to vary.
On the online Europcar site it was €15 cross border fee (and that was the first time I've ever known them to charge a fee - I've never paid even when I said I want to take it to other European countries both in and out of EU), but also in the T+C explaining exactly which countries you are entitled to take the car.
But I've also booked a car online, collected it at the local Europcar office, and they said "Oh we've given you a free upgrade to a 4WD SUV... you should take it to Austria and go skiing!".
I never use the 3rd party brokers, only direct, but booked through a 3rd party microsite to get cheaper rates and hotel loyalty points.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I found an article which gave the different charges. Will hunt for it again again but my take away was these guys don’t charge extra.
Avis, Budget, Hertz, Europcar.
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no charges with Sixt either.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Also read the small print on your hire agreement - I have a hire car with Megadrive out of Salzburg arranged via Holiday Autos, and we'll be travelling about 10 miles in Germany each way. The very small print says that a cross border charge of €20 will be made unless you notify them in advance, in which case it will be €10. There's no way to do that in the Holiday Autos system, so I opened a support case with them and they emailed Megadrive who confirmed it had been added to the booking at €10 to be paid at the desk. Previously, I've been asked to pay €25 on collection by various companies, including Sixt (spawn of the devil, who I'll never book with again).
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Hertz Munich are supposed to charge the cross border fee, but you can't tell them on the web site that you are going into Austria so you can't pre-pay it. They occasionally ask you the question at the desk, and if you are honest you will get charged. I use Hertz Gold so don''t queue in the airport, perhaps they are better at asking in there, they certainly don't do it very often in the car park.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@musher, the cross-border fee is not just some bureaucratic extra to boost their profits - it is to extend your insurance to include the rest of the EU, and if you have not paid it and then have an accident in a country which wasn't declared at the time of rental, the CDW and everything else on the rental is invalid. If the car is written off, instead of paying the €600 excess or having it reduced to zero if you extended the cover, you could be liable for the full repair or write-off cost of all vehicles involved... so when you smack your hired BMW X5 into the side of an AMG Mercedes by going through a red light you didn't see, you could be looking at €150K 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@musher, I read your post and feel slightly sick. You'd save £20 to expose yourself to the sort of level of risk that ousekjarr, has outlined?
Though I don't understand why the freedom of establishment rules mean that the insurance - or hire car - companies are allowed to charge you extra for travelling within the EU. But hey, I am not an EU lawyer.
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@James the Last, the EU rules mean that personal insurance in any member state includes basic cover in all other member states. In old terms, this means 3rd party cover. If you write off your car overseas, don't expect your UK insurer to treat it the same way they would in the UK. My insurer says:
| Quote: |
| We can issue you with an annual Green Card. This gives you the minimum insurance for the country you are visiting, which is the equivalent or less of our Third Party Insurance. Or we can give you a maximum of 90 days Foreign Use Extension on your Comprehensive or Third Party Fire & Theft Policy for a small charge (trips for three days or less are free). |
Corporate insurance is not covered by consumer legislation, so there is no such automatic level of cover.
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You know it makes sense.
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Booked a hire car for March to drive from Germany to Austria via EasyRentCars.com and they actually had a 'take car out of country' booking option, and got a confirmation email from them saying it was confirmed with the rental supplier (Avis) and, in that case, free. So some companies can handle it through their online booking systems.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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There are some hire companies in Munich, from what I have experienced the "cheap" ones, that do charge per country if you drive outside Germany. It is simply a way to make more money, there is no reason to do so. I have not had this problem with Sixt, Hertz or Europcar either booking direct or through Auto Europe. This is not to say other companies might not do so in the future. Some types of car are prohibited from entering certain countries, so the hire company might say a Porsche must not leave Germany, Austria or Switzerland, or no BMWs in Croatia etc. The basic offering from Sixt now only includes third party insurance (the legal minimum), if you want comprehensive cover (including theft) that is an "extra", the cheapest option for this is with an excess of € 950. I have annual excess insurance but that would not cover the cost of replacing a car if it was stolen, the cost of insurance needs to be added to the daily rate.
Maybe the rules for Sixt in Salzburg are different but I hired a car in Munich 10 days ago from Sixt which I drove to Austria and Switzerland no additional costs for driving outside Germany and at the moment our company has a hire vehicle from Sixt which again is being driven in Switzerland and Austria no additional costs.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@ousekjarr, I am surprised that any hire car company does not have adequate insurance to cover cross border journeys??
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@under a new name, they do - but they pay extra for it, and they recover that from the customers. No payment = no contract = no cover. They may have insurance on the value of their car, but you agree to refund them for all costs incurred unless you have taken out their additional cover, and this is valid at the time of your accident. Same if you decide to return the car a day late and don't bother telling them about it - as well as being rude and inconvenient to the next hirer, it also invalidates your cover as that terminates at midnight on the agreed return date. One reason why you should never arrange a hire until 2300 and then turn up at 0030 due to traffic - if you damage the car on the way into the airport, you may not be covered...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@James the Last, Used Sixt at Stuttgart and went through Germany, Switzerland, Lichtenstein, Italy, Austria and back to Munich and IIRC the only extra was because I wasn't returning the car to the same town. Nothing about taking it out of Germany. I would think a significant % of cars hired at Munich airport at this time of year will leave Germany.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@robboj, I hope you told them that the car was leaving the country, rather than just them failing to ask...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I once hired from buchbinder in Munich (or megadrive..whtever it is there) and as sked if I was taking the car out of the country. On hearing I was going to Austria he just shrugged and said "ach, it's all the same"  On future trips I had to pay extra
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@ousekjarr, I'm not sure whether you may be in the insurance industry - always dangerous on a forum. But equally some things you write do not agree with my understanding, as follows.
Firstly, I do not think that the Green Card is required at all for travel within the EEA, Andorra, Serbia and Switzerland. https://www.mib.org.uk/making-a-claim/accidents-in-the-uk-involving-a-foreign-registered-vehicle/green-card-system-explained/
Secondly, even when you do have a Green Card the Green Card is for the benefit of the people you hit, not you. It proves that you have the minimum third party insurance required for driving abroad. DO expect your insurance company to treat you the same when abroad, and to give you fully comprehensive cover. Otherwise people would never take their expensive cars abroad!
Thirdly I thought your insurance company has to give you the same benefits anywhere in the EU as it does at home. Just as mobile phone companies were recently required to give you the same pricing anywhere else in the EU as at home. This has nothing to do with consumer legislation, and everything to do with the freedom of establishment principle that all places within the EU are equivalent - this applies to companies and to Sovereign States as well as individuals.
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I'm hiring a car from enterprise at Munich Airport to drive to St Anton in 3 weeks - I've done this via Holiday Autos ... here is an extract from the rental conditions contract :
Travel Restrictions
You may drive the rental car to certain countries outside of Germany. There are certain restrictions on car classes and makes/models.Cross border travel is allowed into Andorra, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, France, Gibraltar, Great Britain, Ireland, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, Monaco, Netherlands, Norway, Austria, Portugal, Sweden, Switzerland and Spain.Cross border travel into Croatia, Italy, the Vatican, San Marino, Poland, Slovakia, Slovenia, the Czech Republic and Hungary is allowed except for the following brands: Audi, BMW, Mercedes, VW, Land Rover, and Jaguar.
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@ousekjarr, you are giving out wrong info here, just doubled checked the Sixt T&Cs and in Germany there is no requirement to inform them of where you plan to take the vehicle only restrictions on what countries you are allowed to drive in (its in German couldnt be bothered looking for the English version)
| Quote: |
Fahrten ins Ausland und Einreisebeschränkungen
Einreisebeschränkungen
Die Fahrzeugwahl kann die Einreise in bestimmte Länder beschränken. Zur Beschreibung dieser Einreisebeschränkungen werden die Länder in drei Zonen eingeteilt.
Zone 1: Andorra, Belgien, Dänemark, Deutschland, Finnland, Frankreich, Gibraltar, Großbritannien, Irland, Italien, Liechtenstein, Luxemburg, Monaco, Niederlande, Norwegen, Österreich, Portugal, San Marino, Schweden, Schweiz, Spanien und Vatikanstaat
Zone 2: Estland, Kroatien, Lettland, Litauen, Polen, Slowenien, Slowakei, Tschechien und Ungarn
Zone 3: Alle Länder, die nicht in Zone 1 oder Zone 2 liegen.
PKW der Marken Jaguar, Maserati, Land Rover und Porsche sowie alle Luxury Cars dürfen nur in Länder der Zone 1 einreisen. PKW der Marken Audi, BMW, Mercedes-Benz und Volkswagen dürfen bis einschließlich Gruppe L*** nur in Länder der Zone 1 sowie in Polen und Tschechien einreisen, ab einschließlich Gruppe X*** nur in Länder der Zone 1. Fahrzeuge aller anderen Marken dürfen nur in die Zonen 1 und 2 einreisen.
LKW, Transporter, Minibusse und Vans aller Marken dürfen nur in Länder der Zonen 1 und 2 einreisen.
Die Einreise in Länder der Zone 3 ist grundsätzlich nicht gestattet.
Bei Verstoß gegen die Bedingungen für Fahrten ins Ausland verlieren sämtliche Versicherungen und Haftungsbeschränkungen ihre Gültigkeit. |
basically you can drive their cars anywhere in the EU but with some restrictions on the ex eastern bloc countries especially for luxury vehicles.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Buchbinder charged me €20 to take a car from Munich into Austria. They'd told me in advance there'd be a charge for going out of Germany so I can't really complain. Overall they were still a lot cheaper than the other options.
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[quote="James the Last"]@ousekjarr, DO expect your insurance company to treat you the same when abroad, and to give you fully comprehensive cover. Otherwise people would never take their expensive cars abroad!
Thirdly I thought your insurance company has to give you the same benefits anywhere in the EU as it does at home.
Don't think so. This from the Direct Line T & Cs....
"This policy also provides the minimum cover you need by law to use your car in:
• any country which is a member of the European Union..."
The key words are minimum cover. They then go on to say "For an extra premium, your policy can be extended for an agreed period to provide the same level of cover under section B, C and D as you have in the territorial limits...."
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@Matt1959, Thank you for that clarification. Having now bothered to google it I am now better educated having found a gocompare.com article:
"On 4 April, 2014, Gocompare.com analysed 247 comprehensive car insurance policies listed on the matrix of independent financial researcher, Defaqto. interactive-map-for-driving-abroad.
While 83% provided cover for foreign use as standard, only 16% provided full cover as an optional extra (for which a fee was payable), and three polices provided no overseas cover at all."
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@James the Last, I'm not in the insurance industry, but I have some experience of it from both sides, and have taken the time and effort to make sure that I am covered. I drive to Austria every year, and have driven extensively in France, Netherlands, Belgium and Denmark. I've also driven in Luxembourg, but you can't call that extensive 
In the link you posted, there are two critical pieces which you need to read and understand:
| Quote: |
| The Green Card is an international certificate of insurance providing visiting motorists the minimum compulsory insurance cover required by the law of the country visited |
While it is no longer mandatory to carry a green card, some insurers require you to be issued with one and pay an additional fee to extend this cover from the equivalent of 3rd party in the UK to full comprehensive cover. To make that clear - if you are involved in an accident, the cost to recover and repair or replace your vehicle will not be covered unless you have specifically extended your insurance.
| Quote: |
| A National Insurers' Bureau (Green Card Bureau) guarantees that a victim of a road traffic accident caused by a foreign vehicle, originating from a country participating in the Green Card system, will be compensated in the country of accident |
For an accident in e.g. Germany where you are deemed to be at fault, you are the driver of the foreign vehicle, and this says nothing about compensation for you. Again, this is describing third party cover. Your insurance will pay out to the other driver. It will not pay out to you, because you do not have comprehensive cover in Europe unless you pay to extend your policy.
The EU rules on freedom of establishment are different in every industry. The mobile phone rules were changed because the companies were blatantly fleecing their customers and actively avoiding any attempt to make them aware of the potential cost. For car insurance, the furthest the EU were prepared to go was to make sure that anyone with insurance in any EU country could cover the cost of compensating the other driver if they caused an accident. The reason for this restriction to essentially Third Party cover is that the insurance companies take on a significant risk when they extend their cover to the EU, and this would be reflected in higher premiums. To ask everyone in the UK to pay 25% more on their insurance just in case they want to drive in the EU seems non-sensical, and no doubt the Daily Mail would be up in arms if such cover became mandatory.
From your post, "Otherwise people would never take their expensive cars abroad!" - oh but they do, because they don't think about it, and assume that they are covered. When did you last question the level of cover included in your policy? Never, right? But you have travel insurance, and make sure that skiing is included, and you may even check that off-piste skiing without a guide or instructor is included if that's something you want to do. Have you asked them what cover you have if you lose control, ski off the side of the piste and fall in a ravine? Probably not - and yet some insurers will say that this is clearly off-piste skiing and you're not covered, and if you want to argue the point then you have to take it up with the insurance ombudsman or take them to court.
@munich_irish, I am not giving out wrong information on hire companies - almost all will charge you a cross-border fee. If Sixt don't, that's one small thing in their favour. My experience of their claims handling in Austria is a big minus, which is why I'll never use them again. It's also the case that some include it in premium packages, but as most people search for the best price, the companies offer this by dropping the extras if they are not essential. This is also based on geography - if you hire a car in Basel or Geneva, you first have to work out which country you want to hire in because the airport straddles the border(s) and has an exit into each country, and then they'll specifically ask if you are entering France, Switzerland, or Germany because it is a very regular occurrence. In Kassel, they're unlikely to ask the question - it is a 4 hour drive in every direction to find a border. If they don't ask and you don't check, who is at fault in the event of a claim? You can be certain it won't be the hire company.
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Also, how many people take their expensive company car out of the UK without written approval from the company and their leasing partner? Some companies are very hot on educating their staff about this, but others don't bother. In many cases, the car is not insured, and the company is liable for any damage because the lease company specifically require notification of EU use, and the company's insurers do as well.
In much of Europe, it is a legal requirement to carry the V5 registration certificate in the vehicle. When have you ever been given one for a company car? See https://www.parkers.co.uk/company-cars/2017/taking-your-company-car-abroad-make-sure-you-have-the-right-documents/
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You know it makes sense.
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@ousekjarr, all excellent advice
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| ousekjarr wrote: |
| In much of Europe, it is a legal requirement to carry the V5 registration certificate in the vehicle. When have you ever been given one for a company car? |
They won't give you one (for obvious reasons), but they will give you a certificate confirming that it is a hired vehicle which is an acceptable alternative to the V5.
| Quote: |
| The reason for this restriction to essentially Third Party cover is that the insurance companies take on a significant risk when they extend their cover to the EU, and this would be reflected in higher premiums. |
Really? Is a driver significantly more likely to have an accident because they are abroad?
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Poster: A snowHead
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@ousekjarr, you seem to be seeing all this from a very British perspective. Of course you need to have your registration document (or similar) and evidence of insurance in the car, it is a legal requirement in most countries same as carrying your driving licence and passport / id. No "3 days to produce your documents at a police station" (or has that gone in the UK these days?).
If you have an accident you must call the police, they decide liability. It doesnt matter if it is a simple knock with no injuries.
No one around here would even think of telling a hire company they were driving to Prague or Zürich it is no different than driving to Frankfurt or Berlin. They may do things differently in Austria but all the major car rental companies here have similar t&cs to Sixt. There are some at the airport who charge extra fees, as far as I can see this is a way to extract more money from tourists, put cheap rates on places like Auto Europe and make up for it with various additional "local charges", its the same the world over with car hire. At least we dont have Goldcars here......
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@James the Last, factors which probably lead to an increased risk of accidents for UK drivers while driving abroad:
1. Driving on the right hand side of the road
2. Driving a right-hand drive vehicle on the "wrong" side of the road for the driver
3. Unfamiliar road layouts, especially at roundabouts, cross roads, and where priority is not always clear
4. Unfamiliar signage and traffic lights - one acquaintance thought that the "Stau" warning on an autobahn meant "Stay in lane"...
5. Different driving standards, speeds, and expectations
6. Sub-optimal car lighting for driving at night due to beam deflectors
7. Different weather than at home - lower temperatures, ice, snow, etc
8. UK-spec "summer" tyres in winter in places which recommend or require winter tyres (just like the Dutch drivers regularly fined in Austria)
9. Longer than usual journeys with increased fatigue
10. Increased alcohol consumption while on holiday
11. Variable speed limits dependent on the weather
12. Very slow moving trucks on gradients much steeper than in the UK
13. Lack of traffic reports on the radio (present, but not in a language they can understand or on a station they want to listen to)
14. Hurrying to make the ferry/tunnel/dinner/last orders - general time pressure
15. Vehicle overloaded and with poor rear vision
16. Having the family in the car... 
17. Partner driving when they usually don't drive in this car 
Much of this applies in reverse for EU drivers in the UK, as the rash of accidents with foreign trucks over the last 2-3 years demonstrates.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Ah. 'probably leading to higher risk' rather than 'significant'. Most of these apply to a holiday to Scotland.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@James the Last, agreed. Do Scotland a favour and stay inside the M25... it's dangerous out there!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@NickyJ, Hertz charged extra on a minivan to Austria from Munich last year. Sixt did not charge this December
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Is this charge somethibg specific to Germany? Never had a cross border fee charged when renting from Swiss or France. Some companies have offered cross-border emergency breakdown service which I have always declined.
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@Ozboy, I rented in Nice in August, and was asked whether I would be visiting Monaco or Italy. That was with Holiday Autos via Dollar/Hertz.
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| Snowsartre wrote: |
| @NickyJ, Hertz charged extra on a minivan to Austria from Munich last year. Sixt did not charge this December |
Yes, as I said in my next post what I had been quoting was situation for the reverse as we are hiring in Austria but need to traverse through Germany. Which explains why we found hiring one austria more expensive than Munich when we were first looking at flights to Munich to then drive into Austria.
The link I gave above has a good table of the two directions
Last edited by After all it is free  on Thu 24-01-19 16:37; edited 1 time in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I've accepted a one-off €10 charge with Buchbinder, in exchange for saving £100 by renting with them rather than Sixt. Looks like a deal to me.
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FAQ
