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New skis - all mountain ~90mm waist

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Hi all

Looking to upgrade a pair of 08/09 Scott Punishers I have in 172cm.

They’ve served me well - starting from a season in 09/10 and 1/2 weeks a yr since. I added some 188cm rossignol s7’s to a couple of years back for skiing powder.

I picked the punishers as a solid all mountain option and have had good times both on and off piste - they’re playful and the shortness of the ski has meant they’re super easy to manuevre- just a bit sketchy at speed.

I’m looking to upgrade them. I’ll go a little longer in length and look to drop the twin tip as I’m older (read: bit heavier, less time in the park) and looking for something built for chopping around a resort - so charging around piste and messing abouts in easily accessible side country. However where there’s fresh snow/more challenging off piste I’ll be on the S7’s.

Therefore I’ve been looking at a few options - ski only as I ended up sticking some new marker griffons on the punishers after a binding failure a couple of yrs ago!

Atomic Vantage 90 CTi (last season)in 176
Nordica Enforcer 93 (last season) in 177
Black crows orb in 178

Leaning towards the atomics - any thoughts on the options here, any other options and the length? I’m 6ft tall and 87Kgs.

Thanks in advance!
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I have the Atomics - love them. I'm 80kg and have the 184s, they have a lot of rocker so maybe try 176 and 184 and see what you think.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I have the Atomics in a 184. They are not hard to ski at that length. I am 80kg and 183 cm.

They are not going to be as quick turning as the Punisher but will feel a lot more stable at speed.
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If you can get a Vantage 90 CTI 16/17, you will be happy Happy by fat the best version (White/blue).
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Another vote for Atomics.
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Just lobbing another one in - maybe demo the Black Crow Atris in 184 - more stable at speed; better all mountain than the Orbs; you may prefer them to the s7's in European off piste ...
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Scott Slight 93
Scott Scrapper 95
Whitedot Altum 94
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Lottsa good sticks out there brandwise............ Hell, everyone's making a v. good product. Among the many exceptional brands where one cannot go wrong, I acknowledge to you - beginning and ending with Señor Clearvision - Blossom of (Italy) and J of (USA), two marques most of you have no idea about. Both are exceptional to put it mildly.

Personal ownership and experience (prejudice) notwithstanding on both brands, each mfgr. superlative all-mountain skis within their line up. J gets up there in triple digit width, but his MasterBlaster is "narrow" at 96 underfoot and off the Beaufort/Richter Scales with confetti thrown in for good measure in terms of anywhere in all condition. An insanely fun, fast (if you like), confident, perfectly balanced and powerful ski. Uber Ballistic, too. Visit both companies website if you're so inclined. Special shout out to these two exceptional companies who truly hand make skis in the truest sense and fully know what they're doing. I only use Look TT which make a positive difference, also. Mega Look TT (Pivot) disciple, here! Today - Xmas Eve was a nice day on an much older set of Atomic I still use once and a while, especially early and late season because they're really good and still work............. Have an even older pair from over twenty years past that I still roll out a few days each year to remind me of how it used to be. They draw big guffaw and smiles. Wish I knew how to post a pic of them on this impossible to post pic forum. You'd all drop your jaws And laugh................
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@clearvision, Ever thought of Scott Sage in 188?
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In the great tradition of ‘recommending what you’ve got’, I’ve been very happy with the BC Orbs in 178. Just back from a week’s skiing in Aosta, where they performed admirably, although I had two work hard to keep an edge on hard icy pistes early in the day. For corduroy and powdery off piste, they were excellent - precise when you work them, carve well on edges, but fairly forgiving at the end of the day when the legs and head are tired and technique gets a little sloppy in places.
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Kaestle?
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skimastaaah wrote:
@clearvision, Ever thought of Scott Sage in 188?

Scott dropped the Sage at the end of 2016.
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@arcsinice, hadn’t realised that Blossom were selling their own brand, but now you mention it, I think I recall seeing a pair in Champoluc last year.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Thanks all for the suggestions. Given I can get a great deal on some 2018 atomics (the last CTI, not the white and blue ones) I’m leaning towards them - it sounds like piste performance is better than the orbs so that swings it too.

A few advocates for the bigger 184cms - are the 176’s at risk of being too short?

Until recently - i never really felt the punishers needed to be longer, and I’m conscious they have a fair bit more tip/tail rocker than the atomics. I had a slight issue this yr where my tips dived and I took a lengthy tumble on some crusty stuff off piste. Not sure if additional length is what would fix it, or being on the S7’s (more underfoot) or just being a bit fitter haha
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@clearvision, defo 184.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@clearvision, I don't think the 176s will necessarily be too short, but 184 will certainly be more stable at speed on piste. Depends what you're after really. As I said above - they have a lot of rocker - 15% tip and 10% tail.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
184 at your weight. Final word: they are more of a fat piste ski than an all mountain ski if that makes any sense. Or at least that is my experience of them.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
spyderjon wrote:
skimastaaah wrote:
@clearvision, Ever thought of Scott Sage in 188?

Scott dropped the Sage at the end of 2016.


2017

Exactly why they are under-priced at the moment. Glisshop have them for £300. They have the same (but wider) construction as the current Scott The Ski/Black Majic


"Still as fun and as versatile, the 2017 Scott Sage is a powerful powder ski. Its tip rocker and its 100mm waist for a 178cm ski, make it a real all-mountain ski. It is a super fun toy to cut between the slopes and is surprising in freeride; thanks to its handiness it takes speed and floats great. You will be happy to ride it if you encounter crud and crusty snow, the Sage smashes everything on its path. This versatile ski as more than one trick upon its sleeve, it delivers an insane grip and a stunning stability on groomed runs. You will appreciate its flat tail that provides a good kick out of turns that makes it even livelier. In the end we have here a great everyday ski able to attack on any terrains and in all snow conditions."


I've always wondered why damn good skis get dropped from manufacturers ranges. Same as Blizzard's Latigo, just as formidable as the Bonafide or Brahma, but now no longer available, unless you can find new-old-stock.

https://www.glisshop.co.uk/alpine_ski/scott/sage-103211.html

Or alternatively a bargain at the moment! f:0" target="_blank">https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Scott-Black-Magic-Downhill-versatile-skis-177cms-virtually-unused/202541742664?hash=item2f286dba48:g:NhMAAOSwAFFcGTmJ:rk:5Neh Nehf:0
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@skimastaaah, The Latigo and the Black Majic, despite being great skis, just didn't sell as they basically cost the same to produce as their wider relatives and as Blizzard & Scott don't own a binding brand they were unable to compete with the ski/rail binding packaged offers from the other major brands. It was a real shame as I sold a lot of them purely because they were flat mounted so could be Quiver Killer to share bindings with wider skis or could be mounted with KneeBindings.
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@spyderjon, Silly as it sounds I have the impression that the ski manufacturers out of necessity are "retail focussed" rather than "end-user focussed".

So by definition they cut their cloth (or shape their skis) to maximise profit rather than provide great skis.
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The margins in ski manufacturing are such that no maker can carry any passengers.
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@spyderjon, Amer Sports (Salomon parent company) had 2.6 Billion Euro income in 2016. With total assets exceeding 2.7 Billion that year. But ONLY 127 Million Euro income 2016. That's about a 5% operating margin. The Finance Director should look at cutting back on sponsorships, focussing on "grass-roots" skiers, making innovative skis again!


(I just picked Salomon for a quick example.)

source .…. Wikipedia.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Thanks all - pulled the trigger on 184’s this morning.

Any idea where I can get them mounted in London next week? The marker griffons on my punishers need transferring over. Both S&R and Eli’s Brigham are quoting 7-10 day turnaround and I fly on Sat the 5th.

If not I reckon my best bet is to dismantle the griffons from he punishers then fly with bindings and flat skis and get them mounted in resort on the Saturday - Slight risk they’ll be too busy but hoping I can play the fact bindings were bought from a shop in Val a couple of yrs back!
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@clearvision, talk to Finches in Forest Hill. Is right next to the station.
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