 Poster: A snowHead
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Hope minimal effect on snowHeads’ travel plans through airport closure 9pm last night and ongoing.
This level of disruption, caused by a couple of drones flying near the airport, suggests tighter controls on buying and operating these devices is needed.
In the meantime, I hope those responsible are found and dealt with. Good luck if you’re heading to the snow via Gatwick.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Not sure tighter controls would help here. Suspect this is a coordinated action.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@BergenBergen, if a coordinated action, which seems quite likely, doesn’t that increase the need for tighter controls?
I believe deliberate acts of drone misuse carry a maximum sentence of 5 years imprisonment. Let’s see what happens if perpetrator(s)?arrested.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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What tighter controls would one propose?
If it's an off the shelf one by DJI etc. then they have gps based fencing to stop them operating in exclusion zones. And will automatically brick themselves until you log in to their servers and update the software.
You can make a drone from a cheap arduino, an old wii controller, and a couple of cheap motors and props.
Someone suggested blocking the radio signal. Good luck blocking the entire 2.4GHz ISM band 
BBC story says that 2000 flights were affected from about 9pm onwards. Didn't realise that airport was *that* busy.
I'd assume it's either a hoax or the new terrorism.
PS and when I'm PM, fines for things like this will automatically contain a bill to cover the costs of the policing and courts man-hours, and all consequential costs of disrupted travel, and all costs for relocating aircraft etc. That cost recovery part of fines will be for all convictions, regardless.
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Thu 20-12-18 9:47; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Due to fly LGW GVA tomorrow evening, just bought LCY GVA tomorrow morning. This is going to take days to work through.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@PeakyB, Agree there does need to be tighter controls, registration, licences etc to prevent the random Joe Public doing something stupid but in this case its a form of terrorism. There was a case a few weeks back where protesters were convicted of terrorism offences and the argument then was had the law been applied appropriately.
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I reckon they need a gamekeeper with a high powered rifle to patrol the airport perimeter.
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@andy, @BergenBergen,
registration of drones might be a good start.
If it can be done for more than 30m road vehicles, it should be practicable.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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get the army to practice their drone on drone warfare
There are enough rules & laws about drone flying & the book should be thrown at whoever it is or the registered purchaser if they are under the age of prosecution.
I used to fly model airplane & there are tons of flying restrictions.
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Just got home after our flight to LGW last night was diverted to Cardiff!
3 hours waiting to be offloaded and then a long taxi ride to collect our car.
Been a long night!!
From what I've gathered this was an industrial drone (whatever that means) and was a deliberately targeted act. Apparently, if caught, the pilot will face 5 years imprisonment. I think he should be also be made to reimburse everyone for their additional costs and disruption.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Well supposedly it's coming in, but it's a bit like gun licensing and registration.
Yup the guy getting a DJI Mavic for Christmas to film sick edits can register with CAA, and it's just a necessary bit of paperwork.
Those of us who fly "flying models" which are already subject to ANO etc. laws (that we were also party to for the creation of) could have numerous kits and mods and crashed models that have been ransacked for bits and turned in to a trigger's broom new model. I'd maybe have 30 models in the store room to register.
One of the US laws did it right. Register the person who flies (with some rule about minors being allowed to fly on a parent's registration), and oblige the flyer to affix flyer registration details to the drone, or RC glider, RC plane, RC Heli, model rocket, etc.
Of course, the criminals and terrorists will most definitely comply with that and get BMFA membership and insurance too.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Ray Zorro, glad you are home safe, sorry that you were caught up in it. I hope you don’t have to work today?
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| andy wrote: |
Well supposedly it's coming in, but it's a bit like gun licensing and registration.
Yup the guy getting a DJI Mavic for Christmas to film sick edits can register with CAA, and it's just a necessary bit of paperwork.
Those of us who fly "flying models" which are already subject to ANO etc. laws (that we were also party to for the creation of) could have numerous kits and mods and crashed models that have been ransacked for bits and turned in to a trigger's broom new model. I'd maybe have 30 models in the store room to register.
One of the US laws did it right. Register the person who flies (with some rule about minors being allowed to fly on a parent's registration), and oblige the flyer to affix flyer registration details to the drone, or RC glider, RC plane, RC Heli, model rocket, etc.
Of course, the criminals and terrorists will most definitely comply with that and get BMFA membership and insurance too. |
My hubby is a RC Glider and complains of the same thing 
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You know it makes sense.
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@NickyJ, mostly model rockets here. 30 is conservative. I'm excluding all the tiny ones that would barely clear the tree line that wouldn't even be worth it.
We've been on a week "messing about with flying models", and "the drone" by the end of the week was a totally different one cobbled together from bits from about 3 different people and a trip to B+Q to replace half the frame. That'd be a fun one to register
But then it's not us BMFA members that are the issue. It's the tw@ts that think "wouldn't it be a laugh...?"
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@NickyJ, I had planned to have a full work day - but I guess I won't be very productive now!!
Currently filling in my compensation claim with EZY. Hope it's repaid as it's one huge taxi fare!
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Poster: A snowHead
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| andy wrote: |
@NickyJ, mostly model rockets here. 30 is conservative. I'm excluding all the tiny ones that would barely clear the tree line that wouldn't even be worth it.
We've been on a week "messing about with flying models", and "the drone" by the end of the week was a totally different one cobbled together from bits from about 3 different people and a trip to B+Q to replace half the frame. That'd be a fun one to register
But then it's not us BMFA members that are the issue. It's the tw@ts that think "wouldn't it be a laugh...?" |
That’s the problem and what Andrew is finding is that more and more places are banning flying because of drones, an RC Glider with no power and flown with somebody with BFMA insurance is a world of difference to somebody messing around on a drone especially when they are beyond visual range flying but rarely distinguished between in the rules.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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What a pain, @Ray Zorro. I feel for everybody who is having their travel disrupted. Miserable. Control of these things is clearly a difficult problem. What worries me is that the flyer is making monkeys of the substantial enforcement resources trying to catch him. They are going to have to find better ways.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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The usual health and safety **** - as tomj says shoot the things down - some good practice for the police firearms unit. As long as you don't aim sideways any energy in the pellet should be well lost by the time anyone is in range. Probably the drone has 'uman rights tho'.
I am really sorry for those affected and their chances of getting replacement flights must be very limited at this time of year and Christmas plans wrecked.
If caught 5 years is not adequate - should be made to scrub the tarmac by hand for every day for ten years on hands and knees and without gloves.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@countryman, yes..I wondered why they weren't shot down. Too small?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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They need to catch the flyer, not the flown, I guess. And anyone bent on serious disruption would have a spare ready to take to the air, wouldn't they?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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For those arguing about shooting it down, drones even commercial ones are small to shoot one down you need to be able to see it, I will point out that last NIGHT it was dark, you are talking about seeing something smaller than a toddler at night maybe 1000ft above you flying at say 40mph have you any idea how impossible that would be to spot from the ground let alone shoot down ? not to mention bullets in a sky full of commercial airlines ... really ?
The only way to deal with this sort of thing is to use another drone to fly alongside and bring it down, some work has been done along these lines but still bloody hard to do at night, if as reported they were still flying it about at 3am I'd treat the bug doing the flying as a terrorist
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Flightradar24 hasn't looked like this in a while...
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It's unbelieveable that Gatwick (and any other commercial airport) in late 2018 hasnt got a virtual wall around the runway that brings down drones. Drone tech has been around for 4-5 years now and in an age when the terror threat is so high and MI6 are so advanced etc that the airports havent been instructed to introdcuce an exclusion zone at their perimeters for say 1km high is very surprising.
Busiest weekend of the year, and a drone is stopping flights - unbelieveable situation, Gatwick Ops Manager must be under a bit of pressure.....
Last edited by After all it is free  on Thu 20-12-18 13:08; edited 1 time in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Just on the news that there is some sort of exclusion zone but it was breached.
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MI5 for home soil actions.
Anti-drone tech is tricky. The spectrum they use is commonplace, and the comms is encrypted so you can't just 'take it over' or jam it without local disruption. Shooting down is rarely practical as you need someone in range of it and have to deal with what happens if a kinetic shot misses. Net launchers or equipped drones are similer. Some success with trained birds, but they have a bit of a temperamental nature and are as likely to just bugg off and sulk in a tree as to go after a target.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Those that use WiFi (which I doubt that one was) are really easy to take out. It'll disconnect every other WiFi in the vicinity too, but that's merely a short side effect.
If it's "standard" 2.4GHz RC radio gear, then the airport staff could fly 150 standard drones looking for it, and not one single one would be jammed due to too much signal.
My money would be on either activists that would be found guilty under that law about endangering an airfield (that was mis-reported as a terrorism law), or something engineered by the authorities to make so much of a hoo har that it speeds up the introduction of laws that keep the innocent under control, but not the criminals.
Probably activists. Just like the pillocks that invaded airside @ Stansted? recently.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I guess this could be the fun activity of choice for the lads who used to sit in their bedrooms hacking into the Oval Office?
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Someone with friends all over the world - but none in this country.
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You know it makes sense.
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I expect there’s a few of us snow heads flying out of Gatwick this weekend? Terrorist threat or not I’m finding it very worrying?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Really hope you all get out and back OK
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Poster: A snowHead
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Program on CH5 this evening, just about to repeat at 18.30 hr with title listed as drone news specifically about Gatwick situation.
They need clay pigeon shooting skills to get that, old fashioned deer shot cartridges should easily take it out. 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I haven't seen any footage of these drones over Gatwick, which must indicate how difficult it would to shoot one down..
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@albob, there was some on the news
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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To be honest, is there much hope when a policeman talks like this :-
Firearms could be used to shoot the drone down, Det Ch Supt Jason Tingley has said.
Mr Tingley said the use of firearms "will be within our suite of tactical options available to us going forward".
“The assessment earlier on today was that we wouldn’t be using firearms and capability to deal with the drone," he said.
"This is a continually reviewed process so you will know and have seen that we have firearms officers deployed today."
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Yes, maybe they are related 
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The media seem keen to suggest that it may be an environmentalist behind the disruption, I rather think it may be blackmail, given that the drones appeared every so many hours - the blackmailers deadline for Gatwick airport to pay the ransom demanded- ....I guess they finally paid up last night?
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Wasn't that the recharge time?
There-in lies the crux of operating anything remotely which is powered by batteries.
What have you got? About 30mins deployment, then two hour recharge?
There comes a point when anything operating persistently must come closer to detection, so cut and run at some point to terminate the trail. Could be operated from a van for example and launched from different locale, starts to build a video trail of vehicle.
Fixed land base must eventually start to draw some sort of witness awareness, too much and timed observations are going to start collation of evidence.
Some people out there just like to break things, with no obvious reason.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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For all the "Just shoot it down"/"Just jam it" fanboys, the the real work it's a lot more complicated - https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/12/20/gatwick_drone_non_shootdown_reasons/
In short:
Shoot it down.
1. What if you miss/bullet goes through? Where does the bullet go/who's liable for injury/damage in the ~2.5 square mile landing area for said bullet?
2. Where are all the bits going to go - if on the airfield you need to pick them all up to prevent them causing FOD (Foreign Object Damage), of off the airfield who's liable for injury/damage if bits land on them?
3. If hit but just 'winged' where's the drone going to go? Who's liable for injury/damage if it hits someone/their property/an aircraft?
Jam it.
1. You can jam the 2.4 GHz frequency but that will wee wee off a lot of people/lead to possible liability claims and won't make any difference to the drones if (as I would if it was me doing it and didn't want to get caught) they were actually flying to pre-programmed waypoints (you can stop, launch, then shoot off to the landing zone, minimising the chance of being caught). And if you do jam, it you have the same 'What happens to the drone next?' issue as with 'winging' it with a bullet.
2. You can jam GPS but that's going to wee wee off even more people/lead to more liability claims - and can you be 100% sure it won't have ANY impact on the systems on aircraft on the ground. I probably won't but don't think anyone's ever tested it so nobody knows, making it quite a gamble. And again 'What happens to it next?'.
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They need an arm of those drone attacking eagles/birds of prey! 
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FAQ
