 Poster: A snowHead
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The word I got is that the light colour screws should have replaced the darker ones at the same time that the top plate was added (also if it was retrofitted to the old gen) which im told are holding much better.
All just in a quick chat, not got all the details though.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I've just been Googling. I can't link (because I'm writing this on an iPod) but if anyone who is interested wants a full explanation, you can get it by searching with Google for 'wild snow strength of Dynafit radical'.
I remain skeptical though, if the stronger screws and top plate fixed the problem, why have they gone back to the rotating heel lifter for the 2018/19 bindings with the Radical 1 toes?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Any update when the S Lab Shift is available and whether it lives up to the hype?
Anything similar in the pipeline from Dynafit or Marker?
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| BobinCH wrote: |
| Any update when the S Lab Shift is available and whether it lives up to the hype? |
Was chatting to an Austrian guide up in Lofoten who had been skiing a pair for about 6 weeks. Feedback was very positive, with the big question mark bei g how they will stand up to a whole (or several) seasons of abuse...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
I remain skeptical though, if the stronger screws and top plate fixed the problem, why have they gone back to the rotating heel lifter for the 2018/19 bindings with the Radical 1 toes?
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Thats the "Turn", its a cheaper basic Version, the toe Piece also doesn't have the power Towers. The "clic-clac" climbing aid Version is still in the range as the "ST Radical".
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| BobinCH wrote: |
| Any update when the S Lab Shift is available..... |
My Shifts are due to arrive second week of September. I'll be putting up a pre-order offer soon.
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@spyderjon, no problem, if you would you like me to put some early season testing on them 😉
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| dulcamara wrote: |
| Quote: |
I remain skeptical though, if the stronger screws and top plate fixed the problem, why have they gone back to the rotating heel lifter for the 2018/19 bindings with the Radical 1 toes?
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Thats the "Turn", its a cheaper basic Version, the toe Piece also doesn't have the power Towers. The "clic-clac" climbing aid Version is still in the range as the "ST Radical". |
Slightly afraid to disagree with you as you've proved me wrong before, but I'm fairly sure that the ST Radical with the non rotating toe has been dropped, and replaced with a new binding, that has the old non rotating Radical toe (with power towers), a brake and a rotating heel piece that has the same lifters as the Speed Turn. Said binding isn't widely available yet as it is too new, but they had it in Sport Conrad when I was in Garmish in March (This is a different line of bindings to the new Radical with the rotating toe).
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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so what's the difference between the Radical 2 ST toe and the ST Rotation toe?
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As far as im aware apart from some fancy anodising it just has the updated excenter (Lever). Originally, I think it was the first to have the ball and spring to centre the toe while you are stepping in, however that has been added to the rad 2 now as well.
Long answer short, not much.
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You know it makes sense.
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Ah I see thanks. To be honest I'd have thought the marketing department would have come up with "Radical with balls", surely much more saleable than "Rotation"?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| dulcamara wrote: |
Hey all, just to satiate my curiosity.
What is your favourite ski touring binding? (can be a frame binding as well of course) And why?
Is there anything you wish was better with the current bindings on offer? |
I don't really have a favourite touring binding but this is what I use currently
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Poster: A snowHead
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| dulcamara wrote: |
| happy to debate away because its helping me get to grips with the market. |
The ST Radical Turn is interesting. When I first noticed it in Sport Conrad, I thought that if I wanted a tech binding with a brake, that would be the one I would choose, mainly because it is an amalgamation of well proven components from other bindings. The sales assistant was a bit bemused by my enthusiasm, and said that he would never encourage a customer to buy that binding over the other Dynafit options, because it is too fiddly to use.
Still loving my low ramp angle, brake-less, Kreuzspitze bindings though.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Mine will be atomic/Solomon shift!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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+1 ^^^ mine arrive in whistler in september , heard only good things about the shift , so will see , but seems like the perfect compromise for all but the longest day and multi day tours
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| dulcamara wrote: |
| ... Maybe not the first gen though... |
Indeed, with design problems that have appeared with first generation of vipecs, guardians (rail bending) etc, it would seem prudent to wait for a season before trying a totally new binding?
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I generally do wait yes, though to be fair, a lot of the time I have seen touring bindings breaking because people are not treating them with the care they would another lightweight safety device. Not always of course, sometimes there are design flaws, but sometimes issues come from not quite understanding how they work or treating them like a heavy alpine binding.
examples are:
- kicking them to clear ice off boots
- turning heel pieces the wrong way
- stamping on climbing aids
- severely over-tightening the lever when switching to walk mode,
- slamming skis with brakes into the snow and bending them forwards
But the simple fact is, all touring bindings can break if they are hit in a way they weren't designed for so just treat them with a little care ad dont be afraid to read the instructions (sometimes there are some little tips in them).... please 
Oh and finally even though the binding is the first thing people blame you would be amazed how often the reason for a pre or none release is the insert, that's why any binding manufacturer will ask for the binding AND boot. Toe piece release is a precise art (tolerances in the 0.01mm range), I personally recommend real Dynafit inserts (so do friends at other binding manufacturers) the others can be a bit of a lottery, some are great, some simply don't work as they are intended (not saying which sorry).
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Haha yeah IBK and Munich are a different beast! But the N. American and British freeride markets just cant compete with the Euro touring market.
Ok just for fun.
What do you want in a touring binding...
suggestions are:
- flat ramp angle? (not getting into that pointless argument)
- a flat walk mode?
- some torsional rigidity in the tail? or do you feel that there isn't much twist between the ankle and toe of your boot?
- Easy step in or better hold?
- A brake (very UK thing that one) but should it be automatic or happy to flick a switch?
- Length adjustment? if so how long?
- Prefer aluminium/plastic/steel?
- ability to switch walk ski mode staying in the binding?
- Elasticity in the release or lighter weight?
- Very exact DIN values or happy to have a little play if performance is enhanced?
- Futuristic look or classic engineering?
What else? This is a chance to have your desires heard.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| dulcamara wrote: |
Haha yeah IBK and Munich are a different beast! But the N. American and British freeride markets just cant compete with the Euro touring market.
Ok just for fun.
What do you want in a touring binding...
suggestions are:
- flat ramp angle? (not getting into that pointless argument) = as close as possible to Alpine feel
- a flat walk mode? = don’t they all?
- some torsional rigidity in the tail? or do you feel that there isn't much twist between the ankle and toe of your boot? = not really
- Easy step in or better hold? = easy step in (for sketchy situations)
- A brake (very UK thing that one) but should it be automatic or happy to flick a switch? = Switch fine
- Length adjustment? if so how long? = yes at least 10mm to manage boot changes with differing BSL’s
- Prefer aluminium/plastic/steel? = light and strong - whatever’s the best compromise
- ability to switch walk ski mode staying in the binding? = not necessary (how do you get the skins off?)
- Elasticity in the release or lighter weight? = elasticity
- Very exact DIN values or happy to have a little play if performance is enhanced? = enhanced performance
- Futuristic look or classic engineering? = Futuristic
What else? = WiFi controlled heel risers 🤣
This is a chance to have your desires heard. |
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@dulcamara, Integrated GoPro mount? Concealed WiFi speakers?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| dulcamara wrote: |
- flat ramp angle? (not getting into that pointless argument) An absolute must for me (delta > 5mm is not great)
- a flat walk mode? Must have.
- some torsional rigidity in the tail? or do you feel that there isn't much twist between the ankle and toe of your boot? I don’t notice anything really. As much down to the boot as the pins I’d guess without doing some sums.
- Easy step in or better hold? Better hold (for sketchy situations and a decent spring will help avoid the lack of engagement resulted from ice build up that is the cause of pre-releases  )
- A brake (very UK thing that one) but should it be automatic or happy to flick a switch? Having used both brakes and leashes, I’ll be ditching the leashes when the brakes are as simple and effective as the MTN.
- Length adjustment? if so how long? One boot size or so either way.
- Prefer aluminium/plastic/steel? No plastic for structural components or where deflection could cause a problem (vipec risers...). Al alloy FTW.
- ability to switch walk ski mode staying in the binding? Limited value unless you’re a racer so no for me.
- Elasticity in the release or lighter weight? Tricky one actually. I’m happy with no elasticity for a ski mountaineering binding. If you’re going to have elasticity, best to do it properly with an alpine type heel: biggest difference felt to me here.
- Very exact DIN values or happy to have a little play if performance is enhanced? Not sure what you mean by ‘a little play’?
- Futuristic look or classic engineering? Classic. Form should follow function at the lighter end of the spectrum or it’s wasted material/cost.
What else? This is a chance to have your desires heard. |
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Selection of colours?
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| dulcamara wrote: |
Haha yeah IBK and Munich are a different beast! But the N. American and British freeride markets just cant compete with the Euro touring market.
Ok just for fun.
What do you want in a touring binding... |
Oh absolutely! And for sure it's a very viable and growing market!
We've spoken about this lots already and I'm aware many of the problems are peculiar to either my technique or biomechanics, but I want a touring binding that FEELS (literally the feeling is all I care above, I have no issues with pre-releases and - so far - I crash infrequently enough I'm not hugely fussed about release factors) like my alpine of frame touring bindings.
You, Menno, and others have proved that current tech bindings can do that for some - but I just don't feel that I can ski the same way in tech bindings. And once I've put the effort in to hike up something, I want to feel 100% confident that I can ski down the way I'm used to, without getting used to the feel of different bindings in the short vert. available in touring runs.
Other than that, from your list:
- brake is a non-issue for me; fine with a leash
- flat-ish ramp is nice, but not the end of the world
- def want a flat touring mode, and prefer two riser options
- materials: if it holds together fine, beyond that I don't care
- nice to be able to transition without clicking in and out of binding, but again nice to have rather than essential
- I definitely notice the difference between Speed Turn and Kingpin when it comes to working the tail of the ski
- light is nice, but for me, as long as standard tech efficiency is there, ski feel trumps all
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You know it makes sense.
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so far answers I would expect, and i would love to hear more so please keep them coming.
couple of points..
Ramp angle, you can have 0 delta if:
- You accept you dont need a brake (lots have tried moving the brake to the front but the market never takes it on)
- You put the whole toe piece on a riser plate, but then if you dont have a brake then you will be miles off the ski. this is why you now see the big stomp blocks which need to account for varying sole thickness.
Materials:
This is a big impression over reality factor. POM or PAGF is a much better material than 7075 aluminium for certain components, unfortunately customers usually assume that it is done to save money and that alu must be better. simple answer is, it is lighter, roughly as strong per gram and able to be formed easily into complex shapes to transfer load or save weight.
Release,
All DINS change as conditions change i.e. ski bending or temperature variations, It is possible to counterract these issues but it always costs weight. so establishing priorities is important.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Quote: |
- flat ramp angle? (not getting into that pointless argument)
I don't actually want 0 delta, but the delta on some touring bindings feels huge and creates quite a ramp angle especially if you have a small boot (my touring boots have a 265mm BSL). I have the Dynafit radical 2 which I think has a 9.5mm delta. Whilst the up was great I could never get anything close to comfortable on the down, and always felt like I was about to somersault over my toes. Spyderjon made me some 5mm shims for the toe pieces this season which has made a huge difference to the ski down without any noticeable impact on the up.
- a flat walk mode? Definitely
- some torsional rigidity in the tail? or do you feel that there isn't much twist between the ankle and toe of your boot?Can't say I've ever noticed this
- Easy step in or better hold? I find the radical 2s ok but I wouldn't want it to be much more difficult... fine if it's nice and flat, less so if you are trying to clip in on some sloping angled crud
- A brake (very UK thing that one) but should it be automatic or happy to flick a switch? Brake important but happy to flick a switch
- Length adjustment? if so how long? Enough to drop up or down a boot size
- Prefer aluminium/plastic/steel? Alu
- ability to switch walk ski mode staying in the binding? Not important
- Elasticity in the release or lighter weight?
- Very exact DIN values or happy to have a little play if performance is enhanced? Happy for a little play
- Futuristic look or classic engineering? |
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Poster: A snowHead
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Low delta is the biggest change I would like to see. Having put 6mm shims under both my pairs of Dynafits (Speed Radical and FT1s) they ski much better.
I would like to see easily removable brakes so you have the option to go brake, leash or nothing depending on plan for the day.
Happy to have a bit of weight to gain elasticity, non U spring heel and some perceived strength.
So for me the G3 Zed is the most interesting binding coming next year. Reluctant as always to be a first year tester though.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| dulcamara wrote: |
Yes - flat ramp angle? (not getting into that pointless argument)
Yes - a flat walk mode?
Yes - some torsional rigidity in the tail? or do you feel that there isn't much twist between the ankle and toe of your boot?
Both - Easy step in or better hold?
Yes - A brake (very UK thing that one) but should it be automatic or happy to flick a switch?
+/- a size or 2 for boot changes \ differences - Length adjustment? if so how long?
As long as it's durable - Prefer aluminium/plastic/steel?
Nice to have. - ability to switch walk ski mode staying in the binding?
Knee's first - Elasticity in the release or lighter weight?
Not sure what you mean ?- Very exact DIN values or happy to have a little play if performance is enhanced?
Form over function - Futuristic look or classic engineering?
Generally as ever "I want my cake and eat it" Alpine performance , light weight, safe release, good value for money.
I'd be interested to hear your take on ramp angles.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Very quickly, because i don't want to debate it but, I'm aiming for a low ramp angle in future bindings if possible, mainly because 99/100 of people who scream for no delta have ignored one or many of the following:
boot length (though ill admit that's minimal)
sole thickness
heel risers (stock or after market)
custom over stock footbed
footbed stiffening cages/cork on heels
CUFF forward lean (especially if they switch from alpine to touring boots and complain)
(ignoring changes in body position and technique)
Most pros will attest that you want a little angle in the system so giving everyone zero angle will appease the 99 along with the 1 person who will invest time and money into making sure they get the angle perfect for each pair of boots they own... myself I feel the difference between alpine and touring bindings for about an hour, it feels weird, then I get used to it, just like when i change skis, boots, snow conditions, steepness, fitness and hangover levels.
Sure i'll get shouted at by a tech soon.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Also have some shifts on order.
I was talking to the guy in the shop (who has had them to try out on his skis all winter), he reckons Salomon could have sold them this season but decided to put some extra time into making sure they were totally sorted out.
I'm only a beginner pseudo-tourer, and don't go far, so don't necessarily understand the finer points of it, but if Shifts work out, I'm not sure I see the point in having bindings like beasts, tectons, and kingpins (unless your boots wont go in an alpine binding I guess), and only the super lightweight ones if you are going a long way.
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Mon 30-04-18 4:13; edited 3 times in total
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| dulcamara wrote: |
99/100 of people who scream for no delta have ignored one or many of the following:
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That's why I think the idea of an optional 10mm POM lifter plate (that the toes screw to) is a good idea. People can use it, or not, depending on the boots that they are using.
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@dulcamara, Cheers, I'll drop you a PM later so not as to derail the debate. I'd be interested in your thoughts on my experience with Rad2s and Scarpa SLs
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@stuarth, A boring message, but thought why not. The reason for this season the shift is currently in, is the "salesman samples" season. This is when a finished/near-finished product is given to the buyers so they can decide how many they want to order for the next year and production can happen over the summer. For a company as big as Amer sports im guessing that means shipping in a bunch of parts from all over the world.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@dulcamara, but given the hype around the Shift, and given the commercial pressure I assume you are under, is there no Dynafit response to the Shift in the offing? The Kingpin must have significantly impacted Dynafit sales. I can’t believe they are sitting there praying for the alternatives to fail...
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.... no plans to get heavier.
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FAQ
