 Poster: A snowHead
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Lost the article but that was the gist of some comments from the prefecture in Le Dauphine Libere.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Surely snow chains are already mandatory?
I would bet they won't go as far as making snow tyres mandatory as it will pee off a huge amount of their customers!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
Surely snow chains are already mandatory?
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I think the rule is that they are only mandatory when the blue signs says they are. The change is is that they must be carried at all times in the car like in northern Italy.
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| Boris wrote: |
Surely snow chains are already mandatory?
I would bet they won't go as far as making snow tyres mandatory as it will pee off a huge amount of their customers! |
No it won’t
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@mooney058, No it won't what?
It won't pee off customers? Maybe not - personal view is that a lot of Dutch, Belgium, Northern France, UK will be miffed if they're told you have to have snow tyres to visit.
@johnE, AH ok, I'd kind of assumed as they may be required it was essentially compulsory to carry them.
FWIW I have winter tyres and always carry chains
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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From the Snowmagadon thread
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Sounds to me from the article @boredsurfin, cites above that they need to get the regulation finally signed into law and then it will be a legal obligation to have "equipements speciaux" meaning snow tyres OR chains OR socks. No change for me I'll be wearing snow tyres and carrying chains (though I don't expect to fit them).
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@boredsurfin, thanks, that's where I saw it too... thought worth highlighting.
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A little thread resurrection, but I was under the impression that the French were contemplating making it law to have snow tyres fitted to enter the Haute Savoie for the coming season (19\20), does anyone know if this is in fact the case? I maybe entirely mistaken?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| wills_h wrote: |
| A little thread resurrection, but I was under the impression that the French were contemplating making it law to have snow tyres fitted to enter the Haute Savoie for the coming season (19\20), does anyone know if this is in fact the case? I maybe entirely mistaken? |
You are mistaken. Read JohnEs comment above.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@wills_h, you need to have chains available and the big change is that they can have mandatory fitting anywhere in the Haute S and Savoie departments, not just at the bottom of the big hill.
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Hello. Is anyone aware if there is a final ruling on this (ie if it is actually tyres required of snow chains are going to be the rule?). As a British punter with one drive up the hill, park for a bit and then one drive back down, getting some winter tyres on the car is going to have quite bad expense-use ratio! Thanks!
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You know it makes sense.
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@Djgrahamd, if you’re driving to the Alps and heading up to resort you should have winter tyres whether it’s mandatory or not. Otherwise you’re a danger to others, never mind what you might do to yourself.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Michelin cross-climate, Falken Euroall, Bridgestone weather-control and many others come marked with "winter" legality confirmation for all European legislation, plus you really don't have to change them.
They are now at a standard of construction that they are more than suitable for most road conditions in general driving use.
Chains etc are another step on from this in more extreme environments / occasional use.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Djgrahamd, as per @ski3, well worth changing to Michelin cross-climate or similar if you are getting close to updating your current tyres. They will obviously benefit safety in the alps and also in the UK when driving sub 8c degrees. I have cross-climates and found no difference when driving driving normally in summer vs factory summer tyres.
In regards to your question - my understanding is that chains OR winter tyres will be compulsory to be carried all the time during the whole season, when in the Haute Savoie, and not just when it is snowing in order to get up the mountain as per current situation.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Didn’t realise there was an all year round but also winter level tyre so will look into that thanks. My vehicle is new to me last week with brand new tyres so unfortunately miles away from getting to their natural replacement.
Thanks for the clarification on the new regulations. Just to confirm I’m not intending to compromise on safety.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Djgrahamd, If budget and storage space allows you could have the tyres replaced now and keep the new summer tyres for the future... could also sell them assuming there is a market for new 2nd hand tyres.
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Well my Vredestein winter tyres (which I bought scarcely used from a fellow snowHead who had changed his car to one with different tyre sizes) have finally worn down and need replacement after several years good service. So this time I've decided to go the All Season route and have ordered a set of Continental All SeasonContacts which should be arriving at the tyre fitter in a few days time. They are a fairly new model (apparently Continental had previously said they wouldn't introduce an All Season tyre) but I guess the success of the Michelin Cross Climates has been an incentive to now do so. AutoExpress rated them as their number 1 All Season tyre, so I'll see how they perform, looking forward to testing them in snowy conditions. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
if you’re driving to the Alps and heading up to resort you should have winter tyres whether it’s mandatory or not. Otherwise you’re a danger to others, never mind what you might do to yourself.
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This is something of a counsel of perfection for somebody who does one holiday trip up a mountain each year. Driving carefully, and putting on snow chains as soon as there is any hint of loss of traction (or when required to do so) will not make you a danger to others. It might, of course, greatly complicate your life unless you have practiced putting snow chains on and you will certainly annoy, and possibly endanger, others if you faff around taking ages by the side of the road! There is absolutely no excuse for NOT having chains that fit and NOT being able to fit them efficiently.
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| pam w wrote: |
| ... you will certainly annoy, and possibly endanger, others if you faff around taking ages by the side of the road! |
Just do it in the middle of the road like everyone else. Also don't forget to put your headlights on full beam so that people coming the other way can't see you next to your car.
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| Djgrahamd wrote: |
| As a British punter with one drive up the hill, park for a bit and then one drive back down, getting some winter tyres on the car is going to have quite bad expense-use ratio! Thanks! |
As a British punter I assume you also use your car in the UK during the winter, and as soon as the temperature drops below ~7C winter tyres will give you better grip, so better traction and shorter breaking distances than summer tyres. Winter tyres are NOT just for driving in the snow.
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This topic has been done to death over the years and all the usual suspects will come along and tell you exactly what they have been saying for years. Another one is helmets.
In reality, especially with modern car buying habits (people will PCP or lease for 2-4 years and move on to a different car with potentially different wheel size), there is very little incentive to splash for a set of winter tyres ( potentiality with smaller rims due to lack of clearance for chains, check your user manual) and then have them swapped twice a year.
By all means buy chains - there is no argument about that. If your car doesn't have a sufficient clearance, consider externally fitting chains, they are expensive but still cheaper than new rims. Also, in addition to chains, consider socks - these are much easier to fit, work better on a lightly dusted road and you can get them for a cost of two tyre swaps. So even if they survive only one roundtrip - they are still worth it.
No tyres or chains will replace common sense and skill, so do your homework and know how to handle a slippery road.
In the end, it's your family and your responsibility, so decision is yours.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I get cross when some people suggest that not having winter tyres makes you a dangerous boy racer. As it happens have just swapped my car onto lightly used set of winters as the others were getting a bit worn.
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| Oleski wrote: |
This topic has been done to death over the years and all the usual suspects will come along and tell you exactly what they have been saying for years. Another one is helmets.
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So as well as chains and winter tyres, I have to wear a helmet? In the car? 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@Charliegolf, Head injuries are the single greatest cause of death in traffic incidents so that's not as silly as it sounds....
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Nor is trying to offer advice to people who ask for it - despite being presumably classed as a "usual suspect" by the rude person above
@Djgrahamd, my suggestion would be to drive to the Alps in deep winter on winter tyres. A few examples (i) 2 years ago in January we were on the P&O ferry Hull/ Rotterdam, they were announcing on the ship to take care in Holland on the motorways near Eindhoven, it had been raining, was now -5C, a clear day and the roads were like glass. One hour later we were on these roads and had winter tyres on, cars were all over the place, spinning off in all directions, presumably with no winters fitted, we were OK and kept on with our journey. (ii) 20 years ago near Dijon, 4am - saw about 10 cars spin off the road and into ditches aff the motorways, police closed the motorway for 4 hours whilst the sun came up and melted the ice on the road, roads were sheet ice. We had no winters on at the time, I got out of our car and fell on the ice, our car was sliding with the hand brake on due to self weight (iii) Liege 2005/6 - Christmas Day, no gritting, snowstorm and multiple pile-up (iv) 2018 Brussels - Mini overtook us at 100kph, we were driving slowly, 2km down the road it spun on the motorway and hit the barrier (v) countless times sat on the elevated section of road near Moutiers waiting for people to fit chains on their tyres, 3-4 hour delays (vi) - had to pull off the autobahn west of Stuttgart when they closed the road due to multiple pileups, having had chains on/ off 5x in 20km of autobahn, no winter tyres on our car, c.1995, pulled up at the pump for fuel and fell over on the ice
(vii) counter-arguments, for the last 10 years we always have winters fitted in UK and on way to the Alps - last 2 seasons we've driven into Warth and Lech and been the last cars in on both these occasions, front wheeldrive car, fully loaded, no chains yet fitted, traction not an issue, but 5cm of fresh snow on the roads and getting deeper, snowing heavily - then roads closed for 3-4 days on each occasion, overtook cars on hairpins with rear wheel drive spinning all over the roads.
Irrespective of what is said by those who chance it, and largely get away with it, by the law of averages you will get caught out if you go often enough, the above could have been us if we hadn't either learn't from our mistakes in the early days, and now bite the bullet every winter and swap over in November, irrespective of where we are in Europe. If France are irresponsible enough not to make winters mandatory then more fool them, I'll stick to going to Germany, Austria and CH-land where they take a more responsible attitude. I'll leave it there.............
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You know it makes sense.
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@Markymark29, I don't know what part of my post you found rude, but for the record:
1. I meant usual suspects on either side of the argument.
2. I didn't advise against winter tyres, just pointed out that they make little sense economically these days in the UK, so many people feel no incentive to buy them
3. I am a big fun of winter tyres as, where I come from, 20cm of snow overnight in the centre of capital is nothing unusual. Seeing cars with summer tyres chilling out upside down or hugging lamp posts - also nothing unusual. Equally nothing unusual are dangerous idiots feeling invincible in winter tyres.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Oleski wrote: |
| No tyres or chains will replace common sense and skill, so do your homework and know how to handle a slippery road. |
Disagree with this - there are certain winter conditions where a summer tyre just can't get grip/traction however good the driver. It's like driving with plastic wheels. Late October one year I had my winter tyres on early. (required from 1 Nov in Austria) 4 cars set off from the lights very slowly as it was icy. The road had a light camber and the other 3 cars with summers on just slide sideways into one another.
| Oleski wrote: |
| In the end, it's your family and your responsibility, so decision is yours. |
There are also other people on the road and if you don't stick to the rules then have an accident your insurance may not pay out plus you will most likely prosecuted and could be looking at a private legal case for damages. After causing a pile up on the motorway I'd hate to have the death of a few people on my conscience however much money I saved.
I know this thread refers to France but please don't anybody assume that the rules are the same in other european countries (e.g. Austria, Germany & Switzerland etc)
https://www.uniroyal-tyres.com/car/tyre-guide/winter-care/winter-tyres-mandatory
If it's not cost effective for a once a year trip then maybe change your wheels to all-seasons (with the snowflake smybol) once they wear out but fly until then.
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Poster: A snowHead
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In Austria the use of snow chains is only permitted where the road is continuously covered with snow, is it the same for France?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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These decisions (like so many others in life) are about risk assessment. If you have good chains, put them on promptly, and drive sensibly, the risk of the kind of nightmare scenario of having "people's deaths on your hands" are vanishingly low. Certainly lower than they are if you drive down the motorway to the Alps at 80 mph without stopping for regular breaks and regard speed limits as only applying to others.
And yes, of course, if you are aiming to minimise risk you would have good winter tyres, be ready to put chains on top of them, and wear a helmet (a road helmet, not a ski helmet) in your car. You would also never drive at 80 mph, for that matter. And possibly go by train. And perhaps not go on ski holidays in the first place.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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There's almost never a good place to put on chains and I think a rule that allows some cars with summer tyres and some cars with winter tyres to travel on the same road in winter is a train wreck waiting to happen.
Here's a typical senario ….
This is a main motorway in Austria from Feb 2019. This level of snow (or more) on the motorway generally occurs a few times a year through winter.
https://www.salzburg24.at/news/salzburg/flachgau/wallersee-schnee-sorgt-fuer-crash-und-sperre-auf-a1-65127730
A car with summer tyres traveling on the right hand side of the motorway (travelling away from where the picture is taken) would be losing traction whereas cars with winter tyres would be making slow progress. The only place the car with summer tyres can stop is in the tracks. It can't pull over to change the snowchains as the rest of the motorway is covered in snow. So the car stops and someone gets out to put on the chains, cars behind start trying to change lanes. The danger is that they get stuck while changing lane and block the motorway. Best case everyone is just held up, worst case there is a pile up esp. if visibilty is limited. (Car with winter tyres brakes, car with summer tyres behind plows into the back of him.) The real problems start when articulated trucks start to jack knife.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
if you drive down the motorway to the Alps at 80 mph without stopping for regular breaks and regard speed limits as only applying to others.
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Driving at 80mph would of course be perfectly legal most of the way 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| DB wrote: |
... Here's a typical senario ….
This is a main motorway in Austria from Feb 2019. This level of snow (or more) on the motorway generally occurs a few times a year through winter.
... ... The real problems start when articulated trucks start to jack knife. |
Looks a lot like BC in winter, but there you can't legally drive [on highways where conditions are like that] without M&S tyres, chains are for trucks there. It's not a big deal, really. You do see vehicles overturned, but I'm sure they have legal M&S tyres too - some people can't drive.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
There's almost never a good place to put on chains
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Actually there almost always is: Driving up to or down from Les Arcs there are clearly marked zones for putting your chains on. They are large laybys often with other people putting their chains on
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@johnE, there are plenty between Bourg D'Oisans and Serre Chevalier too, but there's always someone stopped in the middle of a narrow section of road holding up the traffic. I've never actually needed to put our chains on, although we always carry them. We've got a 4x4, but have winter tyres on now. We didn't swap over to summer ones this year as we needed a new set, and were thinking about changing the car, which never happened.
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I have a 4wd. When it gets slippery my fuel consumption almost doubles as the 4wd automatically kicks in. On winter tyres it goes back to normal. Both sets of tyres last twice as long and it costs about £60 a year to change and store them. I think economic arguments are overblown and the security of having winter tyres more than makes up for them.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I just changed the tyres on my 4x4 (an Audi TT) and went for the tyres with the best wet braking performance (A) but while I was at it I had a look on the web for winter tyres for my wife's car. I was expecting them to be poor for noise and fuel consumption but rather suprised to be unable to find any with wet weather braking performancce better than C (this is about 5m longer from 50mph). Can someone reccomend a winter or winter orientated all season tyre with the best braking performance?
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As an aside
If your car has the diamond cut alloys you are as well with a spare set of wheels for the winter anyways
Salt plays havoc with them
Two or three winters and they are often trashed
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