 Poster: A snowHead
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How do you prefer to learn to ski? These forums have frequently discussed the learning experience – but unfortunately the discussions inevitably end up in an Anglo-speaking vs. The Rest slanging match (to which I have readily contributed!)
Most people here agree that lessons are a vital part of the learning and improving experi-ence, but what is your preferred style and do you think that different schools/instructors identify your own preference? This can obviously only apply to private or small group lessons?
It now seems to be accepted that there are 3 primary (and many more secondary) learning Styles. Some of us prefer Seeing, Others Listening and others Doing.
I was well into my 30s before I recognised that there were differences in the way that we prefer to ‘learn’ and then understand my own preferences. My own preferred style is mainly ‘Doing’ with ‘Seeing’ being quite important too.
As I learn to ski this translates into my preferring to watch an instructor demonstrate and then doing it myself, with simple verbal feedback on the degree of success. I actually prefer ‘harsh’ feedback (I honestly do not like being told that everything I am doing is perfect – I usually ‘know’ otherwise!). Conversely my skiing partner prefers to have all the biomechanics and physical inputs explained in miniscule detail with lots of supportive comments from the instructor. Needless to say our ‘favourite’ instructors are different.
So … Preferred Style? Do instructors recognise this? Does it matter in a skiing context? Do the educationalists here think it’s irrelevant?
Interested in Others Views ..
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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From an educational point of view, it makes a big difference. it is mooted as one of the main reasons why boys underachieve in schools, and girls often do well.....as many boys learn by "doing", yet the classroom environment has traditionally been "hearing" with occasional "seeing".
My preferred learning style is "seeing". Therefore an instructor who spends hours talking to me about what and why, loses me. I'd much rather he gave me a book to read, or a demonstration.
On a different note (not sure how it links to skiing), in general, I struggle to grasp concepts without being given specific examples. Not sure if this is part of my learning style, or a different aspect of understanding ideas.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I prefer to have a reasonable understanding of what I'm trying to acheive from a technical point of view before attempting to do things myself (so I like instructors who are technically very proficient themselves and are able to explain in detail what is going on). I then like lots of feedback, including photo and video, as I try to develop that technique myself. Watching an instructor ski and then trying to emulate that is not a preferred learning style for me. The feedback part is the most important, which I why I like having week-long classes rather than more intensive private lessons. There is more time for observation and feedback as my technique develops, and the instructor can talk to me about how my technique has changed over the week.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I like to see and do and then understand what I'm trying to acheive - i.e. why I'm doing int and what it's supposed to do, so I can see where I'm going wrong and do it right
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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1) Listen to instructor telling me to bend knees and plant pole
2) follow instructor down hill trying to bend knees and plant pole when he does while not falling over or skiing into him
3) be observed by instructor failing to correctly coordinate bending of knees and planting of pole
repeat until knackered 
Don't you just love skiing lessons !
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Elizabeth B, So you obviously exhibit some male tendencies in your approach to learning ! Not my specialism - but if you really want to understand your Left/Right Brian tendencies ( and your PERCEIVED inability to grab concepts) then some good psychometric testing is very enlightening ... if for no other reason than it shows that we all have different natural skill-sets. Way beyond my knowledge, but I would imagine that it does have some impact on your skiing - I would guess that some of the more 'futuristic/technical' stuff on here you would see as 'cowdoo'.
rob@rar.org.uk, Totally different to me ! . It was actually PG's recent questions/observations that got me thinking about the subject ( because my recognising vastly superior skills in an instructor is important to me ) I have never had any video feedback - rather stupid of me as I know it would be very extremely for me and the way that I learn . Conversely - as long as an instructor is able to say Merde or Bon , I am totally happy!
nbt, Yep , a bit like me.
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eEvans, I've done numerous psychometric type tests....I love them.
Myers-Briggs was a revelation to me, because I actually fitted nicely into one of their boxes. Having spent ages thinking that I was different to EVERYONE else, it was nice to know that I'm not!!
I'm definitely of the "left-brain" persuasion, being strongly analytical in my approach (I just love maths!)...but work in (and am good at) a job that is far more people orientated.
Ultimately, the goal for most people must be to be able to adapt to any circumstances.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I'm with rob. Technical explanation, followed by feedback, video is best (if rather horrifying). Id prefer supportive instructors to those who 'tell it like it is'., it's just too depressing to have all your flaws pointed out at once... However I'm also up for lots of 'copy me' - I don't learn so well from it, but in a big group it's more fun  aj xx
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| eEvans wrote: |
| ( because my recognising vastly superior skills in an instructor is important to me ) |
It's important for me as well, and not just in skiing. No matter what I'm being taught, I hope/expect the teacher to be considerably more than just one page ahead of me in whatever textbook we're following. That's one of the reasons why I think a test of high level technical capacity is essential for a ski instructor, whether it be the Eurotest or something else.
Video feedback is incredibly useful, although almost always deeply depressing. Virtually all the skiers I've been in class with have concluded they have an unrealistic mental image of how they ski once they have looked at some video of themselves.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Video feedback is definitely one of the most valuable things I've ever had as part of the learning experience. It really highlights the difference between what you think you are doing i.e. - following exactly what your instructor is telling you, flowing gracefully down the slope and the reality, which for me was woodenly jerking along with a broom stuffed up my backside, bolt upright. A very depressing thing to see, but very useful...
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| sazza42 wrote: |
| .... woodenly jerking along with a broom stuffed up my backside... |
Not in the Lib Dems are you? 
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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eEvans,
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No I've never followed a lady down a slope watching her bottom, well never with a video camera anyway
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The instructor I had for my very first lessons, actually told me to watch her bum on the way down the mountain (OK, me and the rest of the group!). It was her way of getting us newbies to look beyond our boots/ ski tips and to get our heads up. It could be one of the reasons I caught the bug!
The same instructor also got us on to blades for our penultimate lesson as a tool to try and get us to feel that we were on an edge and to try and carve, rather than slide a turn. I thought that the blades were a great aide, and I think were very influential in me really paying genuine attention to my technique. I still enjoy a day or two on blades now (although, I'm also learning to snowboard this year, so my opinion will not be considered valid by a few on here  ).
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Poster: A snowHead
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A friend of mine recently joined us on a hol and he hadn't skied with us for 10yrs. After day 2 he had embraced visually what the new school style was just by watching very good skiers and even though it took him longer to actually do it he was getting to grips with it. I got him on a pair on Elans Magfires which he didn't like on the first day and went for Excreams....!! which were more forgiving of his 10 years absence.
One thing that did strike me was that it is ok talking about a carved turn but unless you know what it is trying to achieve then you might not know the difference. That is until you have been rocketed out of the turn at quite a lick. And in his instance you would still need someone to tell you who knows...or you feel it...and then aaaahhhhhh...!!!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
or you feel it...and then aaaahhhhhh...!!!
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I remember this on old skinny skis. I didn't manage to really carve that many turns but I can still remember a few specific turns when it clicked on 200cm skis - smooth, fast, tightening line as I dropped my hip right inside the turn, looking back to see real railroad tracks. So that's what carving is!
Getting back to the point of the post, I find that I like:
1. thorough technical explanation (can be reading from a book) telling me what I am trying to do and WHY
2. proper demonstration and/or skiing with better skiers
3. trial an error - lots of the time I can just tell when its right but also
4. feed back - can be from an accomplished skier watching me for things I have asked them to check on, video is GREAT
I don't need instructors for 1 but they can be very valuable for 2 and 4. I too want my instructor to wow me with their skiing - I want them to inspire me as well as help me work on technique.
J
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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just on the video point, I did a day heliskiing with Whistler heliski and they filmed us a bit as a souvenier. I wasn't being coached, I wasn't working on specific things but I found the video amazingly helpful - I was able to self diagnose problems and reinforce stregths "I actually do that really well - keep doing it/do it even more. That's horrible - stop it!"
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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having taught skiing full time for seven years i'm just now beginning to realize how important this is. one of the difficulties IS having, for instance, a group of five or so folks and realizing how different we all learn.
i'll provide a quick anecdote about a recent lesson. i taught a wonderful woman from ireland. for 7/8's of the first day......she wasn't getting it. why? lousy instructor in the end. i finally said to her. let's pretend we're kids and i want you to chase me on skiis. she followed....she flowed, she moved, she giggled, she became child like.
i learned the lesson
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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did she catch you ?
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Most of us that started when we were wee simply pointed them down. Turns were not on my agenda. To stop, I just fell down. I suppose another 50 kg changes the rules. The technical part came later and I learned by watching mostly. Little ones will do that you know. I remember my Mum told me I wouldn't be able to come on ski holiday unless I went into lessons. At age nine, I made a few turns for the instructor and he put me in the advanced group with all grown-ups. It was boring because a few of them shouldn't have been in the class, but the instructor put me under his wing and I learned a thing or two. I started racing after that, and that is when I really learned to ski. I don't think one can ever be a great skier unless they have raced. It's really the essence of bending and carving the ski.
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