^ genuine question : did you actually look at any of those sites
they are the top 3 hits on google for various combinations of "ski fort william" etc
plenty mention of Nevis Range as a ski / MTB / tourist attraction.
I think you missed his point. He wasn't saying there were no mentions of skiing anywhere on the web but specifically that there is very little on the Fort William tourist website where you might have expected to find quite a big splash.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Haggis_Trap wrote:
foxtrotzulu wrote:
However, a comparison is often inevitable because for most of us there are alternative ski resorts and alternative ways to spend your time/money
foxtrotzulu wrote:
dode wrote:
@foxtrotzulu, for that weekend you can leave Gatwick at 18:55, arrive Inverness 20:35 for £32.49. Leave Inverness 06:45 on monday to arrive in Gatwick at 08:20 for £9.49.
Bargain.
Absolutely, although the point still remains that going to Aviemore doesn't get you any more time on the slopes (from London) than going to the Alps.
Yip - London is about as far from mountains as you can be in Europe
Now if I lived in the south of England I would ski in the alps too.
I would also likely ski many fewer days than I currently enjoy AND need to get on a plane everytime I did it.
London is roughly equidistant from Fort William and Morzine.
Clearly it would be utterly futile for Scottish ski resorts to market themselves to skiers living that far away.
The core market for Scottish resorts is the ~5 million people living in Scotland and ~10 million in north of England.
These people are all within day / weekend trip-able distance and can take advantage whenever conditions turn good.
With the internet / modern weather forecasts and web cams it has never been easier to plan a Scottish ski trip.
Scottish snowsports has made a real comeback over last decade : with new investment at all the resorts (cairngorm / natural retreats politics aside).
I agree with you 100% (that makes a pleasant change). However, I remember you being fairly critical/outraged when I pointed out a few months ago that I had never skiied in Scotland and wasn't very likely to do so either. I think you can now see where I'm coming from.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
foxtrotzulu wrote:
Haggis_Trap wrote:
^ genuine question : did you actually look at any of those sites
they are the top 3 hits on google for various combinations of "ski fort william" etc
plenty mention of Nevis Range as a ski / MTB / tourist attraction.
I think you missed his point. He wasn't saying there were no mentions of skiing anywhere on the web but specifically that there is very little on the Fort William tourist website where you might have expected to find quite a big splash.
uhhhhm : all 3 link provided do have clear links to the fact their is skiing near Fort William.
however (rather obviously...) the lift operators own web site (top hit on google for "ski fort william") is likely the one with the most information.
.... it ain't rocket science
@Haggis_Trap, but in fairness, if you didn't know there was skiing locally, you aren't exactly being led to it...
That is a little unfair too : remember Fort William is a year round destination for biking, hiking, sailing, tourism, golf, whisky, west highland way etc.
The general fort william accommodation web site is also aimed at those people. No one goes to Meribel and then discovers you can ski there afterwards
Though as ever marketing needs to be aimed at your core market (primarily day trippers from central belt of Scotland).
Ski Scotland have done well on this recently : for example getting Scottish ski reports included with the BBC Scotland weather after the 6 o'clock news on a Friday.
Funnily the posters complaining about poor marketing are the same ones who (.... by their own admission) would likely never ski in Scotland anyway
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@Little Martin, Great videos!
After all it is free
After all it is free
foxtrotzulu wrote:
@JoyZipper,
Quote:
There speaks a man who has never been up the Scottish hills in winter !!!
I can't think of one Munro/Corbett that has trees up top.
I wonder why that could be.............
........answers on a postcard
That's actually quite an interesting question. Scotland has one of the lowest tree lines in the world and the reason is not what I expected. It has nothing to do with cold winters, poor soil, or the Romans chopping them down. The problem is that the maritime climate means the summers are too cool above 1600ft to sustain much tree growth. In parts of Norway the tree line is below sea level!
The overpopulation of red deer play a large part in the low tree line. Glenfeshie is an interesting example of an area where the deer population is being quite positively managed (i.e. managed for biodiversity and aggressively culled rather than managed for sport) and the treeline is heading higher and higher.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
foxtrotzulu wrote:
Haggis_Trap wrote:
^ genuine question : did you actually look at any of those sites
they are the top 3 hits on google for various combinations of "ski fort william" etc
plenty mention of Nevis Range as a ski / MTB / tourist attraction.
I think you missed his point. He wasn't saying there were no mentions of skiing anywhere on the web but specifically that there is very little on the Fort William tourist website where you might have expected to find quite a big splash.
I thought I must not have been clear enough in what I was saying but at least someone has got the gist so I dont feel my contribution was quite so imperceptible. Yes, was highlight that fact that it not a big thing on the tourist website, either by choice or due to some other issue. I am not saying the information isnt out there somewhere but I had hoped it would be a bigger deal on that site (which is listed as the tourism site on www.skiresort.info where I like to start my research from).
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Inboard wrote:
foxtrotzulu wrote:
@JoyZipper,
Quote:
There speaks a man who has never been up the Scottish hills in winter !!!
I can't think of one Munro/Corbett that has trees up top.
I wonder why that could be.............
........answers on a postcard
That's actually quite an interesting question. Scotland has one of the lowest tree lines in the world and the reason is not what I expected. It has nothing to do with cold winters, poor soil, or the Romans chopping them down. The problem is that the maritime climate means the summers are too cool above 1600ft to sustain much tree growth. In parts of Norway the tree line is below sea level!
The overpopulation of red deer play a large part in the low tree line. Glenfeshie is an interesting example of an area where the deer population is being quite positively managed (i.e. managed for biodiversity and aggressively culled rather than managed for sport) and the treeline is heading higher and higher.
Funnily enough NZ has the same issue with a low tree line in the mountains. And as as much as the forestry people have tried they could not get trees to take higher up than nature intended.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
There definately is a demand for some kind of campervan car share club, where you pick it up near a Scottish airport and return it. The problem I can forsee with such a scheme, is that everyone would want it at the same time. There would need to be a priority scheme in place, where members who had the highest priority could book it at short notice.
I hired a car in Canada from Rent a Wreck. It was a 100,000 km Ford Escort. It served the purpose for 2 weeks in Canadian Rockies (Jasper, Banff, Whistler etc).
Can you imagine such a club, and how it would work?
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
ster wrote:
Funnily enough NZ has the same issue with a low tree line in the mountains.
Not low enough! That bush takes some whacking, especially with skis on your pack...
Seriously, though (and apologies for thread-drift) - is NZ suffering from deforestation on the mountains? Is it an issue in both N & S islands, or just one? Wasn't struck by that in S island, but didn't see N at all.
cheers
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
I had one weekend at Whakapapa from Auckland. It cost around £100 and included transport from Auckland, accomodation near Whakapapa, ski, boot, gloves, sallopettes, and goggle hire and food. I guess the money was made because people bought alcohol in the evening after skiing. I do not understand how it was economic.
It was very good though, and I enjoyed the skiing.
Not a deforestation issue, if anything I think the industry would like to have the tree line higher as its a big commercial concern. Its just the way it is so no skiing in the trees which makes it very susceptible to bad weather. Definitely the case in NI and I think its both islands as cannot recall seeing any pix of trees up in skiing areas in SI where I have only been to Mt Hutt but someone more expert may correct me.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Many times I have considered buying and converting a rusty old van into my own personal Scottish Ski Resort Transfer Service. Room on board for a cosy bunk / stove / ski locker. I think being mobile would be a great way to ski Scotland and Northern England. Is there much of a camper scene at any of the Scottish resorts?
I just have to persuade the missus that it's a good idea to have such a monster parked on the flood plains of Shropshire for 90% of the year. I hate camping, but I love skiing.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@letsgetpiste, I've used the electric hookups at Glencoe with my campervan. Showers, toilets and drying room included. I think there are about 10. There are some a Glenshee too. Not sure about anywhere else but there's nothing to stop you parking up somewhere nearby if you've got a leisure battery and can get by without the electric.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
foxtrotzulu wrote:
@JoyZipper,
Quote:
There speaks a man who has never been up the Scottish hills in winter !!!
I can't think of one Munro/Corbett that has trees up top.
I wonder why that could be.............
........answers on a postcard
That's actually quite an interesting question. Scotland has one of the lowest tree lines in the world and the reason is not what I expected. It has nothing to do with cold winters, poor soil, or the Romans chopping them down. The problem is that the maritime climate means the summers are too cool above 1600ft to sustain much tree growth. In parts of Norway the tree line is below sea level!
Scots pine and others will grow up to ~1200m in Scotland.
Just needs skill and will to get every Scottish ski station reforested.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@swiftoid, thanks for the info! One can get by without many things for short periods but it's really good to know that Glencoe has that kind of facility available!
Is there much of a camper scene at any of the Scottish resorts? .
Don't know if it's still allowed (suspect not) but it used to be called the Cairngorm mountain car park and the back of a Trannie/Luton...
Too blinking cold for me now, I reckon - and I do like a nice muscle-relaxing bath after a good day on the hills/slopes - though the camper van idea has often appealed for exactly the same reason.
Getting last minute and cheap accommodation is, for me, the main issue stopping me hacking up and down to Scotland as often as I'd like when the weather looks as if it'll be playing ball (with due reference to even then it'll still turn out to be: too windy, too snowy, too drifty, too sunny or too blinking busy of huge long lift queues and broken funiculars).
Oh, and now the fact that virtually the whole drive once off motorway is restricted to 50mph (at least, heading on the East side).
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@Grizzler, there's still a fair few folk sleeping in vans at the Cairngorm car park - mixture of climbers and skiers, I guess
There might _just_ be some Cairngorm/ Glenshee (touring) sliding in over the weekend, looking at the forecast
letsgetpiste To add to the Glencoe camping info: Use of their camping facilities (site, showers, toilets) is free during the ski season, which is brilliant. We've done it (using a tent in spring) and it was great. The (licensed ) cafe is open until mid evening for meals too.
We've camped using the tent and also Hotel Mondeo in Cairngorm (Corrie Cas) car park too. In doing so, even in snow and sub-zero temperatures, we've never been the only ones camping overnight. It's quite popular.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
mountainaddict wrote:
letsgetpiste To add to the Glencoe camping info: Use of their camping facilities (site, showers, toilets) is free during the ski season, which is brilliant. We've done it (using a tent in spring) and it was great. The (licensed ) cafe is open until mid evening for meals too.
Not according to their website it isn't. £6 per adult per night (it's £15 per night for a campervan/motorhome electric hookup).
After all it is free
After all it is free
Whitegold wrote:
Scots pine and others will grow up to ~1200m in Scotland.
Just needs skill and will to get every Scottish ski station reforested.
errr : naw
wind speeds on the summit of Cairngorm at that altitude are frequently >100mph during winter.
This thread demonstrates well that skiing is clearly one of the few products that markets itself
People love talking about it / posting photos on social media when they have had a good day etc.
As example this new video just appeared on my facebook feed.
Enjoy!
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@swiftoid,
That's probably because there's no skiing at the moment. Glencoe has offered free camping for (at least) the past 2 seasons, when the lifts are open for skiing.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Does any one know about taking skis on the sleeper trains, I have seen mention of larger suitcases go free in the guard van but bikes are best to be booked on due to limited space but still gratis. Do skis fall into large luggage therefore gratis and no need to book or like bikes, still free but need to be booked due to limited space?
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@ster, there's space under the bottom bunk or alongside the wall - depends how long your skis are . Travelled with skis in either two single bags or a big double padded roller bag, and it all fits albeit a little cramped with kit bags etc too. But certainly feasible.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Haggis_Trap wrote:
Whitegold wrote:
Scots pine and others will grow up to ~1200m in Scotland.
Just needs skill and will to get every Scottish ski station reforested.
errr : naw
wind speeds on the summit of Cairngorm at that altitude are frequently >100mph during winter.
This is what I was alluding to
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Social media does it for me: Chase the last min skiers, of which many of us are. The posts of "Huge pow dump happening, clear skies thereafter" gets me up from Dorset!
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Bergmeister wrote:
@swiftoid,
That's probably because there's no skiing at the moment. Glencoe has offered free camping for (at least) the past 2 seasons, when the lifts are open for skiing.
Oh OK. I know there's no skiing just now but I went to http://www.glencoemountain.co.uk/book-accommodation/ and looked at a pitch in mid February and they say it is £12 for two adults for one night at the moment. I guess they must offer free deals later on.
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Tue 1-11-16 22:13; edited 1 time in total
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Two markets in my view, with different requirements.
1- short visits/day trippers, who live in driving distance and book last minute when the weather is decent.
Main improvements needed here are aimed at maximising time and enjoyment on the slopes. So better lift infrastructure, faster ski hire, efficient arrival management, good piste grooming, efficient and decent eating options. And once the infrastructure can cope, better marketing when conditions are good (no use pulling in thousands of punters for a terrible experience waiting in lift queues, as is the norm at cairngorm).
2 - longer visits, typically booked in advance.
Scotland will never be the Alps and the weather is just too variable to attract the same kind of ski visitor. So I think Scottish areas trying to attract this market need to be aiming at those looking for a different kind of holiday, perhaps with mixed activities (e.g. Fort William is well placed for two ski destinations, and two indoor climbing destinations. It has a decent public swimming pool and ten-pin bowling. If they could add a few other bad weather activities and entertainment, like a cinema, then you have the basis for a decent winter break, whatever the weather. Then it's up to the tourist board to promote all those activities.
From the ski centre's perspective, snow-making is important in order to maximise the possible ski days and increase the confidence of those booking in advance that they will have snow to ski on.
Glenshee and the Lecht probably need to focus more on group 1 due to lack of a nearby population centre with good tourist options. Nevis and cairngorm, and to some extent Glencoe, can aim for both.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
swiftoid wrote:
Bergmeister wrote:
@swiftoid,
That's probably because there's no skiing at the moment. Glencoe has offered free camping for (at least) the past 2 seasons, when the lifts are open for skiing.
Oh OK. I know there's no skiing at the just now but I went to http://www.glencoemountain.co.uk/book-accommodation/ and looked at a pitch in mid February and they say it is £12 for two adults for one night at the moment. I guess they must offer free deals later on.
Its free to camp/motorhome in the car park you'll need to find the flat spots!, they also have (flat) pitches with hookup that are about £12 that do get booked up
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Haggis_Trap wrote:
Whitegold wrote:
Scots pine and others will grow up to ~1200m in Scotland.
Just needs skill and will to get every Scottish ski station reforested.
errr : naw
wind speeds on the summit of Cairngorm at that altitude are frequently >100mph during winter.
This thread demonstrates well that skiing is clearly one of the few products that markets itself
People love talking about it / posting photos on social media when they have had a good day etc.
As example this new video just appeared on my facebook feed.
Enjoy!
Makes me want to reassess my thoughts on Scottish Skiing
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
A few issues raised to respond to.
Yes, if you live in the south and you're only going on one ski trip per season, you'd clearly be bonkers to risk a week in Scotland.
It's an extra trip (on top of a holiday somewhere snow-sure), a fun weekend in the mountains with some good skiing thrown in if you're lucky.
There's one thing in particular that makes the trip up from London particularly enticing, and that is... The Caledonian Sleeper!
If you had to fly or drive to the Scottish resorts from the south, I don't think I'd bother. If you're going to put up with all the hassles of flying (getting to airport, through security, checking in stuff or cramming things into a cabin bag, usual concerns about terrorism/suicidal pilots/missing the flight/lost luggage etc.) you might as well jump on a plane to the Alps.
It's hard to exaggerate how enjoyable catching the sleeper train up from London is. The holiday starts at 8:30pm when you get on the train at Euston. Stick your stuff in your cabin then head to the restaurant bar for several hours of eating/drinking/card playing/Travel Scrabble etc. It's a hoot. A hotel on wheels! And an amazing feeling to wake up in the morning in the Scottish mountains, and have your breakfast as the beautiful snowy wilderness drifts pass your window. The journey is a real highlight of the trip and you can never really say that about the flight and transfers to the Alps, even if you quite enjoy flying (as I do).
Someone compared sleeper train costs with flights to Geneva. One thing you didn't factor in was your extra night's hotel in the resort that you'd need which is bound to be at least £50, possibly nearer £100 so the sleeper train to Scotland does actually compete pretty well on cost even at £160 for a return.
@Inboard, Cheers for the info! They are not as tall as me so if I fit into the bunk then they should fit underneath.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
For anyone tempted to drive from the SW - a word of warning. I drove Bristol to Edinburgh (return) on the weekend and the M5, M6 and M74 extensive roadworks meant a 10 HR journey each way! Add the highlands to that and you are talking circa 15 hrs. I'd love to ski Scotland and will do, but I'm definitely flying - cheap options to Glasgow and Inverness.
Really surprised anyone finds difficulty getting last minute accommodation. I go at least 2 weekends a year, never book earlier than Thursday, never had any difficulties. Sometimes paid a bit more than I really wanted in Fort William but there is tons of choice. The poor info on the general tourist website is probably because there are so many other local activities, winter is off season and the main business in summer is tourists. Beds at every price from £10 to £500 a night. On my last visit, in April, we stayed somewhere beautiful, quiet, warm, clean and friendly. 3 pubs in walking distance: sauna, en suite shower, cooking facilities and drying room. £20 each per night for a twin room. A Saturday night, booked on Friday, even had a choice of rooms. Why would you camp?
The dismissive mention of Glencoe is because it is in Argyllshire rather than Lochaber, parochialism at its best! The county border problem is rumoured to cause significant problems at Glenshee too with Angus (where most of the traffic comes from, and most of the parking is) not giving road clearing quite the same priority as Aberdeenshire (where the ski centre is).
Of course, the only photo of a massive queue in this thread is at Cairngorm. They are not common elsewhere. It's such a pity the lift companies have spent 30 years messing up the skiing there. Aviemore has even more accommodation options and better pubs.
Highland_instinct on winterhighland wrote a thesis on skiing in trees in Scotland and thought it was feasible, extending the ski area downward at Cairngorm. There was an attempt at a tree-lined ski area near Braemar in the 60s, failed then but could work now with better technology. He occasionally posts here as firstracks. He did a whole lot of research into the history of the ski areas and posted some of it over on the winterhighland forums, where you will also find one of the best efforts at forecasting, presented nightly in an easily digestible style with just the odd rough edge. Of course there's plenty of us that you'll recognise from Snowheads waffling on too. He made a great film too.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Just renewed my Nevis season pass. £245 (including the discount for having one last year). Price for a Cairngorm pass right now, £442.
After all it is free
After all it is free
Deedee wrote:
Just renewed my Nevis season pass. £245 (including the discount for having one last year). Price for a Cairngorm pass right now, £442.
Blimey! £442 is much more expensive than I would have imagined.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@Haggis_Trap, Not that it makes any difference, but why do you think it's the winds as opposed to the reason I put forward. I.e. cool summers.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Its a combination I think. Cool Sumners mean low growth. Deer use saplings as scratching poles or strip the bark. The wind causes them to put a Lot of their growing energy into strengthening their roots and trunk to withstand it. There are trees on cgm summit but they are tiny. They will probably succumb to the deer or be uprooted.
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
