 Poster: A snowHead
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There's something really magical about skiing in the UK. Just the fact that you can actually do it is impressive enough.
If memory serves, in the late 90s/ early 2000s, there were a number of very mild (or relatively snowless) winters, and it looked like Scottish skiing might become a thing of the past. But the last five seasons have seen some of the best conditions since the 1980s (I think) and, with any luck, this trend may continue.
But what can be done to make Scottish skiing more appealing/successful?
I went to Glen Coe at the end of last winter and there were a few obvious things I'd like to have seen.
- Simple 'Ski Scotland' merchandise - I'd love to have bought a hat or a t-shirt (or whatever) but there was nothing at the centre itself or in Fort William
- Marketing nearby-resorts together. I stayed at Fort William (FW) which is within fairly easy reach of Nevis Range (15 mins) and Glen Coe (45 mins). Marketing FW as a dual resort 'hub' would surely be appealing
- Better bus links (and combined bus+ lift pass tickets). There were buses from FW to Glen Coe but it was quite hard to find out about, and not actively promoted as a means of reaching the ski centre. But the bus ride was fantastic, along the banks of the loch and then through the glen itself. The bus driver was so unused to dropping off skiers that he went sailing past the Glen Coe bus stop (despite me asking him when I got on if he was going there) and dropped me a few hundred metres further on, on a busy high speed road with no pavements.
- Promote alternatives to skiing for bad weather days or non-skiing friends. I took the West Highland train line to Mallaig one day - arguably Britain's most scenic train ride. A really enjoyable trip. You could also take boat trips along the loch.
- Promote the fact that the sleeper train to FW and Aviemore actually gives you more time on the slopes than a similar trip to the Alps, after a full day's work on a Friday, for example. The first flight from Gatwick won't get you to the Alpine airport til 10, and you'll struggle to ski before midday. With the sleeper train to Aviemore, you could be on the slopes by 9.
- the ease of communicating in your own language, familiar shoe sizes at the rental place, no need to continuously be converting from euros to pounds for food/drinks/lift passes etc.
- the appeal of Scottish culture/food/hospitality etc.
- if the pound stays weak, it will be (relatively) cheaper to ski in Scotland this winter c/w the Euro Zone.
- Right, that will do for now!
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Tue 1-11-16 9:35; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I can leave my house near Edinburgh (and the far side of Edinburgh at that) at 07:00 and be skiing at 10:00 - including a stop to hire skis.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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One of my best ever skiing days was at Glenshee. But despite my extremely fond memories of that day, the overriding image of Scottish skiing in my mind is of horizontal sleet, clag, poor visibility and bone numbing cold.
I am lucky enough to be within reach of Scottish skiing and can decide at short notice to take a day trip.
From my perspective, Scottish skiing in February 2017 is not something that I want to commit myself to in November 2016.
You can't change the weather and so I reckon the most effective thing that can be done would be to promote alternatives to skiing should the weather not be conducive to skiing. That way you might attract people prepared to give it a go in the knowledge that if skiing is less attractive, there are other things to do.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Fair points, really. When I went to Glen Coe last season I booked it two days beforehand, so with a pretty reliable weather and snow forecast.
Yes, conditions can be awful, and you might not get to ski at all. I'm London based and when I've taken friends up before, I present it as an adventurous weekend in the Scottish mountains, hopefully/probably with skiing. Catching the sleeper train from London is half the fun.
I've done it 4 times now, and we've always managed to ski (although yet to have a blue sky + fresh snow day).
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Neil Neige, there is definately an issue here. However, the issue is probably due to size and scale. When it snows, and the weather is good, all resorts are packed with cars, and too many people come. When the weather is not good, one man and his dog take the lifts up (I have a photo of this somewhere - a drag lift with one man and his dog on it at Glenshee)
Mostly the weather is bad. Spending lots of money marketing something, is only useful if it pays off it terms of increased useage or higher lift pass fees. If it is not economic to market something which cannot be accessed easily, does not make sense.
Glen Coe is privately owned. The other ski resorts in Scotland are run by the Scottish Government. (I am not sure about the Lecht as it seems too small to be Government run)
I am sure buses run, but again it is an economic argument. In ski resorts, the lift pass pays for buses. In Scotland, you take Shank's pony and the lift pass is just as expensive. Buses would run if they made money on it. They do not, and so people drive.
I have though about whether it would be economic to market skiing in Scotland, and given the number of times a year I ski here, I would say probably not. You cannot predict when that good day would come, so marketing it would have to be realistic and show the realism of regular buses full of beginner skiers in high wind, white out days, with poorly pisted and signposted pistes.
I suppose on bad days, you could take all the beginners to a snowdome in Glasgow. Intermediates could spend a day in a sauna and jaccuzi. Experts could go down the pub.
It just would not make economic sense though, for a true skier to do anything more than have a taster here.
Hiring a small campervan for a weekend might make more sense. You could also visit the Ski-scotland.co.uk website. Seems a low cost way of marketing. Unfortunately, again you might get better information from the individual resort websites. It is either a competition issue, or a communication issue.
Lets face it, who would wear a ski-scotland merchandise? A sado-masochist?
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You obviously don't ski here much bigtipper all of the resorts are privately owned.... Cairngorm has had a bunch of public cash but its still not run by the government. As for the weather always being bad... Load of pish
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For what it is worth, I think social media is the way forward... make sure that the profile is high and when good snow is forecast news gets out quickly. Align that with accommodation providers. I'd go at short notice, if I had a few days warning.
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@geeo, Where would your recommend I keep an eye on? I'd describe myself as advanced intermediate. 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Yes indeed. I had a great week in Scotland some years ago. two days hill walking including the Aonach Eagach, two days Winter climbing in Glencoe and two days skiing at Glencoe.
I think the best thing Scotland can do is to promote alternative activities, or rather promote skiing as one of several activities available
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Facebook and winterhighland for up to date info. No doubt its not as certain as the alps to get good/some/any skiing but when its available and you live within 1-5 hours well what more do you want as a skier. Some folk just prefer moaning about what they can't get rather than enjoying what they can 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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The people who ski the most in Scotland @geeo, are people who are local to a ski resort and purchase annual discounted lift passes which are only available to locals. Whilst their opinion is relevant to the argument, marketing Glencoe to someone who lives near Glenshee is not going to make a jot of difference.
Aviemore has a train station, but does it take people up to the ski slopes in a bus if you have a lift pass? If it does, this is not advertised anywhere. (for those who do not know the ski slopes are 5 miles from Aviemore)
For me Aviemore is too far, and too windy, and compared to the others is not even marginally better (despite the furnicular). The only reason I would go there, is for variety if I had a campervan and wanted to taste all resorts in one long weekend.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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None of the resorts have a local population big enough to support them,the majority come from the lowlands .Glasgow and Edinburgh.You know where all the people actually live..cairngorm has Inverness but still not enough. Its clear you know nowt about this
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But don't let that stop you bringing it down. Its clearly not up to your standards 
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
| It just would not make economic sense for a true skier to do anything more than have a taster here.... |
Eh??
1. I have no idea what the reference to economic sense is about. We are 250-300 miles from the ski areas but can get there and back for the cost of less than a tank of diesel. So of course it makes economic sense.
2. Having skied for about 30 years, and visited scores of resorts in about 15 countries, I'd certainly count myself as a true skier. I enjoy Scotland as much as I enjoy anywhere - and to suggest it's got nothing to offer advanced skiers is just nonsense. I've skied some amazing steeps/off piste at Nevis Range, Glencoe and Cairngorm - in fact as steep as anything I've skied worldwide. And speaking of worldwide, the Flypaper at Glencoe is about as steep as anything I've skied on piste worldwide - the word 'challenging' just doesn't do it justice.
Yes the weather can be variable and unpredictable but that's UK mountains for you. But to suggest it's always bad is just plain wrong. We just don't go if the forecast (ie wind in particular) is bad - but still manage about 10 weekend trips each season.
And I for one, would definitely wear Scottish Ski Area clobber! (Though not from Cairngorm bearing the ridiculous words 'Natural Retreats'....)
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I do not want anyone marketing glencoe. It's mine, you'd hate it, stay away! 
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Poster: A snowHead
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Also its never windy at Glencoe. Only aviemore is windy 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Bigtipper wrote: |
@Neil Neige, there is definately an issue here. However, the issue is probably due to size and scale. When it snows, and the weather is good, all resorts are packed with cars, and too many people come. When the weather is not good, one man and his dog take the lifts up (I have a photo of this somewhere - a drag lift with one man and his dog on it at Glenshee)
Mostly the weather is bad. Spending lots of money marketing something, is only useful if it pays off it terms of increased useage or higher lift pass fees. If it is not economic to market something which cannot be accessed easily, does not make sense.
Glen Coe is privately owned. The other ski resorts in Scotland are run by the Scottish Government. (I am not sure about the Lecht as it seems too small to be Government run)
I am sure buses run, but again it is an economic argument. In ski resorts, the lift pass pays for buses. In Scotland, you take Shank's pony and the lift pass is just as expensive. Buses would run if they made money on it. |
Yes, buses do run as I mentioned in my post. From Fort William to Glen Coe about every two hours. It's a spectacular journey and makes FW an ideal place to stay as there's lots of other stuff happening there too. But there's no concept of the bus being used to get to the skiing. It's hard to find out about, and the bus driver (well my bus driver) doesn't even think to stop at the ski centre bus stop unless you tell him as the bus approaches, and I'd never been there before! The bus continues to Glasgow in the other direction and stops at Glasgow Airport, and that's a nice journey too (along Loch Lomond etc). So, this winter I'll suggest the sleeper train to Fort W. 2 or 3 days up there skiing at either Nevis or Coe, and then fly home from Glasgow.
A great w/e in the Scottish mountains whatever happens. I'm guessing that you have something like a 60% chance of a Scottish resort actually being open between early Jan and late March, and perhaps a 30% chance of v good weather/snow...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| mountainaddict wrote: |
| Quote: |
| It just would not make economic sense for a true skier to do anything more than have a taster here.... |
Eh??
1. I have no idea what the reference to economic sense is about. We are 250-300 miles from the ski areas but can get there and back for the cost of less than a tank of diesel. So of course it makes economic sense.
2. Having skied for about 30 years, and visited scores of resorts in about 15 countries, I'd certainly count myself as a true skier. I enjoy Scotland as much as I enjoy anywhere - and to suggest it's got nothing to offer advanced skiers is just nonsense. I've skied some amazing steeps/off piste at Nevis Range, Glencoe and Cairngorm - in fact as steep as anything I've skied worldwide. And speaking of worldwide, the Flypaper at Glencoe is about as steep as anything I've skied on piste worldwide - the word 'challenging' just doesn't do it justice.
Yes the weather can be variable and unpredictable but that's UK mountains for you. But to suggest it's always bad is just plain wrong. We just don't go if the forecast (ie wind in particular) is bad - but still manage about 10 weekend trips each season.
And I for one, would definitely wear Scottish Ski Area clobber! (Though not from Cairngorm bearing the ridiculous words 'Natural Retreats'....) |
Well that makes two of us - conclusive proof that a market exists!
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Its clear from bigtippers post the 6 resorts have a uphill battle though with lots to do. As a silly Southerner who dares ski here Neil neige you are much better informed than bigtipper who sounds like he may live on this side of the border so you can see the struggle in front of them. Folks like him do more harm than good from their 2 days a decade Scottish ski jaunts.
Glencoe have a small range of branded stuff in the cafe next time you're there.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I was thinking of getting an annual pass to Glencoe but it worked out at 10 days to cover the cost.
It would be great if the season tickets covered three days at other areas. If I assume once a week skiing from christmas- april (bearing in mind I will be at Cairngorm at Christmas) and on the BB and EOSB so effectively I could go EVERY week for one day for the cost of an annual pass. Hardly an incentive to cough up for an annual. One year I got one day in Glencoe due to work and rain at the weekend. So an annual would be a waste for me.
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I live in southern England, have been hoping to make a foray north for the last couple of years and am yet to do it.
An easily digestible forecast covering snow and weather conditions for all the resorts 3-4 days ahead would be helpful as that's amount of time I need to start telling people I'm taking time off. I know that information exists but not (AFAIK) in one place or interpreted for skiing. Forecasts for southern England are now pretty reliable 3-4 days ahead, whether the same is true of the Highlands I don't really know.
Unless you drive (I won't) or rent a car, travel arrangements aren't easy to understand. People here have been helpful in explaining possibilities and that's great but it isn't "marketing".
Merchandising, no thanks. I've never wanted to be a walking bill-board for someone else's product. That's just me.
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| GlasgowCyclops wrote: |
| I was thinking of getting an annual pass to Glencoe but it worked out at 10 days to cover the cost. |
But once you have got it, you will be more tempted to use it perhaps. And there can be other reasons for getting one. I have just bought a season pass for Yad Moss. Not as expensive as a Scottish season pass but I don't know how many days I will be able to use it. Still, it's important to me to support Yad Moss even if it turns out not to be good value in terms of skiing days. And anyway, be optimistic. This is surely going to be the BEST EVER year for fantastic conditions in the North British Pennines
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I'm famously sceptical about skiing in Scotland have always maintained it doesn't make much sense for someone living in the South if the UK, so with an open mind I'll try to imagine what would tempt me to ski in Scotland.....
1. Really good infrastructure. I feel that skiing in Scotland is a massive gamble because it is not snow sure and the weather is usually atrocious, so if/when I do go then I'd want to be sure that lift queues etc. were minimal.
2. Excellent accommodation within 15 minutes of the slopes.
Ummm those about the only things within your control. The really important things e.g. Weather, snow cover and bigger mountains are unchangeable.
With all great infrastructure and perfect accommodation would I then ski in Scotland? Probably not. It's too much of a gamble for too little return.
Incidentally, I've never understood the idea of skiing in one's own country to be a particular draw in itself. Skiing in a different country is, by its very nature, more exotic and more of a holiday.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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So what you are saying is that you'd like it to be like a major alpine resort.
"Skiing in one's own country" means nothing to me either but I've walked and climbed in the Highlands and it can be stunningly beautiful in a way quite different to the Alps. That's the appeal to me. I'm well aware finding those conditions needs planning and some luck.
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mountainaddict,
Couldn't agree more re the challenging nature of the runs in Scotland, like the Flypaper at Glencoe. Not to mention the other runs in that vicinity, where a fall would mean a cliff drop, serious injury, or worse...
Add to that some of the most stunning views you will ever encounter on skis and it might keep a true skier happier for slightly longer than a taster!
As others have said, the weather/wind can be disruptive in Scotland (a bit like in Tignes, Val Thorens and other pointy-terrained, upland areas) but if you plan your trip with an open mind you can enjoy some seriously fantastic skiing up there. It's not the Alps but that's what makes it great. It's different and its in the UK (at least for the time being!)
Once the snow arrives we have found consistently good conditions in Scotland - until May in the last few years. Although folk talk of crowds in Scotland, we have yet to experience up there a volume of traffic so great that pistes become scraped and icy to the extent that certain runs always do in the Alps. (We all know of certain runs that we would put our house on as guaranteed to be poor snow, due to the volume of traffic).
Then again, as @scotspikey says, it's best not to market Glencoe as most folk would hate it! 
Neil Neige, are you heading north again this winter?
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Tue 1-11-16 9:38; edited 1 time in total
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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My recollection from the mid 80s at Uni was that about 50% of our planned trips came off. Mind you, we were "racing" so there were somewhat different criteria to just going skiing.
So as said elsewhere, if you are planning in advance for a snow sure skiing holiday, hopefully with some sunny days, at least from Midlands southwards, you are probably best heading to an airport.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Have to agree with the final comment.
Skiing in Scotland is third world skiing. But it is better than a snow dome or plastic mountain.
I've had some fantastic days at Glenshee; great snow and little in the way of queues. Cairngorm is different. Serious under-investment means massive queues to even get up the mountain if there is insufficient snow low down to run the Car Park T-Bar or Fiacil Poma. It is often not much better up the mountain either with long queues. The advantage with CG is having Aviemore and the Spey Valley to fall back on if weather is really crap.
Contrary to what has been said there is an hourly bus from Aviemore to the Ski Centre.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
The best way to appreciate Scottish ski resorts is to appreciate what they are.
A bunch of small local resorts mainly frequented by day trippers / weekenders rather than holiday makers.
Those who live in northern part of UK (within driving distance) are lucky enough to be able to ski on mountains at short notice without jumping on a plane.
This will always be the core audience. Most winters I get to ski ~25-30 days on Scottish snow (plus the odd holiday away to alps).
Which means that skiing gets to become a sport rather than occasional holiday activity.
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This.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| foxtrotzulu wrote: |
| Incidentally, I've never understood the idea of skiing in one's own country to be a particular draw in itself. Skiing in a different country is, by its very nature, more exotic and more of a holiday. |
I'm lucky enough to have been skiing for a good 30+ years. But nearly every time I go skiing, it's been to a foreign country (in Europe).
So to me, skiing normality is a foreign language, foreign currency, change of time zone, airports, passport control etc.
So skiing in Scotland feels like a huge novelty and, yes, does seem pretty exotic in the context of my skiing experiences. Had I grown up in a Scottish glen and spent my childhood learning to ski in Scotland, then of course there would be nothing exotic about a Scottish ski trip.
--
Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Tue 1-11-16 10:45; edited 1 time in total
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Poster: A snowHead
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Over the years I've skied at all the Scottish ski areas (with the exception of Lowther Hills which is more of a club operation, all kudos to them). The lift infrastructure at both Glenshee and Glencoe is gradually getting upgraded (well done to them), but it seems that Cairngorm under its new operator Natural Retreats shows little interest in catering for the ski and snowboard customers, preferring the coach party tourists. If only they had the foresight and will to re-instate uplift on the Ciste side then Cairngorm and Aviemore with its restaurants and apres ski bars, and sleeper train connection from England would become once again the popular ski resort it deserves to be.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Gaza wrote: |
Have to agree with the final comment.
Skiing in Scotland is third world skiing. |
Technically, of course, both Austria and Switzerland are third world countries,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_World
Sorry - no-one likes a pedant!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Scottish skiing at its best is magnificent and anyone who purports to be a British skier, in contrast to a ski holidaymaker, should try it at least once. It should be mandatory at a certain level of BASI IMV. But as identified above there are intrinsic problems with the "when it's good it's overly busy" factor.
No doubt in mind that people who have cut their teeth skiing in the "variable" conditions in Scotland tend to be clearly better skiers than the average Brit holiday punter.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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On a more personal note, I am studying in Dundee this year and would like to sample a Scottish resort if possible (since I'm already up here!). Any tips on where/how to to go?
I am still a beginner (second week of skiing booked this December in Val Thorens but opted for shorter private lessons over group last time so hoping I will improve a bit quicker) and am restricted in terms of transport as I don't have a car. I had a little look a few months ago (thank you old snowheads posts) about which resorts might be accessible to me and it seemed liked Cairngorms and staying in Aviemore (there seemed to be a free coach up?) was the most sensible option?
It seems like impromptu arrangements are the way to go depending on snowfall (which months are most likely though?) but any tips on logistics would be helpful!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Thanks for starting this thread by the way - it's still a novel idea for me to get my head around that you can go skiing in the UK...great to read the discussion. 
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@hebejeebie, Where are you studying ? There may be groups that arrange transport up to Glenshee each weekend.
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Closest for you would be Glenshee but you will need a lift, i'm sure others from your Uni/College will go i'd be asking on their forums/facebook, or you can try getting a lift from someone on the winterhighland forum three's a lift to the hills sub forum, or here even, else yes you could get the bus to Aviemore then another up to the slopes.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@hebejeebie, Given your Dundee location, I'd definitely say Glenshee. As has been said with Scottish skiing it's best to keep a check on the weather forecast and if it's looking good for up to 2 or 3 days ahead then make your plans. Obviously if you can go during a weekday it's less likely to be busy than at the weekend. If you're looking to stay overnight nearby then Braemar is the closest town, although will be other B&B accommodation in nearby locations.
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FAQ
