 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi all,
I'm off to Japan in February, and will be needing some touring bindings for short hikes (1-2 hours absolute max). The skis I'll be mounting them to at first will be a pair of Atomic Bent Chetlers, just for the holiday, before putting them on my Salomon Sentinels for other trips in the future doing some very slightly longer hikes. The main focus is on the downhill, not the uphill so I've come across a few bindings that cater for this - Markers (which ones I have no idea!), Salomon Guardians/Atomic Trekker, Diamir Fritschi Pro. I was hoping that one (or more of you!) could point me in the best direction to go. I'm 6'2, 90kg and ski with a din setting of 8.5.
It's been suggested to me that the Guardians (my favourite looks wise!) isn't particularly suitable due to having a high starting DIN setting of 7. Should I dismiss this and go ahead with the thought of "it's rated for 7-16 and I'm 8.5 so it will work for me" or think it's near the low end of the possible settings so I should look elsewhere?
Any further comments, or tips on what to buy would be most useful.
Many thanks,
Chris
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Marker Barons or an 11/12 Duke (as opposed to the Duke EPF). Guardians are longer, heavier, dearer, have no flat walk mode, won't accept a full vibram sole in the future & aren't fully beta tested yet.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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i bought some guardians and put them on a pair of atomic theories. I am a beginner tourer and like you i have the same ambitions to do small climbs but with a binding i feel totally confident in.
So far i have used it 10 ski days for tight turns all-day on piste, off piste and one small tour (about 1hr - 90 mins climbing). I have been really pleased with it so far.It feels just like my pure alpine binding to ski with, and when i did the small tour i really diddn't feel the weight was a big problem and it felt comfortable in my alpine boots. Although i have to say i have nothing to compare it with, i was just happy with my first experiance.
I have found the binding to be very tolerant off-piste to a bit of snow going in. It clicks in very solidly and i dont spend much if any time cleaning away snow.
I did find that after my one tour, that i had to scrape away a bit where it closes to return to alpine mode.
I think the selling point of ''not taking off your bindings after a climb'' to be mute as it v. difficult to remove skins, put them away etc without getting out the bindings. Although being able to go from alpine to tour is quite good and works well enough.
i guess they are more expensive compared to a marker offering and do a siimilar thing.
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Just get the Marker Barons, tried and tested. Do a great job of what they're designed to do - ski like an alpine binding, with flexibility to skin for a few hours. Not really anything to be gained by spending more on the new Sallies/Atomics.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Perfect advice guys, thank you very much. Looks like it'll be a pair of Barons for me!
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| Chrisssyg wrote: |
| Perfect advice guys, thank you very much. Looks like it'll be a pair of Barons for me! |
Sounds like a good plan. I have Fritschi freerides and I'm pretty happy with them. I did have issues with pre-release but my boots were pretty (OK, very) worn, since I got new boots I have had no issues (Frischi and the UK distributors were very helpful by the way, they checked the bindings and verified the release pressure was correct). However, everyone I've met who has owned Markers seems to rave about them, and I've met a few Fritschi-to-Marker converts. I've not met anyone who switched from Markers to Fritschi (or Guardians). That said, a lot of people do swear by Dynafit (aka Tech) bindings. I think if I ever went for a "pure" touring setup (i.e. something aimed more at up hill and multi day tours rather than downhill performance) then I'd look at those.
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I have Fritschi FR Pro and a big advantage for me is the ability to change to walk mode without taking ski off as with Marker and DynaFit - although thought DF could switch with ski on. Pushing out after a descent is very easy and faster when in walk mode and even gentle ascents are possible in walk mode before skins are required. A couple of ski guides with DF was well impressed by ease of in and out of walk mode.
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| Chrisssyg wrote: |
| It's been suggested to me that the Guardians (my favourite looks wise!) isn't particularly suitable due to having a high starting DIN setting of 7. Should I dismiss this and go ahead with the thought of "it's rated for 7-16 and I'm 8.5 so it will work for me" or think it's near the low end of the possible settings so I should look elsewhere? |
Bit late of course, but DIN testing and certification isn't a fuzzy thing... if a binding has been certified to reach a DIN release value of 7, then it'll do just that. There's a lighter version of the Guardian coming out with a lower release value range (5-13 or thereabouts) which will give you an excellent excuse to upgrade next year, of course.
Incidentally, there's nowt wrong with the downhill performance of dynafits, especially if you're looking at release values like 8.5. Don't think of them as delicate little uphill-only things. If you're not a great big heavy charging cliff-jumping sort of guy, they're an entirely reasonable alternative.
| colinstone wrote: |
| I have Fritschi FR Pro and a big advantage for me is the ability to change to walk mode without taking ski off as with Marker and DynaFit |
Can you fit skins without taking the ski off? Perhaps you should post a video of this  I could perhaps see the benefit if you're using patterned-base skis. If you're making ski-tour transitions often enough for the release-re-entry delay to become irritating, then you're probably on the sort of terrain that best suits free-heel bindings in the first place.
The tour mode switch in Markers can occasionally ice up, which will be rather irritating. The brakes on the Markers have shorter arms than Fritschis, too (same length as Marker's standard alpine bindings, despite the extra stack height). Neither of these reasons seems to be enough to encourage Marker-users to switch to Fritschis, mind you!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Serriadh, being able to flip between walk and ski mode can be helpful if you get a downhill section which isn't long enough to merit removing skins, but is long enough that having your heel fixed is nice. also, as colinstone says on flat sections when you have been skiing, going into walk mode can be quicker than just skating
that said, these gains seem quite marginal to me and I have regretted not having this ability about once in 5 seasons or so since I ditched Fritschis
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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[quote="franztrimmel"]
| Quote: |
| Just get the Marker Barons, tried and tested. Do a great job of what they're designed to do - ski like an alpine binding, with flexibility to skin for a few hours. Not really anything to be gained by spending more on the new Sallies/Atomics. |
Hi guys i did a little article about Fritschi Vipec 12, King Pin 12, and Marker tour F12 EPF.
This are the bindings what we recommended to or clients this winter 15/16.
I know i am a little late but i just found this topic 
The Marker tour is the best compromise and the typical all round binding and far better than any other frame bindings ( from other companies)
anyway have here a quick read:
https://alloffpiste.com/which-touring-binding-is-the-best-for-me/
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@franztrimmel, wow, bit of a bump, especially as there are plenty of very recent threads on touring bindings.
Out of interest, why did you not include any Dynafit bindings? Rather a large omission, especially if you are recommending bindings to clients.
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You know it makes sense.
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| franztrimmel wrote: |
| Whats your opinion? |
That the new generation Dynafits have addressed any historic disadvantages - you tested the new Kingpins, so why not Beast or Radical 2.0s at the same time? All the same (newest) generation, both DIN certified.
Users of the new versions AFAIAW don't feel the need to lock the toe, but some seem to like having the option there in certain terrain (not terrain I ski! So toe locking not of interest to me personally )
What specific disadvantages do you think they have compared to the other bindings in your test?
(I'm just curious, not attacking your report - you've published a lot of very interesting and useful content on your site!)
Personal experience - I ski Radical 2.0s and I loooooooove them. I did consider the Kingpins - I never got around to actually skiing them though I'll admit.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| fixx wrote: |
| franztrimmel wrote: |
| Whats your opinion? |
That the new generation Dynafits have addressed any historic disadvantages - you tested the new Kingpins, so why not Beast or Radical 2.0s at the same time? All the same (newest) generation, both DIN certified.
Users of the new versions AFAIAW don't feel the need to lock the toe, but some seem to like having the option there in certain terrain (not terrain I ski! So toe locking not of interest to me personally )
What specific disadvantages do you think they have compared to the other bindings in your test?
(I'm just curious, not attacking your report - you've published a lot of very interesting and useful content on your site!)
Personal experience - I ski Radical 2.0s and I loooooooove them. I did consider the Kingpins - I never got around to actually skiing them though I'll admit. |
The King pin is a very good compromise for me it was a litte bit to heavy. The first generation was very bad, the ski stopper did not open and the front part of the binding fall apart.
We skied the Dynafit Beast and it is a absolute disaster. It is a combination of all disadvantages in one Binding.
Very heavy 1,9 kg
It is impossible to walk without the heel lifter. The heel lifter is minimum 2 cm high
and super expensive
Lots of my colleagues which are using the radical have to lock it on the way down. I personally had not a bad experience with the radical but we had so many clients where the Binding released on the piste and in any situation ...
Most of the people just don't feel safe in a open dynafit binding position.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Without me searching through other threads, can anyone recommend me some touring bindings for next season? I`ll be using them in Scotland, mostly Cairngorms and around Lochaber. Haven`t got skis yet either but i`m thinking about some K2 waybacks or maybe Fischer Hannibals. (open to ski suggestions also). I`ve got piste skis/boots for skiing on piste so i`ll be using the touring kit mainly off piste.
I`m 6ft tall and around 96kgs. Intermediate skier. Was looking at the dynafit beasts, 14 or 16, but not too sure. I have fischer transalp ts lite boots.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Deedee, For the Dynafit bindings you need boots with Dynafit inserts. If you would like to use it with your boots and you are mainly walking than the Fritschie Eagle is the best binding for you.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@franztrimmel, my word, some generalisations there! In light of the well documented teething troubles of the first 2 or 3 iterations of the Vipec, it seems a rum choice to recommend as a go-to tech binding rather than the Dynafit's you have encountered which appear to have heels made of cheese.
I and 4 of my constant companions throughout the whole of last season (approximately 400 ski days between us) used Dynafit's the entire time for lots of uphill and downhill which included:
0 locked toes
0 binding breakages
No discernible safety disadvantages
No discomfort (we were mostly on Beast 14's or Radical 2's).
This was in striking contrast to the unfortunate chap we encountered in the Trient hut. He, his guide, and Haute Route group had to go down to Trient, then goodness knows where else in taxis seeking repairs to his brand new Vipec (latest "black" version) as the toe leaver had broken off one on the first day of use.
Now I know that this is just anecdotal from me, and that there will be countless other different experiences. However, as @fixx, notes, there are plenty of threads on these bindings. I suggest that many of those might provide some helpful illumination to your clients.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| franztrimmel wrote: |
| @Deedee, For the Dynafit bindings you need boots with Dynafit inserts. If you would like to use it with your boots and you are mainly walking than the Fritschie Eagle is the best binding for you. |
What kind of inserts should I get for your preferred Vipec Bindings?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| franztrimmel wrote: |
From or opinion the Dynafit has in terms of comfort and safety lots of disadvantages.
Have a look, i would say at least 90% of Dynafit users lock the front part of the binding. This Binding can never be open at all. Thats technology from 1920 .
The new heel part of the dynafit keeps breaking since they have changed to the flip heel raiser.
Whats your opinion? |
Sorry, I just figured that if you hated the old old dynafit stuff so much that you have a new insert to work with the Vipec and all its problems, like a "vipec" insert. guess i was wrong.
I t seems odd that you can recommend Dynafit and then say it's wrong?
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| franztrimmel wrote: |
@fixx,
| Quote: |
| Out of interest, why did you not include any Dynafit bindings? Rather a large omission, especially if you are recommending bindings to clients. |
From or opinion the Dynafit has in terms of comfort and safety lots of disadvantages.
Have a look, i would say at least 90% of Dynafit users lock the front part of the binding. This Binding can never be open at all. Thats technology from 1920 .
The new heel part of the dynafit keeps breaking since they have changed to the flip heel raiser.
Whats your opinion? |
That you are talking utter nonsense.
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| Quote: |
No discernible safety disadvantages
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None of them have lateral release at the toe. I've not had it happen to me but I understand rotational tib/fib fractures kind of smart a bit. Mr Trimmel is a long way from being the only guide to recommend the Vipec to clients on safety grounds.
That said, I still run Vertical STs. They work and I'm ok with the increased risks.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Hmm it seems while Vipec has had success in penetrating the guide market, people who actually spend a lot of time fiddling with the various bindings don't necessarily agree in their superiority over modern Dynafits - see here for instance:
http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=125748
The fact that some people, for reasons discussed on the Minna Riihimaki thread choose to lock toes for downhill on Dynafits doesn't mean that it's a reason to discount dynafits IMV.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| ........Hmm it seems while Vipec has had success in penetrating the guide market, people who actually spend a lot of time fiddling with the various bindings don't necessarily agree in their superiority over modern Dynafits ........... |
But then there is a deference between fiddling and the odd day touring as opposed to being out on the mountain when ever you can in a wide variety of conditions 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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But from the X ray it looks like five minutes with a nailgun and you were fine, no?
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You know it makes sense.
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@marksavoie, toes appear to be locked
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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And I think I'd prefer narrower skis. Caster and all that...
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Poster: A snowHead
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@marksavoie, he's also wearing that light weight Petzl helmet which is a nice piece of kit that a few of my CAF friends have.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
@marksavoie, toes appear to be locked
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On the bloody Shroud? I should coco. I feel ill at the thought!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@On the rocks, no binding will release in all situations that might result in injury even if set correctly. As such, there's a trade off in binding design between protecting the knee and protecting the leg from breakage. Alpine bindings and the Vipec almost always only have lateral release at the toe and come down on the side of leg protection. Dynafits and almost all other tech bindings only have lateral release at the heel.
Obviously that's not the only factor in selecting a binding but Franz Trimmel is a long way from being the only guide recommending the Vipec to clients. Chap I skied with in Disentis this year was using them as his only binding with no complaints.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I do think there is a factor with guides in that they tend to ski more "sympathetically" than the average punter and are less likely to be a) in terrain which is at the top of their performance capability and b) falling.
They also get their kit free or heavily subsidised, and while I wouldn't say this means they would approve stuff which is unsafe it may mean that they haven't exhaustively tested all options.
Personally when I buy a tech binding knowing that I won't be using it (intentionally) in extreme terrain I'll be looking for durability and as close to a good alpine release as I can get.
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Sorry no x-rays but I was looking down on the sole of my foot, my ankle having been severed 2/3 of its circumference and approx 2 inch of tib and fib shattered and scattered across the ground, very lucky to have avoided amputation
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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If i have 96mm wide skis, are bindings with 105mm brakes too wide?
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FAQ
