Dynafit Beast as only binding

A snowHead

Hi everyone, first post on here....i've been having a look around and the forum looks like a great place!

I've been shopping for next season's skis and have landed some Scott Black Majics and Dynastar Cham 97s.

I had intended to mount the black majics with a marker squire and the chams with a marker tour F12 BUT was wondering what the collective thought of quiver killering some beasts across the two skis.

Having never used a tech binding, my question comes more from a "will the beasts kill my knees/legs if and when i fall over" rather than a performance perspective (Ive already read good things about the beasts on here!)

Cheers, Mike

A snowHead

p.s I know that an alpine building can't guarantee safety, i just wondered what other folks were doing/thinking.......

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@mikeebee, Welcome to SnowHeads

I've had my Beast 16's for two seasons now, QK'd across two pairs, and the only issues experienced in use have been a couple of heel releases due to incomplete step-in/pin insertion, ie. user error. I happily use mine for everything except longer tours, where saving a kilogram in weight is more important. In terms of skiing I've never noticed them being any different to alpine bindings, and they have always released when required.

As you mention, no binding is perfect in that respect, but if you are from the 'Crash Test Dummy' school of skiing, then maybe tech bindings are not the best choice for resort/piste skiing.

I find that the Beasts absorb much more 'clatter and chatter' than normal tech bindings. For example I can definitely notice the difference between skiing on my Radical ST's or Plum Guides, which are much harsher than the Beasts.

I haven't seen very many other skiers on Beast 16's, so they are not that common, with initial price being one consideration. Having said that, if you only buy one pair of bindings rather than two the costs balance out.

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I've skied Beasts QK'd across 2/3 pairs of skis for a few seasons and they're designed to do exactly what you require them to do.

I've also supplied hundreds of the same/similar bindings (ie Dynafit Beast 16, Beast 14, Radical 2 ST/FT & Marker Kingpins) with & without QK installations for customers. The Dynafits ski as well as any quality alpine binding and better than most.

The Beast 14's toes have 95% of the function of the 16's but are simpler, lighter, a lot less prone to icing and are less expensive so unless you're hucking 20 footers they're the better option.

The Kingpins, both the Beast models & both of the Radical 2 models are all TUV din certified. The rotary toes of the Dynafits take the harshness out of the tech toes on hardpack so ski smoother than the Kingpins.

The 105mm Beast or Rad 2 brake will work across both the Cham 97's and the Black Majics as does the 75-100mm Kingpin brake.

If you don't go for the Beasts then QK a pair of F10/12's across both skis and forget the Squires.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Thanks for the replies....

@Powderadict - i'm not much of a 'crash test dummy', but I'm definitely NOT an advanced skier - I'd say (like to think Very Happy

) i'm still improving - I feel that my 'skill set' still changes quite a bit after a weeks skiing, so I wouldn't want the binding to hold me back by making me worry about if i'm going to twang a knee if i mess up where an alpine binding would have released.

I know its difficult to make a direct comparison between the two in terms of release, because they both release differently but as I'm ready for new boots, my thinking was that if i could get one binding that skis as well as an alpine binding but tours better than a frame binding then that would be good.

@spyderjon - i was leaning more towards the 14 than the 16 - I won't be doing any hucking of that sort/size - thats not a performance aspect I'm that interested in! (if only Little Angel

)
Interesting what you say about using the F10/12's on both skis - I hadn't considered that - it could keep me in one set of boots i suppose.........back round again..... Puzzled

I read somewhere on wildsnow that a binding that releases from the heel (such as the beast) would better protect against MCL/ACL injuries whereas a binding that releases from the toe (i.e alpine/vipec) protects better against tib/fib fractures.
I know this depends on an almost infinite number of variables, but i wonder if a fairly non aggressive, not advanced skier such as myself would be more susceptible to ligament injuries than a broken bone, and therefore better protected by a 'heel releasing' binding ?

thanks again

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The Beast skis better than the F10/12 Tour, is lighter and of course is frameless so skins waaay better. The only downside is the dearer is the initial cost, assuming that you get boots with tech inserts. If you're in the market for new boots then it would be a mistake not to get a tech boot, especially as these days there's loads to choose from so getting a correct is easy v just a few years ago.

The Wildsnow article is correct but when you see a rotary toe'd Beast/Rad 2 releasing in a torque resting machine you'd see that you're getting the best if both.

If you went with a Marker frame binding (which are the best of them) then don't mistakenly by the wider Tour EPF version as it's too wide for the Majics.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

@mikeebee, I've skied my Beast 16's now for 3 seasons mounted on QK's (as recommended by Spyderjon) so I can move them between skis and they are rock solid under foot, every bit as good as an say a Duke and they are much lighter and perform better in my opinion. I don't find them heavy, I'd rather have the bulkier toe-piece than the 14's, for me its all about the down, with an occasional 1-1.5 hour max skin. Great functionality and rock solid, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend them. Never had icing up issues, but they do need greasing now and again. One downside you'll get fed up of people (Scandi geeks normally) admiring them in gondolas and asking techy questions about them! (true but not an issue, just joking).

My wide skis the F10's and she's a big fan too.

Go for it...the Beast 16's are great.

After all it is free

I've had my first season skiing mainly on Beast 14s (occasionally taking out piste skis on alpine bindings). As far as I can see they ski every bit as well as alpine bindings. I came out of them twice - both times accidentally dropping off things in bad viz (not sensible I know Embarassed

). They worked perfectly then (I stuck the tips in - no question they needed to come off) and I didn't get a single pre-release.

I don't doubt the 16s are good, I just decided that for my skiing (I like playing with little jumps as much as the next middle-aged juvenile but I'm not hucking any cliffs) they offered nothing extra and would cost me weight and cash.

Watching this thread with interest.......
I've gone with beasts (14) for next season. They will be the first tech binding that I've used too (hi Jon 😀)

I haven't used them yet ( the wait is killing me) but despite having read the wildsnow article/reviews and accounts of people using the beast as their main binding I still have a perhaps irrational fear of not being in an alpine binding

I suppose a few minor spills (with the release wound down) should dispel my fear of the beast

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@andymb, You'll not notice any difference, my 16's are ace.

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

Any enthusiasm for the Vipec? Looks to have side release at the toe, flat tour mode and some heel elasticity (edit: fore-aft).

snow reports

I agree totally with all the comments here (apart from Idris, soz Blush

)
I've skied the Beast 14 for 2 seasons now on and off-piste and they are bomb-proof, absorb vibes like an alpine binding and give me the elasticity/security that I need.....
A bit heavier than a Radical 2, a bit lighter than a Salomon/Marker alpine binding, but soon versatile Very Happy

You know it makes sense.

Sounds good......next season feels such a long time off Sad

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

thanks everyone for your input - sounds like they are a very workable solution to my next ski setup.....

I wonder why such a versatile binding is so rarely seen around the resort?

tech compatible boots are the next stop for me

cheers, mike

A snowHead

Not cheap are they Shocked

$850

A snowHead

@Masque, Don't pay full retail. A quick search shows that they can be had for quite a bit less:

https://shop.epictv.com/en/touring-bindings/dynafit/beast-16-2016?sku=DYN15BEA16C-120

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All this talk of bindings and performance on and off the piste etc etc but that performance or lack of it can be directly affected by the boot being used!

I have two tech boots, one pair the more touring biased Salomon mountain lab boot (Explorer) and some stiffer Black Diamond 130 Factors, depending on what boot I use and on what snow pack the difference can be noticeable, though I don't see much of a difference between my Vipecs and new Dynafiddles 2.0 on light weight touring skis.

On my Scott Cascades I have the Scott Guardians and I can set these up for all the boots I use, so if I'm using lifts or hiking then I'll use my downhill boots (have a good walk mode) as opposed to my touring boots and performance difference is a lot!

I've just bought some brand new bargain K2 Coomback 114's and I'm now deliberating what binding to use on these, as they will probably be a replacement for my powder skis and Cascades, decisions, decisions........and last time I was touring I was using the Cascades with the frame on icy spring snow pack and they were a PITA that said I toured on them in powder a handful of times and they were fine.

So first I think I would realistically theorise what type of skiing you will be doing and then identify the boot, and from there deduce the binding.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Lots of love for the Beast on this thread, but surely the same "one binding for all" could apply to the cheaper and lighter Vipec 12 with other advantages such as being able to skin on flat ground and not having to fix a plate to your boots? Or am I missing something?

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@On the rocks, I think the issue with the Vipec was that it had minor issues immediately it came out (as have most tech bindings), which put people off, and it is now on its 3rd or 4th iteration already with the Black edition. Since all the versions are called Vipec there is scope to buy/be sold, one of the older versions.

I guess the main difference is that the Beast 16 USP was originally targeting the Marker Duke market, with the same DIN and better tour mode. Whereas the Vipec's main USP is a better toe release mode.

If the Beast did not exist, I would almost certainly have bought the Vipec, Kingpin or Radical 2.0, with the Radical 2.0 being favorite.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

@On the rocks, The Vipec is really an outright touring binding which competes with the old Radical (1), the Speed Radical, G3 Ion & the Plums etc. Whilst it's an elegant design it's just not burly enough to be a single binding solution (with the exception of maybe with a small/lightweight user). The Beast 16/14, the Kingpin & to a lesser extent the Radical 2 ST/FT have been designed from the outset to be single binding solutions. These are freeride touring bindings designed to drive wider skis when driven by one of the latest generation of stiffer freeride touring boots.

The first two versions of the Vipec had major durability/design issues all of which have been well documented - but that's what you get when something's rushed to market. My favourite description of them was from CH20 who likened them to a Kinder Egg. When I torque tested them their lack of torsional stiffness was very noticeable. I had a good few arrive on my bench to fix (bought overseas) & a number of purchasers asked me to remount their skis with Dynafits.

They're now on to their third variant, the Black, which apparently addresses all of the issues. They have only been out a few months so time will tell but according to recent posts on tgr there's still problems with pins coming loose etc. I mounted a pair of Blacks a few weeks ago with QK's & they didn't appear any stiffer - but to be fair they are no different in this respect to their true competitors. Whilst the Vipec has always had a din adjustable/certified straight lateral toe release it still has very little elasticity - it's more a case of being in or out, with very little in between. If Fritschi have got the Black sorted then it's going to give the Speed Radical, the Plums & the Ion a real run for their money.

After all it is free

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@On the rocks, can't see your stats being a problem at all but the Preachers are gonna hurt you if you plan on doing a lot of skinning. The R.108's will help but at your stats I'd strongly recommend the R.98's, or R.98CL's if your budget can handle the extra hit.

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@On the rocks, Not sure whether you are planning ski touring proper or skinning up to access Freeride terrain but if it's the latter I'd thoroughly recommend r108CL's with Beast 16's. For me it's all about the downs. I'm heavier than you at 88kg and I ski 186's with B16's but my wife is 52kg and has r108CL's 168's with F10's. Both great set ups. I QK mine and swap onto the Ragnarok 191 CL's as my go to ski whenever there's a hint of powder, which thankfully seems to be most of the time last 2 seasons, we've chosen our weeks well.

Don't know if that helps?

snow reports

I've not used the Beast, but I changed to a Radical 2.0 only setup last summer after some very helpful conversations with @spyderjon - and I've not regretted it in the slightest! 3 pairs of skis quiverkillered for one pair of bindings, with waist ranging from 85mm to 107mm - there's a photo here if you want a look. http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=65940&start=200#2780149

Reason: I needed new boots anyway, and wanted to move to a better touring set up (previously I was just hiring skis with frame touring bindings as needed).

This past winter I skied a bit less than the previous two, so not as much touring as I would have liked - but that meant plenty of downhill on the Radicals, and they were absolutely superb, I wouldn't even consider going back.

I've skied just over 8 weeks on them, and I'm not a terrible skier. So they've been through heavy cut up snow offpiste, fresh powder, crunchy grabby crust, bumps of all descriptions, hard icy refrozen pistes, and glorious soft to slushy groomers, at all kinds of speeds. Never once did I feel any harshness, lack of support/performance, or ever think I'd have liked to be back on my old downhill bindings. And of course they are fab for the uphill, a much more natural movement and lighter weight than frame style touring bindings.

Knee concerns - I did injure a knee this year, while using these bindings (LCL strain). But I also sustained a virtually identical injury 2 years ago on normal downhill bindings which was much more severe - 7 days off skiing this year (followed immediately by 4 weeks of very hard skiing!) vs 6 weeks and season ending 2 years ago. So I'm not concerned about the bindings in that sense Smile

I've had them release when they should, and hold on when i was begging them too, and never a pre-release.

As people above have said - have a proper think about the skiing you will actually be doing, then give @spyderjon a call. He'll see you right Smile

P.S. Amost every instructor I've been out with this past winter has looked at my bindings, and quizzed me about them first chance they got (lifts etc). One had already bought them just not fitted them yet, and one was considering them and decided to go for it and replace his old speed radicals with them over the summer.

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Me and the Mrs have done two seasons on our Vipecs (2nd Generation) and I've done close to 45 tours this past season, admittedly on a variation of gear and not just Vipecs. We've never had any issues, though as I've said before setting them up has to be done well.

Also at the SIGB ski test I tried out around eight or so touring skis (going up as well as down) of which four sets were mounted with the new Vipecs, and boot entry seemed to be a little better. I also tested some Movement touring skis mounted with a Beast binding from last year and had a few issues with the pin and the binding being into their second season looked a bit worn.

I'm also a member of the Club Alpine Briancon and regularly tour with them, plus I ski La Grave and tour in the area so we do see "groups" from LG doing their one day's tour in their one week stay, and quite often said skiers have all the gear rolling eyes

So my observations, for what it's worth.................

The only time I've seen some Beasts being used for touring is when I've skied with my mate Ken Reeve. By far the most popular brand(s) are Dynafit and G3.

In our local Mountaineering / ski touring shop they do not stock Beasts.

I think the reason why is that if someone has the budget for Beasts they'll go for Radical ST 2.0

And like I said above, a lot of feel between the ski and the binding has to do with the interface between them, the boot !!!!!!!!!

A snowHead

so I went for beasts in the end (epictv.com).......

Thanks for the advice and comments everyone (especially fixx - I was very interested to hear about your experience with release/injury in comparison to an alpine binding)

I probably could have got away with radical FT's, but as I dont expect to be doing any especially long skins I went for beasts to be 'on the safe side'

time will tell Very Happy

A snowHead

@mikeebee, note that if you're mounting the Beasts with Quiver Killers then the heel needs to be offset to avoid having to adjust the binding length each time you swap the bindings.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

@spyderjon - thanks for that, its a goodun. think i saw that in a post of yours on TGF and remember thinking that it was one to remember. Cheers Smile

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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Yep, I've a few tele customers that have them & they think they're brill. There was a few issues with the mk1 model but the 2 has been out since last summer & I've not heard of any issues.

Dunno how you could tele with AT boots though due to the lack of bellows?

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i haven't kept up with all the changes to tele boots and bindings but don't NTN tele boots have AT pins? or does this binding only work with scarpa boots in the video?

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

After all it is free

@Masque, no inconvenience/cost to me at all matey. I'll get you again when you're back in full fettle wink

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@spyderjon, are they serious in wanting €200 each (400/pair) for the tech heels Shocked

https://www.the-m-equipment.com/en/online-shop/product/11-alpin-heelset

Help!!

Dynafit Beast as only binding

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