 Poster: A snowHead
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| madlondoner wrote: |
| It's essential for the British left and anyone who values human rights to throw their lot in with the EU; the human rights act is enshrined in our laws and protects us from oppressive policies. |
Nothing at all to do with the EU. The European Convention on Human Rights must be ratified by countries which are members of the Council of Europe, of which there are 47 i.e a great deal more than the EU. It was founded in 1949, long before the EU and its predecessors and the UK was a founder member.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Gerry wrote: |
| 180,000 net per year and rising is not sustainable. |
It's around 0.3% of the population a year, which is perfectly sustainable. You can debate whether it is desirable but it is easily sustainable. It's arguable that with an otherwise ageing population it is necessary.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| tarrantd wrote: |
@CAPTA1N P, You quote only one side of the argument, the other being that parts of Southampton have been regenerated by the Poles. The roads in Southampton have been clogged for over 20 years that's not the fault of the immigrants. Extra school places have been required but NOT in the Polish areas and that's a result of the general increase in population. Most of the Poles are young and don't put a strain on the health service. A local employer needed a large number of workers in 2014 and none of the locals applied via the job centre but once this was known in the Polish community it was oversubscribed, so they are not stealing the jobs of locals.
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I'm going to be blunt and show no respect and say you are talking absolute shite!
Please name some areas regenerated by the Poles? Please, please please.
Clogged for 20 yrs, then add 60,000 more, having kids to get British passports.
More Poles in Shirlski doctors surgeries than Brits.
Name the company?
There are no Polish areas, they are everywhere.
I watched them get off the coach and take the less skilled workers jobs. First stop for the coach was London Rd (Lloyds Bank), 2nd stop DSS office, 3rd stop biggest building site they could find. Got that info back when labour were denying they were getting any benefits of any kind.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| dogwatch wrote: |
| CAPTA1N P wrote: |
Just fyi I have to spend a lot of time working in Glasgow all the way from sunny Southampton. Why? because the immigrants have decimated the building industry, cheap half skilled labour. So I go to Glasgow and take your money and put your fellow jocks out of work, I also earn more money than them as highly skilled is sought after up there.
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I live 45 minutes from Southampton. You struggle here to find a skilled builder available to do anything and the ones you can find are coining it. If you think you have to schlepp all the way to Glasgow to find work you are failing to look around your own back yard.
As for the roads in Southampton, they have been jammed for the 30 years I've known it. |
As I said, no new skilled tradesmen coming through due to cheap half skilled labour. As for 45 mins away, a long way for some.
Refer to my previous post for anything else especially the traffic.
Being originally from Shirley, I know whats going on there and other areas and I stand by everything I've said.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Can a mod please move this thread to the Apres Zone?
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Actually, we have pretty much covered the chalet issue so we should just shut this thread and focus on the main Brexit thread instead.
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| dogwatch wrote: |
| CAPTA1N P wrote: |
Just fyi I have to spend a lot of time working in Glasgow all the way from sunny Southampton. Why? because the immigrants have decimated the building industry, cheap half skilled labour. So I go to Glasgow and take your money and put your fellow jocks out of work, I also earn more money than them as highly skilled is sought after up there.
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I live 45 minutes from Southampton. You struggle here to find a skilled builder available to do anything and the ones you can find are coining it. If you think you have to schlepp all the way to Glasgow to find work you are failing to look around your own back yard.
As for the roads in Southampton, they have been jammed for the 30 years I've known it. |
| tarrantd wrote: |
@CAPTA1N P, You quote only one side of the argument, the other being that parts of Southampton have been regenerated by the Poles. The roads in Southampton have been clogged for over 20 years that's not the fault of the immigrants. Extra school places have been required but NOT in the Polish areas and that's a result of the general increase in population. Most of the Poles are young and don't put a strain on the health service. A local employer needed a large number of workers in 2014 and none of the locals applied via the job centre but once this was known in the Polish community it was oversubscribed, so they are not stealing the jobs of locals.
There is no need to make immigration the major issue for in/out. We need to look at the whole economics of being in or out. Our big companies seem generally to want out since that will enable them to drop many of the EU labour protection laws. VAT will no longer be subject to EU constraints. Buying from the EU will no longer be subject to local VAT, at source, but customs import duty and VAT will apply to the import. The EHIC agreement will cease to be valid so the cost of travel insurance will go up to cover the cost of medical cover. We will be able to buy duty free goods again but there will be limits on the amount you can bring in from the EU just like there is for the rest of the world. Can we negotiate trade agreements with the rest of the world? I hope so but there is no guarantee. We may be a big economy but we are a tiny market for many of the goods. The US will continue to negotiate with the EU but we are small fry in consumer goods terms. Our trade deficit is already too big so we will have to import from the rest of the world so why would they make it easy for us?
Does the EU need reform, almost certainly. Do we want to be part of the united states of Europe, probably not. If we leave will we be able to get back in, Probably not. Can we help to reform it from outside, NO.
Leaving the EU might be a benefit to 'big business' and the City of London but will that help the rest of us? Trickle down economics has never worked in the past so no reason to think it will now.
We need more real information about the impact on us, the electorate, rather than the impact on the elite, if we are to make an informed decision. Will we get it from the likes of Cameron, Farage and Boris I doubt it since all they are interested in is their ego and their life after politics. Personally I think stay is the best option at least then we still have the option to leave if things get worse.
I'll get my tin hat now! |
Good replies / sensible alternate views from people in the area
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| dogwatch wrote: |
| Gerry wrote: |
| 180,000 net per year and rising is not sustainable. |
It's around 0.3% of the population a year, which is perfectly sustainable. You can debate whether it is desirable but it is easily sustainable. It's arguable that with an otherwise ageing population it is necessary. |
Indeed....
A clear case can be made that EU migrants contribute to UK economy thus helping reduce overall unemployment.
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| dogwatch wrote: |
| foxtrotzulu wrote: |
| What makes you think Turkey won't join in the next 50 years? |
That it is clearly unacceptable to most of the existing EU nations. |
Actually, pretty much all European governments are supporting Turkeys application. The only two major opponents at present are J-C Juncker and Germany (where views are divided). There was also talk of Aceesion being speeded up as a carrot to the Turks for resolving the migrant crisis.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| CAPTA1N P wrote: |
| tarrantd wrote: |
@CAPTA1N P, You quote only one side of the argument, the other being that parts of Southampton have been regenerated by the Poles. The roads in Southampton have been clogged for over 20 years that's not the fault of the immigrants. Extra school places have been required but NOT in the Polish areas and that's a result of the general increase in population. Most of the Poles are young and don't put a strain on the health service. A local employer needed a large number of workers in 2014 and none of the locals applied via the job centre but once this was known in the Polish community it was oversubscribed, so they are not stealing the jobs of locals.
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I'm going to be blunt and show no respect and say you are talking absolute shite!
Please name some areas regenerated by the Poles? Please, please please.
Clogged for 20 yrs, then add 60,000 more, having kids to get British passports.
More Poles in Shirlski doctors surgeries than Brits.
Just a few observations from my humble life.
I spent 20 years in education in areas with very high levels of Eastern European immigration. The children were ambitous, hard working and respectful. They achieved far better than the British children because they worked hard and their parents didn't come in all the time blaming the teachers like the working class British parents did. Interestingly, I went to a course in Southampton on 'Getting White Working Class Children to Achieve' It was interesting hearing headteaachers in Southampton talk of the demise of the town when dockers were replaced by shpping containers. They were fighting over Eastern European children as they needed motivated children in their schools to help raise their results. This was the same for schools I worked in. EAL children or Englishas an additional language students were highllt sought after.
I worked with many parents of Polish and other Eastern European children - I can't rememnber any on benefits. They were all really hard working individuals.
I've been in business for three years. Many of my competitors are immigrants. They make it tough for me because they work so bloody hard and it's hard to compete. This is very good for the British economy.
I've employed about 50 people over the past 3 years. I'm sorry to say that the immigrants are by far the hardest workers. Many of the young Brits are afraid of hard work and give poor value for money.
I once had a Czech girlfriend who was a nurse in Boston. I spent much that year in the States living amongst Czech people. any were highly skilled, docotrs and nurses, fliing a skills shortage. The unskilled were doing the jobs Americans didn't want to do -cleaners, car home workers etc. They were all really hard working people.
I was once chatting to someone I know in Norfolk who was banging on about all these foreigners coming over here taking all our jobs. He has never had a job or applied for one in his life.
Whe I moved to King's Lynn in 1993 all the doctos surgeries were full, as were the dentists. This was before the influx of Eastern European immigrants. I finally manged to get a doctor -he was Sudanese and an NHS dentist. She was Polish.
On my visits to Southampton, I have found the roads are very congested, as they are elsewhere. There are over 7 billion people on our small planet. We should probably be looking at that.
Name the company?
There are no Polish areas, they are everywhere.
I watched them get off the coach and take the less skilled workers jobs. First stop for the coach was London Rd (Lloyds Bank), 2nd stop DSS office, 3rd stop biggest building site they could find. Got that info back when labour were denying they were getting any benefits of any kind. |
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| foxtrotzulu wrote: |
| dogwatch wrote: |
| foxtrotzulu wrote: |
| What makes you think Turkey won't join in the next 50 years? |
That it is clearly unacceptable to most of the existing EU nations. |
Actually, pretty much all European governments are supporting Turkeys application. The only two major opponents at present are J-C Juncker and Germany (where views are divided). There was also talk of Aceesion being speeded up as a carrot to the Turks for resolving the migrant crisis. |
France has traditionally opposed although Hollande is less adamant than his predecessor. Given the rise of le Pen and recent security issues it is very hard to see support from France as realistic.
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| cameronphillips2000 wrote: |
| CAPTA1N P wrote: |
| tarrantd wrote: |
@CAPTA1N P, You quote only one side of the argument, the other being that parts of Southampton have been regenerated by the Poles. The roads in Southampton have been clogged for over 20 years that's not the fault of the immigrants. Extra school places have been required but NOT in the Polish areas and that's a result of the general increase in population. Most of the Poles are young and don't put a strain on the health service. A local employer needed a large number of workers in 2014 and none of the locals applied via the job centre but once this was known in the Polish community it was oversubscribed, so they are not stealing the jobs of locals.
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I'm going to be blunt and show no respect and say you are talking absolute shite!
Please name some areas regenerated by the Poles? Please, please please.
Clogged for 20 yrs, then add 60,000 more, having kids to get British passports.
More Poles in Shirlski doctors surgeries than Brits.
Just realised that the way I've presssed the quote button on my previous text makes me sound like I've written all the xenophobic stuff too. Please read between the lines.
Just a few observations from my humble life.
I spent 20 years in education in areas with very high levels of Eastern European immigration. The children were ambitous, hard working and respectful. They achieved far better than the British children because they worked hard and their parents didn't come in all the time blaming the teachers like the working class British parents did. Interestingly, I went to a course in Southampton on 'Getting White Working Class Children to Achieve' It was interesting hearing headteaachers in Southampton talk of the demise of the town when dockers were replaced by shpping containers. They were fighting over Eastern European children as they needed motivated children in their schools to help raise their results. This was the same for schools I worked in. EAL children or Englishas an additional language students were highllt sought after.
I worked with many parents of Polish and other Eastern European children - I can't rememnber any on benefits. They were all really hard working individuals.
I've been in business for three years. Many of my competitors are immigrants. They make it tough for me because they work so bloody hard and it's hard to compete. This is very good for the British economy.
I've employed about 50 people over the past 3 years. I'm sorry to say that the immigrants are by far the hardest workers. Many of the young Brits are afraid of hard work and give poor value for money.
I once had a Czech girlfriend who was a nurse in Boston. I spent much that year in the States living amongst Czech people. any were highly skilled, docotrs and nurses, fliing a skills shortage. The unskilled were doing the jobs Americans didn't want to do -cleaners, car home workers etc. They were all really hard working people.
I was once chatting to someone I know in Norfolk who was banging on about all these foreigners coming over here taking all our jobs. He has never had a job or applied for one in his life.
Whe I moved to King's Lynn in 1993 all the doctos surgeries were full, as were the dentists. This was before the influx of Eastern European immigrants. I finally manged to get a doctor -he was Sudanese and an NHS dentist. She was Polish.
On my visits to Southampton, I have found the roads are very congested, as they are elsewhere. There are over 7 billion people on our small planet. We should probably be looking at that.
Name the company?
There are no Polish areas, they are everywhere.
I watched them get off the coach and take the less skilled workers jobs. First stop for the coach was London Rd (Lloyds Bank), 2nd stop DSS office, 3rd stop biggest building site they could find. Got that info back when labour were denying they were getting any benefits of any kind. |
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@alex_heney, as an ex-engineering contractor for the British big yellow digger company, the right wing owner wants out and is a leading backer of the campaign.
Currently working for the North American Train/Aeroplane Manufacturer and I know if "out" wins it won't be good news for my future here, and its already getting a little twitchy already.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| AthersT wrote: |
@alex_heney, as an ex-engineering contractor for the British big yellow digger company, the right wing owner wants out and is a leading backer of the campaign.
Currently working for the North American Train/Aeroplane Manufacturer and I know if "out" wins it won't be good news for my future here, and its already getting a little twitchy already. |
There are certainly some business leaders who want out.
There are many more who want to stay in. 200 of whom had a letter to that effect published in The Times yesterday.
Polls of the IoD and EFF suggest at least 60% of business leaders want to stay in.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@dogwatch,
| Quote: |
France has traditionally opposed although Hollande is less adamant than his predecessor. Given the rise of le Pen and recent security issues it is very hard to see support from France as realistic.
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You are right that France has traditionally opposed Turkey's membership but as you say, Hollande is in favour. regarding le Pen etc. I'm not sure how relevant that is. Most european poulations oppose Turkish membership, but most European governments are in favour. The UK government is one of Turkey's strongest proponents and yet I'm pretty damned sure that the electorate would run screaming from the idea given half a chance. The idea of moving the Schengen boundary East to touch Syria, Iraq and Iran is enough to put the willies up most people. Personally, I don't think Turkish membership is likley in the next 5-10 years but increasingly probable thereafter. I would never have offered membership to half the countries that are already members.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| CAPTA1N P wrote: |
I watched them get off the coach and take the less skilled workers jobs. First stop for the coach was London Rd (Lloyds Bank), 2nd stop DSS office, 3rd stop biggest building site they could find. |
You followed the bus....reeeaaalllllyyy 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@alex_heney, thing is are you saying all of these are "Our" top businesses? Or just top businesses who also operate here?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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[quote="cameronphillips2000"]
I spent 20 years in education in areas with very high levels of Eastern European immigration.
Really, what country were you teaching in?
The eastern bloc countries came into the EU 2004-2007. Based on that, you are either misleading everyone purposely or maybe just completely unsure of the facts.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Sterling is tanking ..
Will you be able to go skiing when 0.98p = €1?
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| stanton wrote: |
Sterling is tanking ..
Will you be able to go skiing when 0.98p = €1? |
It isn't lijkely taht will be the case by the time of the next skiing season.
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| AthersT wrote: |
| @alex_heney, thing is are you saying all of these are "Our" top businesses? Or just top businesses who also operate here? |
Well the IoD is the UK Institute of Directors, so that poll was "our" businesses.
And looking through the first couple of pages of the letter to the times, most of the signatories look to be bosses of British businesses.
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/opinion/letters/article4696807.ece
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@CAPTA1N P, I taught for over 20 years in a school with a very high % of Polish students - they were the family and descendents of Poles who fought in the British forces during WWII. We had Polish, Italian, Hungarian language and culture classes organised by the various national clubs &/or embassies so that the children born in the UK grew up bilingual and inter-culturally and could choose where to live and work without any disadvantages when they were old enough.
A lot of my father's family still live in Southampton, particularly in and around Shirley and Sholing. I don't recognise it from your description, but then my family members are not blinded by prejudice because we are also descended from immigrants and proud of it!
You really do need to update your understanding of 20th century history. There were waves of emigres into the United Kingdom throughout the inter war years and subsequently: Eastern European nationals who fought with the Allies against the Fascists who were lucky enough to remain in the UK after the war (unlike the Ukrainian and Cossack volunteers who were shipped back on Churchill's orders AGAINST the advice of all the Service chiefs and Intelligence Services who told him they were going back to a certain death). Then immediately post war we had the refugees from all over Europe followed by the East Germans who managed to escape after the 1953 uprising, Hungarians who escaped after the brutal suppresion of the Hungarian Uprising in 1956, Czechs who escaped after the Soviet invasion of August 1968, etc! These are all Eastern Block countries, so calling @cameronphillips2000 a liar just underlines your own ignorance.
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| Quote: |
tarrantd
user
Posts: 211Location: Southampton
Leaving the EU might be a benefit to 'big business' and the City of London but will that help the rest of us? Trickle down economics has never worked in the past so no reason to think it will now.
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Leaving the EU would be disaster for the City (and thus also the UK economy, given the City's huge contribution to the UK economy) - even more so than for other big business.
Because even if we can get a relatively "free trade" deal, our banks, insurers etc won't be able to benefit from the “passporting” of their UK financial services licences – i.e. if it wanted to sell its services or products to a customer in France/Germany/Austria/Spain, it would need to get a separate licence in EACH of France/Germany/Austria/Spain… and be subject to the regulator in that country (just like Swiss companies have to do currently).
Whereas, currently, having a UK licence means that insurance company, asset manager etc can operate in France/Germany/Austria/Spain etc as though it had a licence there.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| foxtrotzulu wrote: |
| Actually, we have pretty much covered the chalet issue so we should just shut this thread and focus on the main Brexit thread instead. |
Well I took your advice. Turns out to be 22 pages of hair-pulling and shin-kicking. No thanks.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| alex_heney wrote: |
| Well the IoD is the UK Institute of Directors, so that poll was "our" businesses. |
There are several million company directors in the UK, any of them can join the IoD and some do because for not all that much money it gets you access to some quite nice working space in central London. My wife used to be a member for that reason. Don't take it seriously as a spokesman for business.
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| Quote: |
Leaving the EU would be disaster for the City
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Is that why the LSE is merging with the Germans?
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You know it makes sense.
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Ok, as this is just going over the same old ground, I am going to lock the thread. The subject of Brexit is not really one for further discussion in The Piste in any case, although the original thread title was.
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FAQ
