 Poster: A snowHead
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| abc wrote: |
| DJL wrote: |
| Orange200 wrote: |
| Stop people walking up escalators and everyone moves faster!! |
Not sure that's what it says. The article sets out that the number per hour increased but presumably it was quicker for most of the standers but slower for some of the walkers. |
It's a unique case, only apply to station that has long steep escalators (the problem being people can't walk up the whole length of the escalator). |
The average Brit can't/won't walk up any escalator. However short.
Having one rule that applies at some times of day on some escalators, and not elsewhere, would be chaos.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Steve Angus wrote: |
....dont often offer my opinion on things on here but efficiency and queuing and filling up seats on lifts etc is a major gripe of mine. Reckon here in the EK with such good lift systems that if the queues were managed properly there would barely be any queues anytime (apart from perhaps to get up the mountain first thing in the am!).
As someone mentioned above there is a 'singles' style lane on the Olympique lift out of town. |
I've obviously been very lucky in recent years as I've seldom had to queue for more than a couple of minutes at most and seldom even that. The whole issue of queuing for lifts isn't a big factor so I'm always quite relaxed about the chairs in front not being full. Then again, I've always avoided Verbier as it used to have a terrible reputation for lift queues.
As an aside, it all depends upon the type of queue. Shuffling slowly forwards to a chairlift is no hardship. Queuing for a gondola or cable car is miserable. Any queuing inside a building is the worst.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| foxtrotzulu wrote: |
| abc wrote: |
| DJL wrote: |
| Orange200 wrote: |
| Stop people walking up escalators and everyone moves faster!! |
Not sure that's what it says. The article sets out that the number per hour increased but presumably it was quicker for most of the standers but slower for some of the walkers. |
It's a unique case, only apply to station that has long steep escalators (the problem being people can't walk up the whole length of the escalator). |
The average Brit can't/won't walk up any escalator. However short.
Having one rule that applies at some times of day on some escalators, and not elsewhere, would be chaos. |
In London, most people walk up escalators. It isn't quicker for any of the walkers at all (obviously), and is ultimately a pointless distinction; if someone stops walking on the escalator then the whole walking side backs up and becomes 'standing' anyway - so why introduce the confusion?
Part of the issue at Holborn is that they have not left enough space for the people who don't want to walk up who then end up queuing at the bottom. I'm guessing somebody did some maths and thinks this may be some kind of safety issue. In reality enforcing the walk on the left rule more strictly may give the standers a bit more exercise; who knows, in the long run that may actually improve health and counteract any safety fears? 
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I've never understood why all lifts don't have single lines. Surely one of the easier ways to reduce down queues? Not a problem in the off peak times when you are waiting 5 mins, but when you are stuck 30 mins it is SO frustrating ot see 6 man chairs going with 1 or 4 people on!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
Queuing for a gondola or cable car is miserable. Any queuing inside a building is the worst.
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Couldn't agree more. The Tignes funicular is one of the worst offenders, damn thing takes 10 minutes after arrival to shuffle into position and let people on (oddly enough, the La Daille one seems much more user friendly). I live & work in London using the tube to commute and I have no desire to replicate the experience when on holiday.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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There's been singles queue on the Pas du Lac out of Motterat ever since the new one was built; you do get some funny looks when getting a cabin though, but who cares when you've skipped forward 50 or so people. Seen a few others in the 3 Vallees on and off.
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| foxtrotzulu wrote: |
The average Brit can't/won't walk up any escalator. However short.
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The average Brit may not be able to walk up, but some "above average" Brit's can! 
In New York, the underground ("Subway") are much shallower than those in London. So people routinely walk up the escalator! You will see a quite orderly line marching up the left side and stationary on the right hand side. (the same at airports that have horizontal moving walkways).
There are, however, a few stations in New York that are quite deep (when tracks cross). There, I could see the point of that study. Even I couldn't easily walk all the way to the top of the escalator. But New Yorkers handle the situation quite well with typical American approach: BOTH side of the escalator will be standing so there's never any wasted space!!!
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Whether the issue is ski lifts or escalators there is a question of whether we are slightly missing the point here. The number one goal is to keep the skiers/travellers happy. Regarding the tube; if we insist on standing on both sides then we might get people through faster, but will they prefer it? People standing are clearly not in a rush, so they won't mind. People who want to walk will be unhappy. If we look at ski lifts we should indeed have singles lines to enable those in a rush to move through faster, but unless there is a significant queue I'm not sure we need any major efforts to ensure every chair is filled. I don't want top spend too uch time in queues, but then again I have no burning desire to be thrust into close proximity with a complete stranger (depending upon what she looks like). I can't be alone in finding it a tad awkward trying to have a normal conversation with a friend/wife/mistress while a large German snowbaorder is six inches away and listening to every word.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| foxtrotzulu wrote: |
| Whether the issue is ski lifts or escalators there is a question of whether we are slightly missing the point here. The number one goal is to keep the skiers/travellers happy. Regarding the tube; if we insist on standing on both sides then we might get people through faster, but will they prefer it? People standing are clearly not in a rush, so they won't mind. People who want to walk will be unhappy. If we look at ski lifts we should indeed have singles lines to enable those in a rush to move through faster, but unless there is a significant queue I'm not sure we need any major efforts to ensure every chair is filled. I don't want top spend too uch time in queues, but then again I have no burning desire to be thrust into close proximity with a complete stranger (depending upon what she looks like). I can't be alone in finding it a tad awkward trying to have a normal conversation with a friend/wife/mistress while a large German snowbaorder is six inches away and listening to every word. |
Exactly this ^^
In the tube example, the 'aggregate mass' of people move more quickly through the station but the individuals that usually walk / run up the escalators move much more slowly, whilst those who are not in a rush (or lazy) move slightly faster at the expense of those in a rush.
As for ski lifts - a singles line might be useful. I usually ski in a group of at least two so its impatient pre-teens trying to walk over my skis that are the most irritating for me. With a singles queue, perhaps they would all wait patiently in that knowing that it is probably the quickest way up the hill...?
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@foxtrotzulu, a good point (even though I argue strongly for singles lanes - maybe there's a commercial dating idea in there?). Skiing is, for me, a massively social sport where I get to catch up with friends I often don't see frequently. So having a good old chairlift chat is important.
Mind you, no friends on a powder day
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I don't find the tube idea crazy - much like the variable speed limit on the M25 theoretically slower can sometimes be faster once you've taken the stop/start & ripple effects out. I expect the impatient back bottoms on M25 were up in arms about that too.
But the analog with ski lifts is strained I think. Reality is singles lines work because they maximise uphill capacity reducing or eliminating lines and so should be celebrated (plus they are an option for the savvy/antisocial to pack in a lot more laps than natterers). If you want a private conversation there is a whole mountainside to have one on.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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chairlift queues are a bit like buses.
If there are only a few folk in front in the queue, then it is expected that groups of friends share a chair each. If there is a large queue then it is expected that every chair gets filled.
If you get on a bus with only three or four folk already aboard, you would not be expected to sit right next to one of them, if the bus was more than half full, you would.
I have had some great chats with strangers on chairlifts and, if they are locals, had some fine recommendations for off the beaten track restaurants/bars that I wouldn't have found otherwise.
Shouts of 'single' in Tbar queues are a good way for two lone skiers to have a chat when going back up.
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@dode,
| Quote: |
If there are only a few folk in front in the queue, then it is expected that groups of friends share a chair each. If there is a large queue then it is expected that every chair gets filled.
If you get on a bus with only three or four folk already aboard, you would not be expected to sit right next to one of them, if the bus was more than half full, you would.
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I think that sums it up very well.
@Dave of the Marmottes,
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| If you want a private conversation there is a whole mountainside to have one on. |
I've always found that the time on a chairlift is perfect for chatting (you can't be doing anything else), while to stop halfway down the mountain to chat and then sit in awkward silence on the lift seems a touch illogical.
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You know it makes sense.
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| foxtrotzulu wrote: |
@Dave of the Marmottes,
| Quote: |
| If you want a private conversation there is a whole mountainside to have one on. |
I've always found that the time on a chairlift is perfect for chatting (you can't be doing anything else), while to stop halfway down the mountain to chat and then sit in awkward silence on the lift seems a touch illogical. |
No-one's is stopping you chatting but I can't see why a chairlift should be unlike any other form of public transport in that you expect to share with members of the public not enjoy private use thereof. Cockwombles having loud and self important phone calls on chairlifts should however be viewed with the same distain they get in a busy train carriage IMV.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@Dave of the Marmottes, We're arguing about different degrees of the same thing. I agree that singles lines are generally a good thing. All I'm saying is that when queues are short then lifties should not be pushed into aggressively filling every lift. Lift users have different priorities, whether it is to get to the top asap or chat top friends or just enjoy the silence and the view or whatever. Sometimes those priorities clash and we all need to compromise accordingly. That might mean that I have to sit next to you when the lifts are busy and it might mean that you wait a few seconds longer when they are not busy so that I can travel in blissful harmony with family/friends/mistress/friend's mistress or whoever.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@foxtrotzulu, the trouble is where that balance point is, could be quite different for different people.
Unlike the bus, once a singles line has been established, a single skier waiting there always end up sitting with SOMEONE (unless the main queue is entirely empty). That someone maybe you and your wife.
On the other hand, even without a singles line, it's rare a single will be left alone on a 4 or 6 person chair. (there're times I would wish to be alone but it's rather rare I'm allowed to do so)
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Yes only you can't control that. If I've a limited time to ski that day I might quite reasonably be looking to get on first available chair as over 3 hours that that adds up to an extra lap.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I can understand the call for singles on Tbars or 2-3 man chairs. Maybe at a push 4. When it comes to six or 8 man chairs a singles line seems a bit pointless. All that is required for them is a 'fill all seats' sign. This only comes on when a queue is getting too large. Have seen this system in the Dolomites (it was an overhead board that lit up when necessary) and it worked well.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| No-one's is stopping you chatting but I can't see why a chairlift should be unlike any other form of public transport in that you expect to share with members of the public not enjoy private use thereof. Cockwombles having loud and self important phone calls on chairlifts should however be viewed with the same distain they get in a busy train carriage IMV. |
I agree people in groups should expect to share if they have space and someone wants to join. I also think if there's much a queue groups should split to fill every space rather than wait for a chair they can all fit on. But I don't think the analogy to a busy train carriage works when it comes to phone calls/chatting/general disruption. A busy train carriage will have 100+ people in it to be disturbed, whereas a full chair will have at most a handful of other people. I'd view it like making self-important phone calls in a train carriage with a few people on it - a definite no-no if it's a quiet carriage, but not a major issue elsewhere.
I quite like the idea of single lines, but as I go outside the school holiday weeks I've rarely seen a queue long enough to get annoyed over. And when I've been skiing alone I've never had much issue dashing through if I see a spare space and those at the front are waiting to take a chair together. I'd far rather things stay relaxed with groups allowed to wait and take chairlifts together if they want when there's no sizeable queue behind them. Though I do take issue with the groups that get right to the front before realising they need to wait for someone, blocking others getting on the lift they choose not to take.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Drogue wrote: |
I'd view it like making self-important phone calls in a train carriage with a few people on it - a definite no-no if it's a quiet carriage, but not a major issue elsewhere.
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Well not a major issue if you don't mind being viewed as a cockwomble.
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Now having read this article I can see what they mean.
But it is only quicker when there are large numbers of people unable to walk up. The minute that goes then its quicker to allow walking up. IME large queues at the bottom aren't that common on the lines I use eg Northern which has some of the deepest tunnels and therefore longest escalators.
This idea winds up Londoners including somewhat to my surprise my 14 year old daughter who thought it wholly outrageous, end of London and civilisation as we know it, madness, bad enough with tourists doing it etc etc
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