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Hallelujah! Lift-queue "Singles-Line" spotted in France!

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Poster: A snowHead
There was a singles-line set up today at the 6-man Chaux Fleurie chair in Avoriaz! Shocked I've never seen one outside of the US before (maybe NZ, can't really remember). Execution was a bit naff, a netted-off lane signposted "ligne-express" on the left of the faffage zone between the turnstiles and the gates. So if you entered through any of the right-most turnstiles you couldn't get across to it, and as you reached the gates it only allowed you to fill the two left-most seats if vacant, as you only had a couple of metres left to try to shuffle across.

But the thought was there! I'm afraid it's doomed to failure once the crowds arrive, there's just not enough space for US style forming-up into phalanxes of the magic number, or comprehension of the concept (I was the only person to use it in the time I was there). But the liftie was very proud of it, urging me to the front of the line with a big grin and enthusiastic gallic arm waving! Maybe it'll catch on.... Puzzled
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@shep, they occasional set up single riders lines in Les Arcs on at least a couple of the chairlifts.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@rob@rar, which ones, I'll look out for them?
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That sounds like real progress. But not needed round my way in mid January. used lots of lifts today but there were no queues
Blush
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I think before they get into anything the French need to sort out their lift loading.

It's my number one gripe about France, the totally crap lifties. I have and I'm sure anyone else who has been there have lost count of the number of times when standing in a lift line for 30 mins or more to load onto a 4 / 6 or 8 person chair
it's only half or less full.

The lines in France could be halved over night if they took the American approach of orderly lines, lifties who cared and resort owners who gave a toss about the people they have sold lift tickets to..........I think I have just remembered why I no longer ride in France.
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@shep, There is at least one permanently in Alpe d'Huez (on the Marmottes 1) but, sadly, understanding of the concept is not universal rolling eyes New Zealand definitely, they mark it all out with bits of string and are pretty keen with their "system" of forming into the correct numbers to fill a chair. Trying to use the "methode francais" does not work there, as I found out Smile
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ADH were doing this last year on the bust lift up to Folie Douce
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
I think the are one or two around Flaine.
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@rob@rar, with all these people moaning about France and vowing never to go there again we'll soon have no lift queues at all. wink Result!
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mikeelsa wrote:
ADH were doing this last year on the bust lift up to Folie Douce


Yes that is the Marmottes 1 Smile You are sort of right about the "bust" bit though. It was put in to replace small white bubbles that although maybe not so quick in theory , just plodded on all day with very few interruptions. The new thing seems to be forever slowing down ,a lot of the time I think because of people downloading from the Folie Douce but very often for no apparent reason.
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There are singles lines in Soldeu El Tarter, Andorra.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
sad thing is that they had them on a couple of key chairs in Courchevel in 1994 when I worked there but seemed to give it up.
It was great as a saissonaire - just used to lap the bumps under the Suisses fast 4 man on busy days.
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Delighted to hear it.

There has also been one on the right hand side of the Express Intrets in Avoriaz for a couple of years. It is next to the ski school only entrance and causes enormous bafflement firstly from ski school pupils who assume it's exclusive to them and secondly from groups of faffers who hold up affairs whilst they organise their group to fill the next chair but then find a randomer (me!) emerging down the empty singles line past 50 faffers and then occupying the right hand seat. Quite often they bale out and the chair ascends with yours truly tout seul. Not really the idea.

Nothing like the set up in the US with clearly marked singles lines and a two sided Y shaped approaches with a liftie standing in the middle shouting "How many?" and matching up groups to fill the chair.

We live in hope.
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Chamcham wrote:
@rob@rar, which ones, I'll look out for them?
Arpette and, I think, Derby. Only seen it at peak times.
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pam w wrote:
@rob@rar, with all these people moaning about France and vowing never to go there again we'll soon have no lift queues at all. wink Result!
Italy, Finland and Austria for me next, then back to France.
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The lifties just need to be more proactive. When they see a queue forming, they start pulling in folks to fill the chairs.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
There are (or were) some in the 3v.

I often ski alone and will happily push through to fill a chair if I can. Wink
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Given I was introduced to singles lanes in Scotland in the early 1970s the French have been remarkably quick on the uptake.

I blame Napoleon.
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under a new name wrote:
Given I was introduced to singles lanes in Scotland in the early 1970s ......


Ahh the remarkably civilised queuing system of the white lady T-bar !!!
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How quaint to finally catch up. Had them in all the NZ fields I've been to. Either pro-actively managed by lifties at busier lifts or self managed quite nicely at others. Mostly polite queuing there.
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Sadly I think its French culture not the lifties. They like queuing (look how many don't have doofers at the peage). They tried very hard on the Solaise Express to have 3 parallel lanes and they wouldn't move the broom handle until they got four, but of course this allowed a little room beyond where the disenfranchised party just waited anyway!! I got told off yesterday for wiggling passed a woman who failed to board!
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chocksaway wrote:
I got told off yesterday for wiggling passed a woman who failed to board!

But they would only get to see the back of you anyway. So seems worth it (wiggle past the faffer)
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Courchevel has had singles lines on several lifts for quite a number of years...
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They have a standing only line on the Olympic cable car in Val d'isere which allows you to jump the queue if it's busy, or you can wait and sit down.
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Gyro wrote:
I think before they get into anything the French need to sort out their lift loading.

It's my number one gripe about France, the totally crap lifties. I have and I'm sure anyone else who has been there have lost count of the number of times when standing in a lift line for 30 mins or more to load onto a 4 / 6 or 8 person chair
it's only half or less full.

The lines in France could be halved over night if they took the American approach of orderly lines, lifties who cared and resort owners who gave a toss about the people they have sold lift tickets to..........I think I have just remembered why I no longer ride in France.


I think it might be a cultural thing rather than lack of organisation and poor lefties. You ignore the possibility that the French may be quite happy with the current situation and would far rather leave a few chairs empty here and there than travel with stinky Englishmen, bossy Germans etc. Maybe they are happy to wait a few moments longer to travel in the style they prefer. When the lifts aren't too busy I tend to agree with them. If the overall wait is more than a few minutes, then fair enough. As I mentioned before on a different thread, not everyone sees skiing in the same light as most Snowheads. On a skiing obsessed forum you expect people to want to maximise every moment of skiing. If, however, you were discussing skiing and lift queues on somewhere like Mumsnet, or a dating website you might find people prioritised privacy/solitude over lift efficiency. Maybe I'm more relaxed about half-full lifts because I very, very seldom find myself in a lift queue longer than about 3 minutes.
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So the new singles-line here not quite as revolutionary as I thought, even in france. That being the case, and with reports of those which have come and gone, it seems the concept is unlikely to really gather momentum. Maybe ftz is correct, they're generally happy with how things are. In the old days of monster queues it used to annoy me, but with the power of the modern uplift the issue now is more about crowded pistes, with so much more of the day spent skiing rather than jostling. I do miss the mass jeering and shouted abuse from hundreds of angry french people whenever a 3-man departed with one person on board!

Often the lifties do make an effort to cajole people to fill the chairs when the queue is large, but the language barriers and cultural differences in EU seem to make the US system unworkable here. On balance, I think I prefer it that way Toofy Grin
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
The US system is generally remarkably stress free and when it cocks up it's notable that quite a lot of times it seems to be non natives involved e.g. Mexicans, Russians, French or Brits.
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I saw quite a few in and around schladming last week
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You know it makes sense.
foxtrotzulu wrote:
Gyro wrote:
I think before they get into anything the French need to sort out their lift loading.

It's my number one gripe about France, the totally crap lifties. I have and I'm sure anyone else who has been there have lost count of the number of times when standing in a lift line for 30 mins or more to load onto a 4 / 6 or 8 person chair
it's only half or less full.

The lines in France could be halved over night if they took the American approach of orderly lines, lifties who cared and resort owners who gave a toss about the people they have sold lift tickets to..........I think I have just remembered why I no longer ride in France.


I think it might be a cultural thing rather than lack of organisation and poor lefties. You ignore the possibility that the French may be quite happy with the current situation and would far rather leave a few chairs empty here and there than travel with stinky Englishmen, bossy Germans etc. Maybe they are happy to wait a few moments longer to travel in the style they prefer. When the lifts aren't too busy I tend to agree with them. If the overall wait is more than a few minutes, then fair enough. As I mentioned before on a different thread, not everyone sees skiing in the same light as most Snowheads. On a skiing obsessed forum you expect people to want to maximise every moment of skiing. If, however, you were discussing skiing and lift queues on somewhere like Mumsnet, or a dating website you might find people prioritised privacy/solitude over lift efficiency. Maybe I'm more relaxed about half-full lifts because I very, very seldom find myself in a lift queue longer than about 3 minutes.
Quote:


I'm not sure it is a cultural thing, and I do think it's bad, very bad organisation and very bad lifties.

I'm not ignoring the fact that the French may be quite happy with the current situation (not sure about current, it's been as bad for as many years as I can remember) I don't want to spend my holiday standing in a lift line because the idiot loading the lift can't be bothered to do his / her job. It's not just a few chairs here and there, it's most of the chairs, most of the time. I don't care if people prefer privacy / solitude over efficiency, the lifts are there to get people up the hill. Can you imagine the busses being run in a similar fashion.....sorry mate you can't get on this one, the guy at the back doesn't feel very sociable today, can you get the next one, it will be along in half an hour.

I'm sure if you asked most people.....almost all would prefer to fill the chairs to capacity and get up the hill ASAP
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Just sat in Geneva airport waiting for a flight back from a week in the PdS and, for that resort at least think the issue is with the skiers, not the country, it's culture or lifties - it's the bloody Brits!

The number of times I had to fight my way to the turnstiles through a crowd discussing how they lost Quentin, then work out who was actually moving to the chair and who was just standing telling each other to wait for Tamsin, then watch 3 chairs go empty while a group of 5 wait in the traps for Sebastian to shuffle in to the 6th trap...

It's like we lose the ability to queue when we cross the channel. Or maybe it's so we have something to complain about and instinctively blame on the French?
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@Mjit, I think your post slightly proves my point. Many other skiers look at skiing as more if a social experience. The people you were talking about were clearly quite happy to prioritise making sure they had everyone together/travelling as a group etc. over getting to the top as fast as possible. Obviously that will be irritating for others who feel differently, and especially so if those people are getting in the way, but if there is a majority who prefer this way of doing things then you can't blame the resort or lifties for being quite laissez faire about filling lifts.

I think a singles line is a good idea if there is a significant queue, but I don't think the lifties should work too aggressively to fill every lift.
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They have singles lines in St Anton,Lech & Zurs.
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Some of the science of queuing and uplifting here. Stop people walking up escalators and everyone moves faster!!
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jan/16/the-tube-at-a-standstill-why-tfl-stopped-people-walking-up-the-escalators
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Orange200 wrote:
Stop people walking up escalators and everyone moves faster!!


Not sure that's what it says. The article sets out that the number per hour increased but presumably it was quicker for most of the standers but slower for some of the walkers.
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@Orange200, Interesting article about the Tube experiment. It's no great surprise although I can see one huge flaw. What happens when it's not peak time? If everyone continues to stand on the escalator then the average speed slows and it becomes incredibly frustrating for those who wish to move faster.

Surely a better answer is not to tell everyone to stand, but to tell everyone to walk. If you can't, then take the lift instead.

I was always brought up with the mantra that "Only fat people stand on escalators". As obesity was a moral weakness up there with high treason, bestiality and eating in the street, I am now pathologically incapable of standing still on escalators. It hadn't stopped me weighing a few kg more than I'd like, but at least I don't eat in the street or fiddle with dolphins.
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@DJL, sorry you're right; I should have said "overall/on average"...

@foxtrotzulu, presumably it's like those roundabouts which have traffic lights that only work at peak time?
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foxtrotzulu wrote:
... I was always brought up with the mantra that "Only fat people stand on escalators". As obesity was a moral weakness up there with high treason, bestiality and eating in the street, I am now pathologically incapable of standing still on escalators. It hadn't stopped me weighing a few kg more than I'd like, but at least I don't eat in the street or fiddle with dolphins.

But there's no parallel with escalators and ski lifts at all. The whole point about the TfL trail was that they had a large number of "won't walk" people, so allowing them to stand in unused space makes sense.
For a ski lift, the situation's completely different, and a singles line is just one really easy way to fill that idle capacity.

I never stand on escalators and seldom use lifts, but I think not eating garbage is a bigger driver for avoiding obesity.
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@philwig, indeed.

A ski lift has a maximum capacity that is reached by having every seat filled.

An elevator, in theory, has no maximum capacity.

Different things entirely.
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....dont often offer my opinion on things on here but efficiency and queuing and filling up seats on lifts etc is a major gripe of mine. Reckon here in the EK with such good lift systems that if the queues were managed properly there would barely be any queues anytime (apart from perhaps to get up the mountain first thing in the am!).

As someone mentioned above there is a 'singles' style lane on the Olympique lift out of town.
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DJL wrote:
Orange200 wrote:
Stop people walking up escalators and everyone moves faster!!


Not sure that's what it says. The article sets out that the number per hour increased but presumably it was quicker for most of the standers but slower for some of the walkers.

It's a unique case, only apply to station that has long steep escalators (the problem being people can't walk up the whole length of the escalator).
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