I've been skiing a while, I'm very comfortable on piste in pretty much any condition, can do the steep and moguls (albeit without any style). I'm not particularly comfortable on ice or death cookies, but can cope with them and flat light does make me ski a bit more cautiously, but I manage to keep upright. I would grade myself on piste by SCGB standards as somewhere between silver-purple-ish, but I'm sure their assessment would put me at the bottom end of silver. I'm a 53 year old asthmatic, not particularly fit, but have good stamina obtained from my hill walking in summer, I can ski all day, sometimes skiing from first lift to last lift with a short lunch. Any suggestions.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Some of the SCGB learn to ski off piste weeks are very good indeed, particularly Flaine where the two resident instructors are top notch
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
There are many companies offering tuition starting at beginner off-piste level, all very good. Snoworks, Piste to Powder, ESF, evo2, mountaintracks, many more. Some of these only run courses on certain weeks and you have to book in advance. So before booking your next ski holiday, look at what courses available around time you want to go, and book your holiday around them.
Be careful some ski schools will advertise on their website off piste classes but when you turn up without advance booking they will tell you no course running that week
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Some top notch instruction would be a good starting point,
Phil Smith who runs Snoworks,
Simon Christy a Snowhead "offpisteskiing" who runs http://www.offpisteskiing.com
Alison Culshaw at http://www.offpiste.org.uk trains guides in skiing.
All specialise in off piste skiing.
If you find death cookies difficult you may be a bit of a tail swisher which could hold you back until it's sorted. As an asthmatic myself I find that gulping large amounts of very cold air can be an issue so have a couple of puffs of blue inhaler before I need it. The single thing I see holding people back is lack of fitness ie they can do a couple of decent turns then it all goes pete tong.
@Yorci, there's actually not a lot of difference in technique to skiing on and off piste. The turns are generally (OK, there are specialised elements like jump turns on very steep slopes) more or less the same technique as used on piste,
However, that needs to be good technique. (Modern fat skis make life a lot easier however).
So, good centred balance and the ability to confidently shift balance as required, a feel for the snow underfoot and a capability to fine tune movement to that and confidence in slowing the process down e.g. In powder.
I hope you don't mind but from your own description and comparing vis-a-vis the SCGB list, I'd put you at red-upper red-silver.
So good instruction so that your skills become all mountain anyway and gentle off piste instruction would be helpful. Lots of companies as mentioned above all with good reputations.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Thanks for all your advice, over the years there have been a couple of occasions where I've been caught out by a flash hit of the white fluffy stuff, while these are rare, would like to feel a bit more comfortable when faced with it. Have tried at the side of the piste but tend to eat snow when I loose sight of my skis, its as if I forget all the basics about posture and loading of the skis. Will check out some of the companies, many thanks guys.
After all it is free
After all it is free
Snowheads has an offpiste bash designed for those who are either getting into offpiste or starting out, through to those who are very experienced off piste with appropriate guides and instructors as appropriate. Bit more info from last year here http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=113807 - dates for next year are 12th to 17th March.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@Yorci, when you decide where you're going have a look at the local schools. Most do off piste but what @peanuthead says is true. I'm a big fan of British staffed companies like tdc (www.tdcski.com) and New Generation (www.skinewgen.com) but they will only run courses if they have 2 or more people booked in. But they will take private lessons, if you want to stump up the money. Or you could ask on here if anyone wants to join you, then book. And it always works to talk to some of the instructors on snowHeads.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
As above, it depends where you are. In back country Whistler I've seen people doing well with Extremely Canadian. They seem to have small groups lead by qualified locals who know the back country and can rip. I think they're now owned by the resort, which is a shame, but they seem to deliver a good experience, from what I've seen. They know the area well enough not to take guests on ice or other nasty things, unless you expressly want to play there and it's safe.
I think it depends a bit what you want to learn: ski technique/ mountain craft / other stuff.
Ski technique is one thing, and it is the same as on piste, although I do see many a probably-competent-at-a-resort people who can't deal with bottomless powder. On the other hand a decent racer will not have any issues. If you want to learn technique then you'd probably want a well qualified instructor more than a guide, depending on where you are and what the rules are. I don't know any guides who aren't well qualified instructors, but I believe it's possible in some countries.
Mountain Craft is harder to arrange to learn I think, but sounds like not what you're after.
Other things - transceiver training, self rescue, are fairly easy to find I think.
Personally I learnt powder on skis just by riding in it by the side of pistes. I didn't visit North America until I'd already figured it out, but because of the way resorts work there, it's generally much easier to find fresh powder, as "off piste" doesn't exist in the same way. Plus the geography means that some places are a way away from large populations so not quickly tracked out. So you could consider flying west.
My dentist learned to ski powder by hiring his own helicopter. That's a bit extreme. On the other hand I personally rode more powder in my 1st day in a heli than I rode in the 10 years it took me to earn enough to do it. A more modest approach would be daily catskiing - if you're sure you can actually get down through deep powder then you can get a significant amount of vertical for a reasonable outlay. I have commercial interests in some of these activities.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@Yorci, If you want to chat over what we offer and how I run my courses give me a call via the info below, we are very different to the normal off piste courses offered and totally flexible. And its free beer as well
@jbob, Thanks for the mention.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@philwig, [thread diversion] few of the guides (mostly French employed) I know are instructors. But most of them got into guiding through being climbers, which I think is pretty standard in Europe?
Do you ski? Learning to board off piste is, I understand, a different kettle of fish, although less so these days.
On which, @Yorci, rent increasingky fat skis until you can ski off piste. Buy a pair of same. Sorted.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Sounds right . That was precisely the problem which caused political difficulties in the early days of Canadian heli. People realised that ability to teach was more important than ability to climb Extreme. So you'd have some guy who could climb E4 but who couldn't help mediocre skiers to stop falling over on the corners. Political changes followed.
I'm a fairly serious climber myself, although it's not to me a sport which needs guides, except for old Italian blokes who want to kick rocks down, of course
Ski? With my eyes closed, backwards. I learned to ride the whole mountain on P9 slaloms. That's what I had. I thought Miller Softs were cheating.
I don't think learning to ski or snowboard or anything else is much different. There's a large marketing difference, and many novices have not yet learned everything, but I can't think of any professionals I deal with who can't ride anything you throw at them.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@philwig, P9s?
You old stalwart. An awesome ski.
Disagree on the shape of the learning curves though... You know, if it was easy to learn to etc...
I know one very pro UIAGM guide who is/maybe was a sponsored boarder who found skiing the hardest part of his qualification, never having done it before and having to learn in a very narrow window.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Indeed, it always seems incongruous Brit guides very good and enthusiastic climbers ( inc a few mates of mine)working hard to get their coveted guide's ticket to make a living walking punters up Mont Blanc and looking after off piste skiers / ski tourers who should learn enough to be self sufficient.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@On the rocks, why should skiers be any more self sufficient than punters walking up jaggy peaks?
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@under a new name, agreed, I think (but what was the question ). I think I also agree with @On the rocks that hard working self sufficient punting climbers shouldn't so enthusiastically covet the mates of very good, but incongruous Brit tour guides.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@moffatross, i'm not sure what the question was. I interpreted a suggestion that it was OK to guide punters up MB but frowned upon by the posters to guide them down (again?) on skis.
For me, the idea of "guided" climbing is a bit weird. The word "climbing" covers a lot of different things of course, but being dragged on a rope up a mountain isn't what I do personally. I guess I only know fairly serious climbers, some of whom became guides, but at least when I was there the average sporting climber didn't have ambitions to be led by old people up snow plods, if you see what I mean.
I think snow is different. "Off piste" was inherently dangerous and I didn't much fancy the idea of having to ride roped up. I didn't want to have to have to eyeball every drop. I didn't want to ski cut every slope, or even dig my own snow pits when I could be riding. I didn't want to walk up. I didn't want to learn the terrain well enough to be able to judge the local conditions. Hence I pay (and tip!) guides to take care of those things. That leaves me free to enjoy riding down.
So I'm just saying that perhaps the connection between rock ability and snow ability had more to do with the historic pattern of work in some parts of Europe than with anything which is useful to either summer or winter clients, in North America at least.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
philwig wrote:
For me, the idea of "guided" climbing is a bit weird. The word "climbing" covers a lot of different things of course, but being dragged on a rope up a mountain isn't what I do personally.
No guide I've ever met is going to drag anyone up anything. The Matterhorn guides are pretty famous for taking your money (around 1000 CHF), taking you up for 2-3 hours, telling you you aren't fit enough and turning around.
I know some good climbers who are fairly wealthy and will hire a guide because that way they will get more done on their limited holiday. Others get more of a buzz out of doing less (probably) but being self-sufficient. Plenty just don't have the money to hire guides. We are all different.
For me, the idea of "guided" climbing is a bit weird.
I know exactly what you mean and yet I have climbed with guides so I do get it.
I did a BMC Alpine Skills course back in 1990 when I was 20. This was aimed at climbers moving from classic British climbing background (mostly rock with a little winter climbing) and trying to equip them to climb big mixed and snow routes in the Alps. It involved a week of climbing with guides. Following that my partner and I climbed unguided. The course didn't stop us getting into a few dodgy scrapes but I dread to think what kind of mess we would have been in without it! Undoubtedly though the satisfaction and intensity of making your own decisions without someone there to hand you a "get out of jail free card" is much greater.
Apart from that learning scenario I do now understand other situations when people will climb with guides:
a) wanting to do long alpine routes close to their technical limit - normally you have to climb "within yourself" given all the other issues/hazards/fitness requirements. Personally I am happy doing easier climbs in a challenging environment but I can see why other people might sometimes want to take a different approach
b) aging former keen climbers who fancy doing something in the big mountains but aren't climbing enough to keep their skills polished. Course I don't know anyone like that
To be honest, it isn't that different from skiing with guides. I mean, guides are great for allowing you to access terrain that you don't know and letting you focus on the skiing rather than all the other stuff that comes with the environment but ultimately it is even more rewarding to make your own decisions and be accountable for dealing with hazards.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
[quote="dogwatch"]
philwig wrote:
The Matterhorn guides are pretty famous for taking your money (around 1000 CHF), taking you up for 2-3 hours, telling you you aren't fit enough and turning around.
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
). I think I also agree with 
