 Poster: A snowHead
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deleted - irrelevant
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Lisa
A rational explaination of your business, but how does the airfare cost effect the self-drive sector?
A genuine question, btw.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
A rational explaination of your business, but how does the airfare cost effect the self-drive sector?
A genuine question
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It doesn't, I guess, but in the French Alps (don't know about other bits) you'll pay a lot more for hotel or self-catering accommodation in the French school holidays. More than twice as much, often. Ski lessons are also more expensive though ski passes are the same price (rather surprisingly; I have often wondered why the usual elasticities are not applied to ski pass prices).
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Shimmy Alcott wrote: |
http://home-education.biz/education/deregister-or-be-damned/
I've just read this article. What a ridiculous state of affairs. |
I don't have kids. However, I find all of this 6 or so pages a bit annoying. I wish I could have went on holiday at the cheaper time and experienced more, rather than stay at home in normal more expensive holiday time.
Do I remember what I was taught at 9 years old. YES (I have a good memory)..... was it useful to me.........NO!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@Shimmy Alcott, on the face of it that is, indeed, ridiculous. However, the communications with the school seem to have been extremely sketchy. The mother sent an email, "didn't hear back" - then sent another about taking work for the child and "didn't hear back". Then off she went. You have kids at school; I've had kids at school. Can you imagine taking the kids out for 3 weeks in term time without actually communicating with the school? Communication is a two way business. If you send a very important email and don't get any reply why not pick up the phone, or walk in there for a chat and tell them about the terrific trip you have planned?
There might be two sides to this story.
Nobody at our local primary schools would take the risk of de-registering - they'd be most unlikely to get their place back, they all seem over-subscribed.
What I was taught at school at 9 years old was mostly reading, writing and rithmetic. Seems to have been quite useful, really, in the ensuing 59 years, though it was extremely boring at the time. And learning about rods, poles and perches hasn't actually been terribly useful.
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@Lisa_BrentaSki,
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At Half Term, the hotels cost us the same (Following a good deal of haggling at the end of this season), so do the lift passes, equipment, transfers, staff costs, etc. So the only reason the costs go up is the profiteering by the airlines.
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I'm not sure it's quite fair to say 'the only reasons costs go up is profiteering by the airlines'. Having flexible pricing is not the same as profiteering. Pretty much every hotel on the planet now does it. They adjust prices to stimulate/match demand. Is it wrong for shops to have sales?
Easyjet make a net profit margin of 10.8%
Ryanair make 15%
BA make 4% EBIT margin
Lufthansa make 2.5% net profit margin
None of those are exactly excessive. If you were to shave off the top how low do you think those margins would be?
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Why is it that people who otherwise generally support the "capitalist system" (even if only on the basis that all the others are even worse) talk about "profiteering" when an individual or organisation operating in a competitive market sell their goods for the best price they can get?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@pam w, I'm sure you've said here and in other related threads about just letting the school know your child is going to be absent rather than wasting both our own and the schools time filling out paperwork when the absence won't be authorised anyway?
The mother did exactly that. She wasn't surprised to get nothing back as she knew they couldn't authorise the holiday.
It's actually a really good thing that she did email the school as she has proof of that email. Had she called them then she wouldn't have had a record of the notification...at least she has that to go to Court with on the 16th.
Regardless, It's a disgrace that both parents are now going to have to appear in court...the school should have backed down once they realised they'd missed the email in the spam folder.
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I'm sure you've said here and in other related threads about just letting the school know your child is going to be absent rather than wasting both our own and the schools time filling out paperwork when the absence won't be authorised anyway?
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Not exactly. I've said just to inform the school that you are going on holiday - to tell the truth. If there is a form to fill in, then of course you fill it in. The "unnecessary paperwork" I objected to a week or so ago was a parent who sent in a request for authorised absence form, knowing it would be refused then, when it was refused, informed the school he was going anyway. That just struck me as a waste of resources, really.
If I said something as momentous as "I'm taking my daughter out of school for 3 weeks to go backpacking" I would most definitely expect an acknowledgement. It seems commensensical to follow it up - "Did you get my email?". We all know that emails are far from being a 100% reliable form of communication - I found something in my junk folder just a few days ago, having already run the company concerned to query whether they'd received my online order.
On the face of it, the situation is ridiculous, but I'd like to know both sides of the story before I'd consider signing a petition! There is probably a good deal of "back history" which we just don't know about. If the school have had a lot of hassle from that mother in the past (and there are always a handful, as you know) they are possibly not at liberty to say so.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@pam w, unfortunately there isn't a separate form to fill in to avoid the "un-necessary paperwork", there is only one type of form...so if you fill this in then you have set off the beuracratic time wasting. For my daughters' absence I dealt with the primary school and the secondary school. I filled out the form for both schools. The primary school is small, Head has an open door policy onto the school reception/office. He hears me ask for the form, gives me a tut tut, says it can't be authorised but to enjoy the holiday. I'm Chair of the PTA so we are reasonably close. I got no formal response, I thought nothing of not getting a response, I didn't expect one. Had I not seen him the day I asked for the form I still wouldn't have worried about a non-response to the form...I've never had a response before and had kids at that school for 10 years. Not one response.
The secondary school was different. Filled out the form, then got a letter by post saying it would not be authorised and I could be fined (naughty that, as it was only four days). I didn't respond to that letter so when we were on holiday the school phones me...and text me. I messaged my Mum (facebook so no phone charges) and asked her to call the school and tell them that I had informed Eve would be absent and that she would be returning to school on the Friday. As per the form. The school said that it was an unauthorised absence so they had to phone.
Two schools, two completely different responses.
Schools use emails for lots of communication these days, we get our weekly newsletters and other notifications via email...they aim to save on paper. most information now comes via text. If the school can't properly monitor its email then I don't think they should be taking parents to court as a result of it.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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If the school can't properly monitor its email then I don't think they should be taking parents to court as a result of it.
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If that's what they are doing, and they wouldn't have done had the email not gone into junk, then I entirely agree. As I said from the outset, it does seem stupid on the face of it. But we don't know the whole story. I try to avoid too much knicker twisting on the basis of what I read even in moderately respectable newspapers, let alone anti-school website.
Do you really feel that you know enough about this case to make a judgement?
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@pam w, I've read the letter that the Mum wrote and the response she had from the Council...based on that and that I believe her when she says she sent the email to the school...then I'm happy to sign a petition against her and her husband being taken to Court...this should be dealt with at a MUCH lower level. The Mum States there was no other problem with attendance and she has not received a FPN for this absence or any other.
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You know it makes sense.
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@foxtrotzulu, and most of their profits this year were due to fuel prices.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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The letter arrived this morning. A good result.
She can have 25th to 29th Jan off school due to "family working arrangements".
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Lisa_BrentaSki, 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Lisa_BrentaSki, authorised?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Shimmy Alcott, sounds like it.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Yes it was authorised. I don’t know if I’ll have to go through the same procedure each year. I’ll wait and see.
I was talking yesterday about to someone I know. They own a pub so can only get away during the quieter periods; they normally just take their kids out of school (a different school to mine) and pay the fine. Now they have had a letter saying that if they do this again the school will apply for a court injunction.
It's got a little crazy. In some case maybe the schools are acting a little more like an enforcement body than an educational one.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I've always wondered how a family from school have so many weekends away - starting at lunchtime on a Friday :/ (facebook updates). Today I found out how. They take the kids out of school at 1.30pm - so the kids have been in registration for the afternoon. They then just sign a form to take the kids out early, but the kids are still registered as attending.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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The girl in that article had an attendance of less than 94% which is not ideal to start with.
I agree that schools focus on this to much, but they are marked down for low figures, ideally need to be 97-98%
If you had 3 weeks off a year from work ( in addition to holidays) how would your boss feel?
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Interesting. According to the article, you only need to ensure your children attend school "regularly".
Like, once a week?
It seems a standard English school year is 195 days (http://resources.woodlands-junior.kent.sch.uk/customs/questions/schterms.html)
So a 94% attendance record means this child has missed out on 11 days: more than 2 weeks!
Interesting . . .
But then, Isle of Wight is another country 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I would never take my children out of school for a holiday.
Perhaps this is because I pay for their education and I see education as very high on my priority list. Taking time off school lowers the standards that you are setting for your children and this can permeate through life. If they see that education is something that you can opt out of then there is more chance that they will do so. I don't think that this is giving out the correct message.
I also just don't get the "but holidays are so much more expensive during term time" argument. We live in a free market economy, supply and demand dictates prices. Nobody has a devine right for a holiday abroad. If you (or I) can't afford it - don't go.
Lights fuse and retires to a distance.......
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Joy Zipper, i think most here think the same way you do.
But it does depend on which days you choose to miss.
The beginning of term is an important time: timetable is set, you find your place, friends are found, enemies noted. Taking children out on these days is a capital crime.
But the last couple of days of term are often hazy empty times where nothing much happens. Taking children out one or two days before the end of term makes for minimal damage.
Half Term is tricky.
20 years ago my daughter was at a private school where the February half term was just a long weekend: term restarted on the Wednesday.
So with grovelling letters each year ("just this once", "important family time", etc.) we would take her out for the whole week so we could go skiing (wife was a teacher).
Eventually the school changed its timetable and Feb half term became a whole week.
But looking back i realise we (mum and dad) were just being selfish. So it goes.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Jonpim wrote: |
| enemies noted |
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Joy Zipper,
But what about schools taking kids during term to theme parks ? ( This happens pretty much each year at our kids school ).
Which is better that or a parent who is not loaded can not afford the price in say the summer hols as an example we used to go during the May half term depending on what was going on at school either 2 weeks before or a week either side, we did not sit on a beach but went to many world heritage sites. Their teachers who we get on great with do not think in a week at school they could learn what they do in just a one day visit during our holiday.
Not saying people should have a right to take kids out during term time but equally the school and LEA should not have the right to say no to all requests. It can be used as a means to encourage better attendance. It can increase dialog in class, ie the pupil talking about their experience visiting a world heritage site rather than the class just reading about it.
Family holidays can help a family bond taking kids out is not a blanket response it is wrong you have to weigh up the benefits and also the negative aspects of both. You could be on a very low income yet your childs friends parents have no money issues and spending a few thousand on a family holiday is nothing. You can not afford to go during school holidays you explain this to the child but even though they say they understand some will still feel resentment that they can nopt have a holiday especially if at another time in the year the family could afford a holiday but school say no.
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I would never take my children out of school for a holiday.
Perhaps this is because I pay for their education and I see education as very high on my priority list. Taking time off school lowers the standards that you are setting for your children and this can permeate through life. If they see that education is something that you can opt out of then there is more chance that they will do so. I don't think that this is giving out the correct message.
I also just don't get the "but holidays are so much more expensive during term time" argument. We live in a free market economy, supply and demand dictates prices. Nobody has a devine right for a holiday abroad. If you (or I) can't afford it - don't go.
Lights fuse and retires to a distance.......
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When we were little we used to go on holiday during term time, my parents always sat down with my teachers and headmaster in advance and got a list of all the work I'd need to do, so I often ended up doing maths in a hotel room aged 6! In addition I always had to do a little project and write about my experiences then hand it into the teacher.
I'd argue that approach by my (primary) school was far more productive than the current stance and dare I say more educational too?
A short amount of missed work is easily caught up anyway (or should we stop kids taking time off for the flu)?
A reasonable compromise to me would be to ensure all work is caught up whilst on holiday and/or only those with an attendance record of 9x.xx% be allowed to take the time off.
It seems like a far better approach to me and I have a job that being realistic allows me time off in the holidays, I feel far more sorry for those that genuinely can't 
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You know it makes sense.
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Do we want to produce automatons that have a lot of knowledge or do we want well rounded young people who are sensitive, caring, benevolent, humble, happy, cultural, committed, loyal etc etc. I'd like to think that if my kids saw someone being bullied that they would step in and try and prevent it rather than taking out their phone and filming it.
I think we are in great danger of losing sight of what the purpose of education is.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Frosty the Snowman wrote: |
| I think we are in great danger of losing sight of what the purpose of education is. |
It's to make sure kids pass lots of exams so that nice Mr Gove can look good. Isn't it?
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Ironically, I actually want to take my 8 yr old daughter at 1/2 term as I see it as her holiday and she not only enjoys the skiing but loves the ski school and all the other kids that she makes friends with. not going at 1/2 term means there would be far fewer other kids around and she wouldn't enjoy the holiday as much.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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The secondary school that she will go to has a school ski trip, in term time!, but parents can't take kids out to go on a family ski trip.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Before too much breath is wasted on righteous indignation here can I remind people that if the read the "code of conduct " on unauthorised absence for their LEA instead of the Daily Mail they might find there is no problem. Hampshire, for example (my area) allows 20 sessions, 10 days, for a family holiday, not more than once a year. Doesn't help my daughter though as she and her OH are teachers.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Joy Zipper, I think what you meant to say is that you "pay extra for your children's education" than the most of us, as our children's education is only funded through the taxes we all pay!!!.
This is obviously your choice to make, if you feel that the education provider where you live is not satisfactory and good luck to you if you can afford it. fortunately, where we live the majority of the state schools are exceptional and well funded so we have no need to go private.
Although I disagree with you when you talk about "holidays abroad", as the school holiday price hike rise seems to be applicable to holidays taken in this country as well, try taking a midweek break to somewhere like centre parc's during half term week the costs will make your eyes water (well mine anyway). This obviously affects the majority less well off, more than others, as it means they can barely afford a holiday for their children.
I think what the debate should be about is if half term school holidays should be regional as in France, and spread over two or 3 weeks.
I must admit I always found it ironic when I worked for a tour operator in the alps is that the only school children who stayed in our chalet outside half term weeks, i.e. the discounted weeks, were from the private schools who could seem to decide when their term times started and finished.
my problem is that when we booked our feb 16 half term skiing break early in april, our LEA website was showing all our schools were on an inset day on the Monday after half term so I booked our travel arrangements to arrive back on the Monday evening before returning to school on the Tuesday, now one of our daughters schools have withdrawn the inset day, so I am unsure where we stand!!!!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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It's just another tax, it is abused by schools but its intention was admirable at the start. Rather than worrying about Charlie missing a day, or a week, here and ther it was intended to stop truancy. Cost it into your child's education and family holiday and then decide.
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Shouldn't have taken so many days off school I can see a grammatical error. Or is that just the vino? Hell I'll never know know
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@terrygasson, if you are unsure where you stand about the non-inset day have a look at the relevant Code of Conduct. Should make it crystal clear; the policy isn't down to the school.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| Frosty the Snowman wrote: |
| I think we are in great danger of losing sight of what the purpose of education is. |
It's to make sure kids pass lots of exams so that nice Mr Gove can look good. Isn't it? |
It's the nice Miss Morgan now. About as qualified as Gove.
But the point is a good one. Constant short-termism as one SoS after another feels they need to make their mark in the 3 years before they're shifted to Environment or the House of Lords. Estelle Morris was the last decent one.
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Estelle Morris was the last decent one.
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Last one who also had practical experience of actually teaching as well - she taught Humanities and PE at an inner-city school in the Midlands if I remember correctly. She started teaching the same time I did back in September 1974, I stayed at my inner-city school for 20 years, she climbed the ladder and became a politician!
Jacqui Smith was also a teacher but in a more "genteel" environment I believe in Worcestershire (or was it Warwickshire?) - funnily enough she taught economics, eventually rising to Head of Economics which is probably why she was so bad at filling in her expenses claim forms (or not depending on your point of view!  )
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