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BASI sued for £500 000

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
rjs wrote:
philwig wrote:
As far as race trained instructors is concerned, that's a bit like getting Lewis Hamilton to teach you to drive

Not really. Why would having learned extra ski techniques turn someone into a bad instructor ?

Continuing with your analogy: Race drivers vary a lot, some are known to be good at developing a car, some less so. I would expect someone like Jensen Button to be quite good at teaching driving.

A counter analogy: Would you want to prevent schoolteachers from teaching a subject if they had a degree in it ?

I don't think anyone has argued that ex-racers should not be allowed to teach.
ski holidays
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I wonder if I can be bothered to resurrect my argument about the dual path to professional music qualifications in this country...no, I got flamed in BZK for that already, probably not worth more hassle.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
laundryman wrote:

I don't think anyone has argued that ex-racers should not be allowed to teach.


Correct. They are but one skill set in the range of good teachers. They are not the be all and end all of teaching. If TTT gets something out of being coached by an ex-racer then it's the right choice for her as it sounds like she has a lot still to learn. Finding someone you can relate to is important. It's a really closed mind set that says only ex-racers are any good though.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
@skison,
Quote:

Finding someone you can relate to is important. It's a really closed mind set that says only ex-racers are any good though.

+1
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
I don't think it's at all reasonable for the moderators of a forum which permits "anonymous" usernames to publicly post inferences about a user's location and place of work based on their IP address (if that's indeed what's happened), unless it's to "punish" the user for some perceived transgression of the rules - and even then, it would depend greatly on the particular situation; I think it was reasonable in the case of the SCGB forum thread for example. That's just standard netiquette.

[Edit to note that the posts to which the above referred have since been deleted]


Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Tue 12-05-15 18:47; edited 2 times in total
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Pyremaniac, +1, looks like bullying to me.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@Pyremaniac,
Quote:

I don't think it's at all reasonable for the moderators of a forum to publicly post inferences about a user's location and place of work based on their IP address (if that's indeed what's happened)
Actually, I suppose I agree with that. But to be truly safe and professionally whiter than white, it's MUCH better not to post on social media at all, so I think that TTT has to that extent been the architect of his own (perceived) misfortune.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Hurtle wrote:
@Pyremaniac,
Quote:

I don't think it's at all reasonable for the moderators of a forum to publicly post inferences about a user's location and place of work based on their IP address (if that's indeed what's happened)
Actually, I suppose I agree with that. But to be truly safe and professionally whiter than white, it's MUCH better not to post on social media at all, so I think that TTT has to that extent been the architect of his own (perceived) misfortune.


Oh, sure, I wholeheartedly agree with you on that! I never cease to be amazed by what people write online!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Quote:

Would you want to prevent schoolteachers from teaching a subject if they had a degree in it ?

Apples and pears; a degree - even a Ph D - is hardly the equivalent of the ET. More like the equivalent of BASI 1. Though some people with specialist Ph Ds (Basi 3?) are not good at explaining the key aspects of their thesis to non-specialists and would therefore make hopeless school teachers.
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Pyremaniac wrote:
I don't think it's at all reasonable for the moderators of a forum which permits "anonymous" usernames to publicly post inferences about a user's location and place of work based on their IP address (if that's indeed what's happened).


I ran with the information published because TTT confirmed his situation, rather than requesting that DG Orf remove his posting,

DG Orf made his posting at 12.40 (snowHeads time) which is 13.40 UK time.

It's now 2 hours later, so presumably the Mod Collective are comfortable (in agreement) with what's occurred and have, indeed, executed some form of 'punishment'.

I sense that this forum is falling apart a bit for other reasons, but we'll come on to that.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@David Goldsmith,
Quote:

I sense that this forum is falling apart a bit for other reasons, but we'll come on to that
Please, please, PLEASE don't!
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Hurtle wrote:
@David Goldsmith,
Quote:

I sense that this forum is falling apart a bit for other reasons, but we'll come on to that
Please, please, PLEASE don't!


@Hurtle +1
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
David Goldsmith wrote:

This forum maintains the highest ethical standards, as regards legitimate use of time/electricity/computers in private or authorised use ... as you know.


Since we are maintaining the highest ethical standards, perhaps it would be prudent to edit any posts which might appear "bullying". I'm sure that if TTT wanted to reveal both identity and employer then it would be information volunteered.

Glass houses and stones spring to mind ... just saying
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
rjs wrote:
Why would having learned extra ski techniques turn someone into a bad instructor ?
If you're going to selectively quote me then you need to read the actual post, which suggested nothing at all like that. That would be stupid. I may look stupid, but you'd be unwise to rely on it being so.

Certainly the price, if not necessarily the quality of driving instruction would go up should it be limited to the winners of F1 races. QED.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
philwig, Then be more careful with what you write.

A "race trained" instructor is not equivalent to a F1 race winner, the Eurotest pass level is nowhere near that needed to win even the lowest level FIS races.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@David Goldsmith, hello - one of the alleged 'new people' (I'm not )who was 'socked' by TTT for being a troll a few pages back....(because I disagreed with TTT but agreed with some other people, who also disagreed with TTT). Not great, but hey ho, what a funny forum! There were even little threats of outing 'us' with IP addresses. Now, all seems to have got a bit burley for TTT out there. don't agree with TTT's party line much still .....but billy not a boy/Glass houses is right. Respect to you for using your name, others keep anonymity if they like
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
rjs wrote:
Then be more careful with what you write.


It's unclear to me precisely how that would stop you making things up which I didn't say.
ski holidays
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
What is going on?
Has DG Orf scared TTT away?
It appears that DG Orf's post & TTT's response have been deleted.

Where are we going to get or entertainment Puzzled
ski holidays
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Yes.
DG Orf revealed one or two things about TTT, who is a classic troll (anonymous stirrer, making endless negative comments about named people who will give evidence under oath in court, unlike TTT)
TTT confirmed those facts (rather than asking DGO to remove the revelations).
I then got a PM from TTT asking me to remove the pasted postings of DGO and TTT.
It seemed reasonable for the Mods to deal with the matter, should that be required, so that's what was communicated to TTT.
The Mods acted.

Let's remember that this thread is about a law case, which could be quite substantial. It's about real people, a great deal of impact on their lives, and an outcome which may involve witness boxes and testimony from real people. Not trolls, publishing stuff in bad faith, abusing the privilege of anonymity.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
You couldn't make this up.

Someone posts very vague information alluding to someone else.

That someone else confirms it.

Then PMs a quasi-random individual to complain about it. Presumably complaining about themselves at the same point.

It all disappears.
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I keep running out of popcorn
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
under a new name wrote:
You couldn't make this up.

Someone posts very vague information alluding to someone else.


But we are skiers. We know all about slippery slopes.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Quote:

What is going on?

Has DG Orf scared TTT away?


TTT realized the rubbish they spout might actually be linked back to them after a kind person let us all know they work? and most of their posts are from ?. Oops did I say something I wasn't meant to Shocked


Last edited by After all it is free Go on u know u want to! on Wed 13-05-15 16:20; edited 1 time in total
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
TTT, has not been a troll, if anyone cared to read all the posts they made.

Public outing is a form of bullying.

I hope you are pleased with yourselves.

Some of the BASI members I know have been interested in the "official line" newspeak that she pontificates.


Sad Puzzled
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
@geeo, you did, as armed with such precise information I can work out exactly who TTT is.

TTT you are Bernd Pischetsrieder and I claim my €5.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
I'm Spartacus
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Sorry chaps I was away all yesterday afternoon, I deliberately gave some (but not all) the info from TTT's IP address since there seemed to be an issue as to just where they were based, that info has now been removed, there a large number of big international companies with offices in that country so I'm not sure what good that will do anyone TTT, has assured me that they are not doing anything wrong (due to work regs) by posting during office hours and I have no reason not to believe them.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Je Suis D G Orf

(wait...is that right Puzzled )
snow report
 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@D G Orf, I thought you were a little off-piste in disclosing anything about a poster from back office rights you have as a Mod. But as TTT didn't mind, its no big deal.

( Another mod/techy once helped me to tie together 3 posters' usernames to one individual from IPs (one is banned). But that was PM'd stuff and has stayed that way. )

By the way, I much prefer your D G rather than the other one !! wink
Thanks for your efforts as a mod and poster.
Oh and I post from work too. If was busy, I wouldn't, but I'm not so.....
ski holidays
 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Dubaian wrote:
TTT didn't mind


If he* didn't mind, why did he* PM me, twice?

Perhaps he* PMed the mods, too.

----------------

* alternatively: she
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@David Goldsmith, It does not matter. The request was made to remove the information which was not volunteered. End of story.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
geeo wrote:
Quote:

What is going on?

Has DG Orf scared TTT away?

Oops did I say something I wasn't meant to Shocked


Yes, and personally I don't know why you felt the need to repeat it. It's up to the individual concerned to decide whether or not to reveal that information online or not. It's not at all classy to "out" them (whether they be enemy or friend). Sadly, this kind of thing is all too common in the Twitter age, humpf.
ski holidays
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@Pyremaniac, agreed, but there are degrees of outing and, as has been explained, what was revealed was really de minimis.
ski holidays
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Hurtle wrote:
@Pyremaniac, agreed, but there are degrees of outing and, as has been explained, what was revealed was really de minimis.


I still think it is a form of bullying, and should not be tolerated. If someone chooses to comment anonymously then that is their prerogative.
ski holidays
 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@billy not a boy, I am not against anonymity, but refusing to disclose which country you're living in? And repeatedly making patronising reference to a 'profession' and then not disclosing it? And hiding behind all this to smear other people? No, I don't think the alleged 'outing' came close, even though I don't in principle condone outing.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
@Hurtle makes essentially fair points there. It came across as a shot across the bow of TTT ... a ship with very few passengers.
ski holidays
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Hurtle wrote:
No, I don't think the alleged 'outing' came close, even though I don't in principle condone outing.


Agreed, however, this is a moot point.

The "outing" was carried out by someone whom has been given the responsibility of a forum moderator, part of that responsibility is maintaining the integrity of the forum itself; abusing one's "powers" by revealing information which had been explicitly withheld by an anonymous commenter is not a responsible action.

Whether or not TTT chose to divulge information about where she lives and works is entirely up to her. Much like I am not telling anyone where I live and work. It has no bearing on the subject matter, and I would expect everyone to respect my choice not to give out that information.

I too am intrigued by the apparent contradictions found within TTT's posts, and with the apparent lack of inclination to change views. I have my own ideas about whom this individual is (hence my referring to the poster as "she" and "her"), but I could well be wrong, and since anonymity is not outlawed within this forum, I respect that and will not post on here whom I believe it to be. I have expressed my desire to learn whom this person is and whether or not my suspicions are true or false, but that does not give me (or anyone else) the right to post such (involuntarily obtained) information within this forum.

If the incident in question were not deemed to be a misuse of information/resources, the posts would not have been taken down.

Hurtle wrote:
... but refusing to disclose which country you're living in?


I'm not entirely sure anyone even asked that question directly.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
I'm going to post in the defence of D G Orf, having been involved in this forum for far too long.

TTT really pushed his luck to the limit. DGO took an instinctive action, probably because he was as fed up with TTT as anyone else.

The incident is over now.

Anyone want to be a moderator? I was one for a while on sH, in the early days. It's not an easy task.
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@billy not a boy, the difference is that you are not, on the one hand, decrying xenophobia and, on the other, constantly making disparaging remarks about British skiers. That totally begged the question of where he lived, or at least skied. I did ask this question, if not expressly, then implicitly, in connection with his 'I cannot speak for France' comment.

Similarly, you are not for ever making reference to your occupation in support of your arguments: if someone does this, he or she must expect to be questioned on the matter.

As I said, he was largely the architect of his own misfortune.

For the record, I am not remotely interested in who this person is, or in his or her gender.
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David Goldsmith wrote:
... probably because he was as fed up with TTT as anyone else.


And for that David you think that it is perfectly okay to abuse a position of authority? Where is the line drawn for you? Is there even a line?
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