 Poster: A snowHead
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I *need* new touring skis. I demoed Down CD6 skis at the start of the year and really liked them, particularly for touring as they felt very light compared to my boyfriends Whitedot directors which I skied on the same day although looking at the spec there is only 300-400g per ski difference. I've also demoed quite a few Blizzard skis recently and really fancy the sound of the Cochise although it is probably too heavy for touring.
They do the Scout though, which is around 2kg per ski @177cm, they also do the Dakota which is the woman's version, same weight. The Downs I skied were 1.8kg/ski @ 184cm (or this years model, CD107 is).
Price is Dakota< Scout<CD107
Down also do the 102L which is only 1.4kg/ski, how light do you want to go without sacrificing fun on the way down? I'm not fast going up or particularly fit so need all the help I can get. I've got Marker F10s and Cochise boots though so not the lightest set up anyway, how do you decide how much of a weight saving is worthwhile?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I've set my Mrs up with Scott Cruisair 169 along and Vipec 12 tech bindings and along with her Scott Celeste boots, that's a very very light set up !!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I've just gone for Scott Fly'airs with Vipec 12 bindings I'm off for New Year to try them.
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@OwenM, make sure you have the bindings adjusted very well as per the documentation - it is very very difficult, far worse than adjusting the derailleur (gears) on a push bike.
That said have now done three outings on them and my wife used hers yesterday on the piste to get the hang of them and she was very happy.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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The easiest way to save weight is to switch to Dynafit / Tech bindings.
Then get some lighter boots.
.... Once you have done both of these then maybe worry about the weight of the ski.
With tech / pin bindings you don't have to lift any part of the binding during the stride.
What most people don't realise is that it is "lifted weight per stride" that make the biggest difference to touring efficiency.
If you have a frame binding (marker duke, fritschi diamir) then you are lifting an extra 1kg of weight for each and every stride.
Over a 1000m skin that is a huge amount of extra effort.
It always makes me laugh when I see Marker Dukes mounted onto Carbon skis - what a waste....
You can get some super light touring skis these days (1-1.5kg) that will perform well on the way down.
However as ever with touring its always some compromise between the up and down.
So the correct answer depends on the type of skiing you do.
The real beauty of a tech binding is that you can put them on a heavier (1.5-2kg) freeride ski and still climb fast enough to do 1000-1500m days 
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| Haggis_Trap wrote: |
| It always makes me laugh when I see Marker Dukes mounted onto Carbon skis - what a waste.... |
you should come skiing with my mate Paul sometime. he likes Dukes on his carbon skis because the uphill wouldn't be much of a challenge to him otherwise 
anyways, as Haggis Trap says, it totally depends on what you are doing. i guess the questions to ask yourself are whether weight a problem with your existing skis? of so, have you already got tech bindings and light-ish boots? finally, what sort of touring do you aspire to - an hour or two off a lift for a long descent suggests choose the skis you like most regardless of weight; lots of vert/hut to hut tours suggests a bit more bias to lightweight versus skiing performance
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@Arno, ah yes, Paul...he could've done with adding some sandbags to his backpack as well!
I'd add that the lighter the ski, the more effort it is in crud compared to a heavier freeride ski. In decent snow you don't lose much performance at all. This assumes that torsional (and longitudinal) stiffness is maintained using carbon or similar. If not, they'll feel like noodles. FWIW I ski on Scott Powd'airs which are definitely at the light end of the spectrum for a 100 mm waisted ski.
@Weathercam, mechs are a doddle
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| Haggis_Trap wrote: |
The easiest way to save weight is to switch to Dynafit / Tech bindings.
Then get some lighter boots.
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Nope, cut down on tartiflette and the après beers first - than maybe think about the kit 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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3-400grams per ski is a pretty noticeable saving. I think ideally - if you're regularly doing much over 1000m vert - you want to be as close to 2kg per ski (or under) if possible. Even with dynafits.
I'd buy dynafits first over new skis though, as that's where you'll see the biggest difference.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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F10s aren't ridiculously heavy. if you're generally happy with your ski/binding set-up I'd see how it goes with the new boots before jumping on other kit, also, F10s are a bit less of a faff to put on/take off and will ski a bit more nicely on hardpack
for reference, my skis are quiverkillered so I can use marker touring bindings and dynafits. i stick with the markers if i will be using lifts at all. skinning with Dynafits is a bit better IME but not such a great experience that it trumps all other things
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Is this some sort of MAMIL cycling thread. I spend the spring and summer worrying about whether weight will slow me down going up the Col du Telegraphe on my bike, dreaming about the winter when physics is in my favour. The more weight the better in the winter!
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@alti - dude, we're talking about the up here. 
It's all been said but the weight saving on your feet is huge. Also getting a good skinning technique is worth it's weight, there's an awful lot of people that clomp up mountains lifting everything.
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You know it makes sense.
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As others have said, it depends what you are doing. I'd fit skis with a touring binding on into three basic categories:
1) One ski quiver/resort touring ski. Either a good all rounder or a powder ski with a frame binding. Intended to ski lift served off piste/tour up to 300m vert from the lifts. I've just replaced my ageing Lhasa Pow (112 under foot, tip rocker, 2100g per ski) + Duke combo for a Whitedot Ranger (2100 g per ski or so, tip rocker, 108 under foot. We'll see how the Whitedots do and whether my unfit desk jockey butt can keep up with the skis.
2) Day touring ski. E.g. I'm in La Grave, the snow sucks off the lifts. I'm aiming for 1000m plus on the Lauteret and am hunting for powder or corn snow depending on where we are in the cycle. For me that's 100-110 underfoot, pref with Dynafits. Target weight 1500-1700g per ski. Tip rocker.
3) Hut touring. I am a fat desk jockey so I don't own something specifically for hut touring. I use my #2 ski for this if the occasion arises and hope I don't slow my friends down too much.
In your situation, if it's more #1 then stuff the weight and pick something you like the look of. If it's more #2 then aim to strip as much weight off the ski as you sensibly can and add something like the Volkl Nunatuq, some of the Scotts, the Whitedot Ranger CL (Spyderjon had some of the 13/14 going cheap last time I asked) etc to your demo list. QK them for the F10s and put a tech binding on there when you've got the spare cash.
That said, this is a highly personal thing and this is just what's worked for me in the past.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Not changing my boots as they fit and don't hurt and only got them at the start of the year, will go dynafit eventually but I don't actually have skis to put the dynafits on so...
The problem is I really want 2 new pairs of skis.
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Poster: A snowHead
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lynseyf, How tall are you ? If you are less than the average male height then some of the stuff that you will want to carry will be proportionately heavier for you than it would be for a guy, any weight you can save on other things can only help.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@rjs, 5'9 so pretty average guy height.
I think I'm leaning towards the Dakota now which is 2kg/ski. I will mainly be touring in Scotland so not massive heights but would like the skis to work well for lift served powder days as well so I'm now leaning towards not too light. I think my Auras are around 2kg/ski so Dakotas look the same.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Weathercam wrote: |
| @OwenM, make sure you have the bindings adjusted very well as per the documentation - it is very very difficult, far worse than adjusting the derailleur (gears) on a push bike.. |
Don't quite get this remark, have you had a problem? Mine were mounted and adjusted by Breamar mountain sports I never really looked at the settings, they worked just fine.
The snow wasn't much cop at Cairngorm but I'm very pleased with the skis so far. Their very light so skinning is a delight and coming down they handled re-frozen crud as well as any ski I've owned. Just a pity there wasn't more snow and less wind.
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@OwenM, so if you have a problem out in the boondocks then you won't know what to do because a shop fitted them ???
I had the bindings fitted, but then carried out the adjustments myself as I was not happy with the adjustments the shop did after I tested them.
Have you actually tested them your self as per the documentation and are happy that they do slide back ?
OH took a bit of a bump yesterday on some very icy snow and happy to report one ski released well.
La Grave a couple of days ago we were skinning up in atrocious conditions, and I was using my Dynafit TLTs on an older pair of skis as I did not want to use my new skis with the Vipecs and after going back into descent mode thought I was in after the usual tests and ten mins later I came out as it released, culprit was frozen snow was under the front mech, so just goes to show!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Arno,
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i stick with the markers if i will be using lifts at all. skinning with Dynafits is a bit better IME but not such a great experience that it trumps all other things
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Do Markers ski better than Beasts? Or even than Radical FTs?
Not being argumentative - just really trying to work out which way to go with gear.
Currently got some line prophet 100s mounted with fritschi freerides which I ski with either alpine boots or scarpa denali TT. I guess it is a pretty solid combination for lift served and side country stuff. Not light of course but prophets are 2.1kg so not too bad.
My alpine boots are getting old and I don't love the denali's (fine but I bought them because they were cheap rather than because they were a perfect fit). And I have got rocker envy
I was hoping that I might get away with switch to new AT boots, tech bindings and something like carbon rangers for everything... but may be that's unrealistic.
Guess one of the issues is that if you go for burly AT boots and beasts even with light skis you are not getting a very light package (although I have hut to hut toured on by existing gear).
So now I'm feeling a bit torn between
a) something like ranger carbonlites / TFT Radical FT or Beast 14 (or wait for Radical 2) / scarpa maestral rs. Perhaps keep my alpine boots to use for the odd hard pack day on my old stormriders or killerquiver them.
b) keep my prophet set up for touring for now and go for a fun lift served fat ski and new alpine boots
Guess I really want someone to tell me I can be happy on dynafits / AT boots for everything (he says optimistically)?
Strikes me that is not that easy to test before you buy?
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I've been skiing Dynafits and AT boots for 7 years for everything. Works fine... for me at least. There's better hard snow damping and some psychological comfort in using frame bindings. Although the Beasts are much better than my Radicals with rattling my knees to pieces.
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| jedster wrote: |
Arno,
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i stick with the markers if i will be using lifts at all. skinning with Dynafits is a bit better IME but not such a great experience that it trumps all other things
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Do Markers ski better than Beasts? Or even than Radical FTs?
Not being argumentative - just really trying to work out which way to go with gear. |
On hard snow Markers ski far far better than traditional dynafits. No idea about the Beast - or the Kingpin for that matter.
In powder and nice soft snow dynafits ski just fine, but I'd never deliberately take them for a day in resort. If lifts make up a significant amount of the day then I'll stick with Barons every time.
It would be REALLY nice if the Beast and Rad 2 make up the difference, 'cos personally I find Dynafits MUCH nicer to skin on. In the past I've toured for several hours on Barons, but that was before I knew better... Last weekend I skinned (only for 20-30 mins) for the first on the Barons since getting the Dynafits and they were noticably a lot more work.
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| jedster wrote: |
Do Markers ski better than Beasts? Or even than Radical FTs?
Not being argumentative - just really trying to work out which way to go with gear. |
I'm not sure how I'd go if I was buying new kit from scratch. I haven't skied either of the Dynafit bindings (I am on TLT Speeds) but I suspect the difference is marginal. If I was buying new kit from scratch, I might go for Beasts or Radical FTs for everything on my freeride skis, but not sure. Both are materially heavier than Speeds; in fact Beasts are probably closer to the Markers than TLTs in weight.
Also, I got the markers for about EUR220 and the TLTs for less than £200 - so both for about the price of Radical FT and quite a bit less than the Beast
One thing is for sure though - any of those bindings plus some well fitted modern touring boots will be miles better than Denalis and Fritschis!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Meh, Clarky, Arno,
thanks guys - that's all useful input.
ON the hard snow performance thing I know in the past I've exchanged posts with Clarky on the limitations of fatter skis when trying to link short carved turns on hard pack. Have to confess that last week I was switching between the prophets and my 75mm old stormriders and it did occur to me that part of the difference was down to the play in the fritschis vs alpine bindings.  Particularly with a vibram sole - once you adjust the toe height you cant avoid a bit of slop I think, fritschis skied better with alpine boots but still not like alpine bindings.
Thing is, I don't know how much I should worry about hard snow performance... I'm lucky enough to have my own ski locker in the alps now so I can make my choices by the day and if I keep my old alpine boots then the stocklis/alpine bindings/alpine boots are going to outperform any freeride/AT rig on hardpack.
So I'm heading towards Radical FTs / some modern freeride/AT boots that fit. Might just quiverkiller those on the prophets as phase 1. ON the other hand new skis are NICE...
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I've skied Fritschi's once and never again. They have more slop than a very sloppy thing.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I bought Fritschis and toured on them once and hated them, skied them on lift served another day just to make sure and still hated them. If I really concentrated I could ski them ok but I never think about my Markers. I think there's a decent weight difference between F10/F12 and Baron/Duke as well, 1960/2150 vs 2600/2760 in small according to Markers homepage, I'm pretty sure when I looked at the Beasts before there wasn't a massive weight saving between them and the F10's which I have and love so for me, if I was going tech I would want something a lot lighter than Beasts or I would stick with the Tours which skki exactly like an alpine binding.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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you touring noobs don't know you're born; fritschis + denalis used to be the ultimate touring/freeride combination! [/grumpy old man]
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Shut it granddad.
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You know it makes sense.
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Have any of you ever bought crampons for your Markers.........discuss
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Haggis_Trap, 
Mate out here staying has had an interesting retail experience to say the least.
Reason the old skis with the Markers are getting dragged out of the closet is that conditions are so bad we've been packing skins as well in resort on the basis of skiing off the back and the skinning back up, which we did in La Grave a few days ago.
All the main touring routes are trashed it's getting quite dire.
Off on a mini road trip tomorrow to explore a new area around Val Frejus as I know they still have a lot of snow there.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Weathercam wrote: |
| Have any of you ever bought crampons for your Markers.........discuss |
No - if I'm scared enough to want crampons whilst skinning, then I'm bootpacking instead (also applies to dynafits).
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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I’ve gone from an ex-seasonaire 3 ski quiver to a desk jockey punter one set-up for all (as my seasonaire days are long in the past and my kit reflected that.
I’ve went for Scarpa Freedom SLs, Rossi Soul 7s and Marker F12s. I can honestly say it’s the best decision ever.
Markers tour well (I’ve done 1500m in them, I was more tired than equivalent days on Dynafits and lighter skis but I’m an office monkey now so that’s no surprise), ski like an alpine binding and the lack of dyna-faff is always nice. The Souls are very forgiving and ski really well all over the hill, I can carve reasonably well on them and still enjoy powder and corn (I no longer “charge”, have always avoided crud and I’m laughably bad in bumps so no problems there).
For a one-ski quiver, the Markers would be my (desk based office monkey) recommendation.
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@clarky999, come spring (and now) and starting early (08:30) quite often warrants considering using crampons, though I often carry them in the pack then never get round to using them due to some sort of masochistic bravado streak. Many of the Frenchies use them nearly all the time and it does make life so much easier especially on traverses across a face that is still frozen.
I tend to draw the line at having to use an ice axe to cut a path, which we've had guides do for us in the past!
We abandoned touring today as the road I thought would be open was shut. So my mate staying this week with us wanted a work out so he skinned up from the valley up the knackered piste and came back saying he should have taken his crampons
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Would a lighter person (64kg, have my bindings set to 6) have any reason to go for the F12s instead of the F10s?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@J2R, can't think of one - I set my bindings to 9 or 10, so went for the F12s as it's nice not to set at the very top of the range. also, there was a deal on at the time so no reason not to go for them
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@Weathercam, yeah I can see how some situations corn-chasing might merit them, though I haven't had an issue so far. Only been touring a few seasons though, so we'll see what this season brings... Can you even get dynafit crampons for 120mm skis??
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FAQ
