 Poster: A snowHead
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just had an email through saying that due to 'local legal restrictions' theyre doing away with the guiding service. Bit of a shame as weve always found it useful in a new resort to find out whats where!!!!!!!
One of the main reasons we go with Crystal
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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It is a great shame. I used to go solo on ski trips which was a bit hit or miss but the ski guiding ensured you had someone to ski with. Whilst being led by the crystal guiding service I have met some buddies, two off which have become regular ski buddies and good friends enriching my life. The loss of amateur ski guiding is not a major issue for me anymore as but I now go with a buddy or with Snowheads & often impromptu groups form & if no one else wants to lead I can do that.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Interested to see what the local legal restrictions are - personally I suspect an easy route for TOs to employ a whole pile less people for the season (without lowering their prices, obviously!) and blame it on local rules and regs that don't actually exist.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Out if interest, which resort in Italy? Regulations for instructing (which may or may not be relevant to this) are decided regionally not nationally.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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rob we are off to champoluc, but the email suggested it was all of italy
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| Mistress Panda wrote: |
| Interested to see what the local legal restrictions are |
Same as pretty much everywhere.... ski instructor (even if disguised as "ski guide") needs to have certain level of certification. If not, you pay penalty, spend night in jail and then complain how unfair world is.
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i just started a sepreate thread before i read this ( i seem to that a lot LOL) my holiday is also champlouc, they only have one rep in the area, so they will get bored without skiing !! we used it the first time we went there and it was fun.. don't use it now though, but still a shame
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@iskar, @rob@rar, I've just had the same email about a trip to Sestriere/Milky Way we have booked in December
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Will this be the same in the Dolomites? I know half the Sella Ronda falls into the south Tyrol which is an autonmous province. Would the same rules apply in such an area?
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I reckon it will be all of Italy, suspect it could be a way of saving money by the TO's but still...what do the reps do when not skiing ? or is it cheaper to employ non skiers as reps ?
we skied with a rep first time in Champoluc and wife really enjoyed, as did the rep, she got to have a laugh and meet poeple plus not ski on her own.. !!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
what do the reps do when not skiing ?
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@yorkshirelad, ski on their own or with their mates? Sounds great from their perspective 
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It's the same for Pila !
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You know it makes sense.
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rob@rar wrote
Out if interest, which resort in Italy? Regulations for instructing (which may or may not be relevant to this) are decided regionally not nationally.
Also got their email, includes Passo Tonale so would guess it applies to all Italian Resorts
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| Out if interest, which resort in Italy? |
Had an email about Cervinia.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I wouldn't worry even an app eill probably have better skiing skills than the average Crystal rep. I see a gap in the market for social intros ( Off to invent Skinder)
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Does that mean I don't have to drag a group of  round the dolomites on the S11BB?
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We had a great time with a ski host on our last TO trip, showed the host some great places to eat.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
Does that mean I don't have to drag a group of snowHead round the dolomites on the S11BB?
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no, please do..... 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| I wouldn't worry even an app eill probably have better skiing skills than the average Crystal rep. I see a gap in the market for social intros ( Off to invent Skinder) |
as they were 'guiding' that was never a problem, in fact a few years back in sauxe i actually ended up giving some free instruction to one of the lads, but they were good fun and we got to know the runs very quickly with them, and then another year we went to La Thuile and the 'guide' got lost so i ended up tail end charley of the group as he struggled on unpisted runs.....now that was funny 
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I've updated the post with some more info:
http://www.powpowpow.org/crystal-cancels-ski-hosting-in-italy/
In a nutshell :
Inghams and Neilson aren't withdrawing the service
Cortina tourism aren't aware of any 'new' regulations and suggest it's simply enforcement of existing regulations, but are unable to conclusively confirm the legal position.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Inghams I understand are withdrawing their service throughout Italy
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So those 'outraged of snowheads' on the various ESF threads proclaiming they were taking their bath toys away from France and off to Italy have a bit of a dilema now.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I wonder if this will also apply to Ski Club leaders - and will Switzerland and Austria follow soon?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@emwmarine, looks like it.
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@emwmarine, OTOH some Italian regions have recently become more liberal in their attitude to instructors with non-ISTD BASI quals. Mixed picture in Italy, protectionism-max in France.
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You know it makes sense.
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@laundryman, now now you know that is not true. France is max protection for professional ski instructor but least protectionist about setting up ski schools or working independently. But lets not let inconvenient facts get in the way of an agenda eh 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| emwmarine wrote: |
| So those 'outraged of snowheads' on the various ESF threads proclaiming they were taking their bath toys away from France and off to Italy have a bit of a dilema now. |
That was only ever hot air surely. The whole thing remains silly - those Brits skiing like goats behind a neophyte gappy who has only marginally more sense of direction than they have will simply become unherded goats. No one will be leaping into the bosom of ski schools to have the "guided tour" lesson. The social side is the obvious loss to Brits but is easily sorted by a meet for coffee here at 11 type function early in the week.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| emwmarine wrote: |
| So those 'outraged of snowheads' on the various ESF threads proclaiming they were taking their bath toys away from France and off to Italy have a bit of a dilema now. |
That was only ever hot air surely. The whole thing remains silly - those Brits skiing like goats behind a neophyte gappy who has only marginally more sense of direction than they have will simply become unherded goats. No one will be leaping into the bosom of ski schools to have the "guided tour" lesson. The social side is the obvious loss to Brits but is easily sorted by a meet for coffee here at 11 type function early in the week. |
I wonder if they would try to take that approach, so instead of actual guiding they offer "suggested itineraries" aimed at different standards, with a couple of timed meeting points along the way. Where a rep will be waiting to meet you and get a kickback from the restaurant/bar for bringing more business in.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Why would the TOs want to pay for ski leaders, other than, the others are doing it.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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This won't really change anything.. Reps will just ski out of uniform with their newly found mates.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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You would be surprised how many people book with TO's like Crystal because the specifically want to use the social ski side of things. You see even really good skiers in the groups, its a great way to meet people. We used to use it a lot when the kids were young and we had to ski individually while the other one looked after the kids.
I think its too late for this year, but I bet Crystal has social skiing set up with local ski schools in Italy by next season (Like France is now).
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| emwmarine wrote: |
| So those 'outraged of snowheads' on the various ESF threads proclaiming they were taking their bath toys away from France and off to Italy have a bit of a dilema now. |
You talkin' to me?
I'm someone who switched to Italy at least partly because of this issue, no need for schadenfreude.
Hopefully the company we've booked with for this season (third time running) will be able to fly under the radar - their hosts don't wear uniform. If necessary I guess they'll switch to the "meet here for coffee, meet here for lunch" model.
Fwiw my only experience of ESF instruction was very positive but I think they're being dicks about both the ski hosting and the equivalence issues.
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I used to like the rep guide system, last time i tried to give some input / requests to a chap he sort of looked blank and distant, sniffed and said something like he didn't know that side of the mountain and the plan was usually to go over here. Not at all confrontational just I knew that input was not worth pursuing. On the other hand long ago was a great character who kept us out till the wee hours (still in ski gear mind you) then was all ready to roll fresh and early the next day - got my first off piste lessons from that guy with a quick "we're not supposed to go off piste so don't tell anyone OK".
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Having had to help reps who were supposed to be guiding us off the mountains after the lifts close and see them take groups down off-piste ski routes which the group could not handle was somewhat entertaining but begs the question who really is thinking about this.
It is also disconcerting how much abuse the French get on here while the Italians get none. It seems many people form a view based on no knowledge of the rules and regulations or reasons for them or chose to misinterpret them. You then have to question what people's motives are.
If this is a service that people really want then far better that it is offered by someone who is qualified to do it for an appropriate fee. If it is not something that people are willing to pay for then it is not something that they really value.
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[quote]reps who were supposed to be guiding us off the mountains after the lifts close and see them take groups down off-piste ski routes which the group could not handle[/quote]
Funny that, I've seen a highly qualified ESF instructor do exactly the same thing.
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