 Poster: A snowHead
|
Hi all!
I've been on a couple of ski holidays but between a bad accident and lack of control I only just managed to break the parallel turns on green run barrier this year.
I finally bit the bullet and took a ski lesson at my local snow-dome and can now take my parallel turns up steeper slopes (they claim it's a hard blue/easy red kind of gradient - 15 degrees) and no longer revert to that awful weight-back panicked snow plough I always fell into on steeper terrain (yay for better weight distribution!).
My aim now is to practice, practice, practice up the snow-dome before January so I can finally join my friends up the mountain without risk of injury or holding them back. And yes, I want some finesse, too 
I've been trying to practice nice, calm, wide linked turns, with traverse in between, which is all quite slow, and honestly, I'm not sure if it's necessary? The fast and slow traffic, wildly varying terrain (from icy patches to random moguls) and the shortness/relative ease of the gradient, makes it really hard to stick to the script and I often end up coming to almost a complete stop.
If I'm honest, I get bored/frustrated and end up just picking up speed and using shorter turns to navigate around the terrain I don't fancy and the human-traffic. Which is funner. I'm worried though, am I missing out on some technique I will sorely need up the mountain? Should I persevere with the boredom and drill in those wide c-shaped turns and traverses? Or are shorter turns/edging what I'm really going to need up the mountain?
I don't want to skip necessary steps, but, some days I feel like I'm getting nowhere, fast.
I'd be grateful for any advice,
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
STyler, welcome to snowHeads. Difficult to offer specific advice without seeing you ski, but in general you shouldn't deliberately traverse between turns. Practice making turns of different sizes which will give you more ability to match your skiing to the varying terrain, but always try to link your turns so the moment you finish one turn you are starting the next one without any hesitation.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| Quote: |
you shouldn't deliberately traverse between turns
|
This is good to know! As a beginner, I was given advice to traverse between turns to help control my speed, which was helpful when I was starting out, but now, not so much (it's become an impediment). I have difficulty identifying what instruction to leave behind as my skiing improves, as I'm afraid I'll skip/let go of important fundamentals.
As you have probably gathered, I over-think *everything*
Thanks for the advice!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
It will get increasingly busy at the snowdome in the run up to January. If you're there for lessons that's less of an issue (and if you're going to Hemel, rob@rar is too modest to tell you that his "Improver" clinics would be ideal for you). Free practice will be difficult when it's busy. If I were you I'd save some of my snowdome cash and get some lessons when you're out on the mountain. There's lots you can't learn indoors.
Where are you going in January? People may have recommendations of good instructors for you.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
Totally agree with Maireadoconnor - save a little of your money and book a 2 hour private lesson for your first morning. You will learn loads making the rest of your week much more enjoyable, and your instructor will naturally show you a range of slopes that fit your abilities and that you can start to feel comfortable on with him, then push it a little more after.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
It's true, it's relatively quiet at the moment (in Manchester) but still, not quiet and I can see it getting busier, already.
I always feel like taking a lesson up the mountain is a wasted opportunity since I have limited time and a whole mountain to explore, but I keep hearing it's worth it, that it's finally sinking in.
We're planning on going to Sauze d'Oulx as we've been there before and there was a nice spread of different level runs (our group will be of mixed ability). If anyone has any recommendations there, I'd be very interested.
Is it worth keeping *some* practice up at the snow dome, in the meantime? How frequently, would you say?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Maireadoconnor, on the other hand there are others like myself who have learned much more about skiing on the mountain by taking indoor lessons at Snowdomes and made far more improvement than we have ever done by taking lessons on holiday. The consistency of the same instructor and the fact that I find myself more likely to practice drills etc. inside than trying to fit them in on holiday when the rest of your ski group just want to whizz off down the hill means that I now really rate indoor lessons in a snow dome. I used to be of the opinion that I just had to learn more on a mountain and would save my cash for this, but in practice this has certainly not been the case for me. I now haven't taken any lessons in resort for the last couple of trips, but have had a good number of indoor ski sessions between holidays. Perhaps you do get to a level when indoor lessons can't take you any further, but I haven't got there yet and if you read Inside Out's ski grading they suggest that they can teach you things indoors to quite a high level. I also have no hesitation in recommending their lessons to the OP.
To answer the OP STyler why don't you take a look at this thread to see what happens when you go off without getting the fundamentals sorted. http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=91977
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Side slip would be a nice skill to have if you don't already. Get out of jail when out with normal comfort zone due to navigational incidents...
Got me down my first black when my now husband guessed rather than map read at the top of the lift. These things shouldn't happen but of course they do when you're there to explore as much as to ski.
Suspect I will be needing it more now husband dear has discovered that I can ski better under pressure or threat of missing lifts than just skiing for the sake of skiing- less back seat and less being wet about things when not pushing on would mean taxi from arabba to canazei.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
Is side-slip where you let your skis flatten and slide sideways doing the hill? Then re-apply your edges to stop?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
STyler, that sounds about right - def. a get out of jail free card technique.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
STyler, couple of ideas for you at Chill....there is Performance Coaching on a Monday night you can book the sessions singly or as a block of 3, the main 3 sessions are short turns, carving and video analysis and then there is moguls too on selected dates. If you are beyond the Development courses then that's the next step.
Also really good if you are either a lady or you are Over 50... Ladies Coaching and Over 50s Coaching...a different focus each session, really good fun, friendly and informal.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
Cool, thanks for that Sarah! The lesson I completed 2 weeks ago was the advanced lesson and did wonder where to go from there
With the Ladies session, how do they deal with different abilities?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
STyler, there's a wide range of abilities on the ladies coaching mornings but the instructors use a range of exercises to benefit everyone. Also sometimes (depending on numbers) there are two groups working on different things. There are two coaches. It's good quality coaching, good fun and a good friendly bunch of ladies. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
Awesome! I think I'll book the next available weekend one - which isn't listed at the moment, but I'll keep an eye out
Thanks!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
Megamum, oh don't get me wrong - I've spent loads of time training at Hemel (well, until I broke my leg there in August). But I personally can't stand weekend free skiing at Hemel in the run up to winter when it's busy. I don't feel like I'm achieving much when each run is survival skiing, trying to avoid other people.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
STyler,
If you can make it to CFe Mon-Fri during the day it is still reasonably quiet ( though last week was busy with BASI Lvl 1 coaching, and also a couple of other training groups ). plus if you can make it down roughly once a week well worth buying the monthly pass at £60 or £70 dependant on if you want the all access or just the std unlimited.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
I've got the £60 October pass and have so far made it down twice each week. I've noticed weeknights are quieter, too though towards the end of the day there are more icy patches. I consider those as worthwhile practising upon, though even if they're not quite as fun.
My theory is to drill as much as poss right after this lesson as it will only get busier, and I figure the month right after the lesson will be the one I need to drill the most.
Perhaps, after that I'll mix the lift pass up with some performance lessons, and see what happens?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
STyler,
hi, I was just like you the beginning of the year and have been going to the fridge practising as much as possible. I have had some coaching there and the odd improver lesson and it has helped immensely.
I would work on each thing until I thought I had got it then get a lesson or a group fresh trax sounds similar to what sarah, is talking about. I could then get some more pointers as well as what i should try next. I now feel I can tackle most things and have found I love carving!
I would say short linked turns are really useful and learn to "hockey stop" as you can do this to get control again, there was a good technique which I cant remember what it was called, back something? Its where you slide then turn then slide down the slope I felt this helped me feel that any slope I could get down.
I'm no expert but this is how I learnt the best, practice instruction practise.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
Braquage?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
Hi all,
So I was back at the fridge yesterday and took your pointers on board. I've stopped attempted to traverse between turns which has really helped my rhythm, and keeps my speed constant, and I've stopped trying to run before I can walk. Sure I can parallel turn, but can I do it whatever happens? Nearly, but not quite. Some terrain still has my skis sliding out at strange angles, and I could do with working on my weight distribution some more.
I did a beginner lesson 3 years ago, and then went off up the mountain. My other half has taken to skiing like a flappy duck to water and with his "f*ck it factor" (as I like to call it) he's happily thrown himself down any slope and relied on basic technique and instinct to see him through - and his skiing has improved, immensely. He's not got much finesse, mind you. I was sort of under the impression I could follow suite, but evidently that isn't the case. I really should have taken further lessons up the fridge in between trips, and I'm sure I would have avoided nearly tearing my acl in the meantime (30minutes into a trip up Whistler, bye bye ski holiday) and wouldn't have had to spend my last ski trip drilling parallels on the green slope and getting over THE FEAR!
It's good to know that others are using their local slopes to train and drill in their lessons, and no, not everybody can wing it like my husband. It's also great to know the further lesson options in my local fridge, so I have a plan for progression
Hubby and I had a few runs together last night, and I gave him a good old run for his money (or so I'd like to think), which is such an improvement to my previous form, which earned me the nickname of "rolling roadblock".
So, thanks everyone, your advice has been really helpful
tldr: walk before you can run, not everybody can wing it, and there's load of helpful advice, here
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
STyler, there's a good chance your husband isn't as good as you might think. Self taught skiers can be very good, but it is rare, and more often they lack something fundamental in their technique. By getting occasional lessons and working on issues identified like you and capstone are you might not appear to progress as quickly (because you'll be spending more time getting the fundamentals right) but it will pay off in the long run!
It sounds like you're pretty aware of what's going on, and what you need to work on, so I won't attempt to give any advice for specific things to practice. Without seeing you ski it's unlikely to be productive anyway. You are right for example that practising on the less-than-perfect snow conditions we often find at indoor slopes will help prepare you for the mountains, so glad you can see the benefits of that.
Keep up the good work, and get occasional lessons to ensure you're heading in the right direction.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
STyler, could one of you video the other and then you could upload to vimeo and post a link in this thread. The instructors here are good when you have some video to show.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| Quote: |
there's a good chance your husband isn't as good as you might think
|
Hehehehe, I don't really rate his skiing, which meant I didn't take as kindly to his advice of "you need to be more aggressive!", "you need to ski faster!" and "you just need to keep your skis parallel" and other helpful gems, whilst I was trying not to twist my leg off up slopes he (and our friends) had dragged me that were way over my ability (still back-seated snow-ploughing) - I guess since he just figured it out, the same was expected of me. Eh, I should have known better. I mean, he's better than me, and I'm in no position to criticise, but it gets him where he wants to be, for now. Maybe now he's trying to freestyle and take on moguls, he'll feel what he's lacking.
@megamum - Really? Yeah, I'll do that! That's really helpful
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I think you've already come to realise that you should politely ignore tips like that and go back to working on what you know you need to improve. I'm sure he means well, but you clearly learn differently to your husband and so what works for him may not work for you.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
STyler, by the sounds of it def. post a video of your other half too. I suspect the instructors will be only too happy to offer him some 'constructive comments' too - it might take some of the wind out of his sails - sound like he needs it.
Having really struggled to learn to ski, I can practically guarantee you won't be told to be 'more aggressive' by folks here - I've personally found that I made best progress when instructors have slowed me down. You may well be different, but they will at least give you some proper and constructive things to think about. 'Keeping skis parallel' - well that's the goal, but as I found out there are other things to master which will cause that to happen, rather than focussing on that outcome to begin with - you are unlikely to be able to achieve that until other issues are fixed. It sounds to me that skiing with ear-plugs in or leaving hubby at home might be worth doing whilst you get you head round it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
Hahaha, these conversations got impolite very quickly.
| Quote: |
'Keeping skis parallel' - well that's the goal, but as I found out there are other things to master which will cause that to happen, rather than focussing on that outcome to begin with
|
So much this! Having learnt a bit more now, I can sort of see where some of it comes from, but telling someone who is still stuck in snow-plough to "just keep your skis parallel" - what does that even mean? Keep them parallel and then what? Just go straight? Given my back-seated stance, that would have been a disaster, and I knew that which is why I didn't dare just let the brakes (such as they were) off. My insistence on staying on the easier slopes to practice was scoffed at as lack of confidence. After my accident, I dug my heels in and refused to be told, though. Hehehehe! I've read there is often quite a divide between partners (and men and women in general) and I'm always skiing surrounded mostly by men, and all competent, it's a drag. So, I want to not be the focus of "tuition" next time.
Compare all that to the lesson I had recently, the 1st drill our instructor gave us (arms forward, weight over the feet), we took to the top of the slope and voila, instant traction. Easily the most transformative bit of instruction, ever. I had no idea my weight was back (didn't become apparent until the slope got steeper and I then assumed my inability to do anything was due my crap form) and none of my friends recognised it either (well, except I think for one guy, but he got about 5 minutes of trying to give me some help on a too-steep slope before I fell and did my knee in).
I'm glad my stubbornness is eventually paying off
Ah, I didn't realise I needed a vent, that feels good
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
Thankfully, I figured out the parallels, they just need practice and fine tuning to really become second nature, I think. After "the accident" I watched a lot of ski tutorial vids (Elate Media Ski School on you tube were great) and then used the advice on the green slope, during our last ski trip. Took a while, but they were coming along quite reliably. Then I tried to apply that to a steeper slope, and lo, it was wild, uncontrollable and probably quite dangerous. I could no longer turn. Now I realise my weight was all wrong. At least I was on my own then, and didn't have to listen to all the weird esoteric advice on top of feeling demoralised and everything else. I also realise that watching ski videos is nice n all, but doesn't come even close to an instructor
Oddly enough, lately, his advice has become a lot more based in reality. He has noticed I am doing a lot of skidding and suggests thinking about my inner edge more. I think it boils down to the fact that he had no idea why I couldn't get control and good turns, and so just thought it was my attitude (fundamental difference between us), now he can see I can do it, and it just looking at technique and what have you.
I'm taking his advice with a pinch of salt, though - he means well, but has proven he will give (really terrible) advice on matters he knows nothing about. Hehehehehe.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
thats it 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
Meh. I like skidding as a braking method. Nothing wrong with skidding in the right conditions. ..
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
I've heard that - basically you have a choice between carving, or a skid, and both have their uses. I have no idea in which situation each have their uses, or what they are, though.
Do you?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
STyler, a skilled skier will be able to use varying degrees of both, blending between the two extremes as conditions and terrain require. Skidding the skis will, all else being equal, scrub more speed than a pure carved turn and has the potential to allow you to turn the skis more tightly (although a highly skilled skier will be able to do some pretty tight turns without any skidding) and so tends to get used as the terrain gets steeper.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
Ah okay, so it's okay to skid if I'm trying to control my speed?
I'm guessing then carving is getting your edges to really bite (no skid) and use that edge to turn... so if you're trying to brake, you don't really wanna carve at all (coz, if you're doing it right, you're going to just... swerve..?)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
Yes, skidding is just as valid a technique as carving - you need both tools. And you're right that the traditional hockey stop way of stopping is pretty skiddy and not at all carved. That's not to say you can't control your speed by carving: you can, but it's not the resistance of the skis skidding on the snow that is slowing you down, instead if you hold on to a carving turn you will end up skiing back up the hill, and gravity will slow you down quite happily. So speed control is really a combination of lots of things, and which you use when will vary.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
Got it, thanks!
I'll worry less about stopping my skis skidding then, and wait til I'm ready and take some carving lessons. Hopefully that way I will be able to interchange at will when appropriate
sidenote: my husband might actually be full of it
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Too much skidding is hard work, and not great in deeper snow...
Skidding and making z shaped turns is not ideal, as really hard work on the legs. There is a minimum comfortable speed of skiing I think and it took a thunderstorm for me to go above walking pace. Now I can go at a reasonable pace on an empty piste but do work harder on bumpier stuff!
My husband is also fairly self taught and gung ho but gettingboots that fit a little better and with the canting set up right made a massive difference to his neatness.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Do you prefer to carve, then?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
Nope. Far too fast feeling. Just try to do gentle skid turns rather than sharp zs. Easier to keep my speed down to where I am happy on each turn than get too quick and then brake hard. Like driving a car smoothly and anticipating. Aiming for s shapes rather than ź shapes but carving isn't necessarily the aim for me unless necessary for control / progress. Skidding in thick/ uneven heavy stuff is quite trippy so less helpful...
E.g piste of varying steepness. Shallow slope followed by flat my happy speed is quite high, and will try to carve to minimise slog on flat. Piste narrows, happy speed reduced, can see steep lumpy bit coming - slow down gradually so enter steep/busy bit at an appropriate speed so I ideally don't have to make an emergency stop on suboptimal terrain. Or have to stop and wait and contemplate the slope watching it get steeper and bumpier by the second.
Making too many turns under stress is tiring, the more relaxed they can be the easier it is for me.
Am a bit of a control freak so managing that while still having fun and travelling around resorts is a balancing act.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
).
