 Poster: A snowHead
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I am assuming there is slightly more to the story than originally posted, it's possible they have POS passes (which don't require photos for most) and these are in some way linked through the deal with Vail. In which case Vail/L3V's have shared the data and photo according to T's and C's (if possibly against data protection rules).
If I were Vail/L3V's then I would probably ensure some data sharing to make sure that Fred skiing in Vail doesn't post his free passes to John in France for him to use.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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ansta1, but doesn't the OP state the photo (and so Vail pass) was from the previous year?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Friends on holiday with us in Ski Amade bought 4 passes, 2 adult and 2 children, one day the wife and hubby somehow swapped their passes. There were no names or pictures on the passes and no pictures taken. When getting on the Planai gondola she was taken form the queue and to a room with monitors in. She was shown a picture of her husband on the screen and informed 2 people were using the pass. She phoned her hubby who came back down on the gondola and they swapped passes. All was smiles but the technology seemed to be impressive. No idea how they did it, or what system was used.
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Frosty the Snowman, was it a photo in ski gear? If so this is explained by the posts earlier stating that the first lift used will take a pic.
The OP in this case states that the pic came from a US pass from the previous year.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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midgetbiker, yes it was a photo of then taken earlier in the week as they passed through a turnstile in a lift queue
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If the companies are going to crack down on the passing along of short duration multi-day passes then it is fair enough given that they are not transferable, BUT:
Given the number of posters on this thread who didn't realise the passes could not be transferred then I do believe the lift companies need to make it clearer.
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| midgetbiker wrote: |
| ansta1, but doesn't the OP state the photo (and so Vail pass) was from the previous year? |
He does, but once the respective passes are linked I assume they are linked for the life of the pass. We have POS passes for the 3 valleys and they are specific to each person. If the lift stations are taking photos at pass presentation then (though I am not saying it is the case) is it not possible that the photo wasn't taken at Vail. Even that bit aside if they had previously had the passes from Vail to L3V's linked it's not beyond the realms of technology to ensure that any new passes purchased using the same address or email address would be automatically linked.
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| midgetbiker wrote: |
| Given the number of posters on this thread who didn't realise the passes could not be transferred then I do believe the lift companies need to make it clearer. |
Agree.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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ansta1, sorry to be dim but what is a POS pass? I had thought you meant 'point of sale' ie a pass bought on the spot at the desk, but now I gather this is not the case.
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| Quote: |
Given the number of posters on this thread who didn't realise the passes could not be transferred then I do believe the lift companies need to make it clearer.
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The rules are generally pretty clearly displayed near the sales offices, IME. Why would they have your name on, if anyone can use them?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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pam w, in my experience shorter duration multi-day passes do not have your name on them.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Have to say that I would take it for granted it wasn't transferable, almost nothing is.
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[quote="pam w"]
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It would strike me as fairer for resorts to offer refunds on unused tickets
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It is part of the deal. You buy a 3,4 7 day pass you get a discount on say buying single 1 day passes.
Dont expect a refund.
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And quite clearly the original purchaser had her name on the pass - so it was issued to a named individual. It's straightforwardly against the T & C, as is giving your partly used 2 hour parking ticket to someone who has just arrived. Them's the rules. |
Purchased lift tickets are generally NON Tranferable.
Many lift companys use cameras with facial regonition technology (I know about helmets, scarves etc). For example in the Arlberg every photo pass issued 7days+ flashes up on the lifties computer.
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You know it makes sense.
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Prior to learning differently (from a discussion on this forum some 3 years ago) I assumed that longer duration passes (which required a photo) were not transferable, but shorter duration (no photo) were.
I now know I am wrong, but the fact I believed it for years, and many others still do, means that whatever efforts the companies feel they have made to communicate their terms (be it a board full of rules near the desk, or other means) is by definition inadequate (not legally may be, but practically).
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Quote: |
Many lift companys use cameras with facial regonition technology (I know about helmets, scarves etc). For example in the Arlberg every photo pass issued 7days+ flashes up on the lifties computer.
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You see: that bit is news to me. I had up until now assumed the only photo linked to any pass I or others had was one which we supplied.
What I am still not getting is why the lady referred to in the OP had supplied a name in order to get a 4 day pass (which then allowed the photo from the USA to be linked to the 4 day pass). I freely admit though that for several years all I have bought in the way of passes are annuals for Mont Blanc Unlimited and occasional day passes for other resorts (plus one touring ticket for Grand Montets, because I am a hopeless forgetful buffoon). Oh and week passes for guests visiting us in Chx, where a name has never been requested.
So maybe you supply a name in other resorts for 4 day passes, is this the case?
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Poster: A snowHead
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| thecramps wrote: |
| Have to say that I would take it for granted it wasn't transferable, almost nothing is. |
This...
Even from day pass tickets at Cairngorm, Glenshee, Glencoe and Nevis where it's a bit of sticky paper and a wire to ensure it remains attached to your jacket so only you can use it, I've accepted and assumed lift passes to be non transferrable since I was a kid.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| thecramps wrote: |
| Have to say that I would take it for granted it wasn't transferable, almost nothing is. |
+ 2
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| midgetbiker wrote: |
| ansta1, sorry to be dim but what is a POS pass? I had thought you meant 'point of sale' ie a pass bought on the spot at the desk, but now I gather this is not the case. |
The 3 valleys POS passes are lift passes you buy which can be uploaded online, we keep the cards. We have cards for most of the major french resorts that do the same thing which means we can add afternoons, days or longer via the websites as we need them.
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ansta1, OK got it, that is the system I referred to in an earlier post, and indeed what I suspect has indeed happened in this case (the case in the OP).
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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feef, Pedantica, it doesn't matter how many people say they have always assumed passes were not transferable; i maintain that a sizeable proportion of people buying shorter duration multi day passes assume that they can hand them around (share one pass between a couple with childcare issues etc); the evidence in earlier threads on this subject bares me out (and that is from a sub-set of the general skiing population who are better informed than average).
I am in no way saying that people should be able to transfer passes, only that lift companies need to make it clearer that you can't if they intend to enforce only partially understood rules that have been practically unenforceable until recently (due to improved technology).
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| feef wrote: |
| thecramps wrote: |
| Have to say that I would take it for granted it wasn't transferable, almost nothing is. |
This...
Even from day pass tickets at Cairngorm, Glenshee, Glencoe and Nevis where it's a bit of sticky paper and a wire to ensure it remains attached to your jacket so only you can use it, I've accepted and assumed lift passes to be non transferrable since I was a kid. |
I had always thought of the bit of wire as just a way to mount the pass on your jacket which meant it was easily visible (surely if someone wanted to share a pass they would just pass on the jacket/pack it was attached to).
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| thecramps wrote: |
| Have to say that I would take it for granted it wasn't transferable, almost nothing is. |
I'm starting to bore myself here, but:
Really, almost nothing is?
I'm pretty sure that for every example of something you could come up with that is not transferable then i could find an example of something that is.
hotel bookings, theatre bookings, airline tickets etc etc.
I agree that short duration multi-day passes are not transferable, i agree that there is a justifiable reason why they are not, i just do not think that it is blindingly obvious to the general buying public that they are not.
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| midgetbiker wrote: |
| feef wrote: |
| thecramps wrote: |
| Have to say that I would take it for granted it wasn't transferable, almost nothing is. |
This...
Even from day pass tickets at Cairngorm, Glenshee, Glencoe and Nevis where it's a bit of sticky paper and a wire to ensure it remains attached to your jacket so only you can use it, I've accepted and assumed lift passes to be non transferrable since I was a kid. |
I had always thought of the bit of wire as just a way to mount the pass on your jacket which meant it was easily visible (surely if someone wanted to share a pass they would just pass on the jacket/pack it was attached to). |
Really? even bus tickets and parking tickets are non transferable, everyone knows that.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I recall getting a refund for the final unused day of a 6 day pass at Whistler. Since then I've assumed that it's ok to get refunds. Anyone else done the same?
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and the suggestion that airline tickets are transferable is a bit wrong, too. You can change the name on them (with some airlines) but there'll be a charge - possibly a very big one. Just try turning up at Gatwick with somebody else's ticket.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
Really? even bus tickets and parking tickets are non transferable, everyone knows that.
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I'm not sure they do, certainly not in the case of parking tickets, I know, but I think many people who say 'here have my ticket, I paid for an hour but have only been here 20mins' assume what they are doing is ok.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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pam w, charge or no, that is my definition of transferable. I accept though that the return leg of a return ticket may be non-transferable with most (but not all) tickets with most (but not all) airlines, which is possibly a better analogy with a multi-day pass.
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| midgetbiker wrote: |
The USA stores a picture when it issues the discounted or longer duration ticket, and it stores it under the name 'Jane Smith'. The lady buys a shorter duration multi day ticket in Europe the next season, how does the US photo become linked (given that she needn't supply a name to buy the shorter duration multi day, and even if she did there can be no certainty that it is the same 'Jane Smith')? |
I will try to find out how the Courchevel pass came to be linked to the name. Maybe they keep some CC details in their database but I don't know what info they get from the POS terminals (not much I would have thought).
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You know it makes sense.
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midgetbiker, if you took an unused multi-day lift pass to an office and explained that the named user couldn't use it, and asked for it to be transferred to you, that might well be OK - with a charge, probably. But assuming you can simply pass it back and forth, depending on who wants to go out skiing, is disingenuous.
The pricing for multi-day tickets will take into account the fact that most won't be used for every hour the lifts are open. Like gym memberships (also not transferable). If all the gym users turned up at once you'd not get in the door.
And I suspect that with some airlines (including BA) airline tickets may not be transferable at all, even for a charge.
My son got caught out flying Genoa to Stansted with Ryanair. He had bought a ticket for his girlfriend too, but she couldn't travel, so he thought he could use part of her baggage allowance. WRONG! He was very cross.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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pam w, last year a friend paid for her son the fly business to New York to do his 'work experience' in her US office.
When he got to the airport a chap convinced him to swap seats with him in coach for $100 (so that the guy could sit with his fiancee he said). They went to the BA desk and the tickets were swapped, there and then, no charge.
this proves three things:
The lad is somewhat spoiled and his Mum has more spare cash than me (she explained to me that as it was his first time flying alone she was happier with him in business)!
Those tickets were transferable 
No matter what they think 16year olds are naive.
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Poster: A snowHead
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pam w, we cross posted, so please don't think I was proving a point by saying the tickets were BA, in honesty I have no idea which airline it was. The story is true though, and his Mum told it to me with him sat there, she is still livid with him given what the ticket cost her.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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midgetbiker, maybe she did have to give her name & quoted the fact that she had skied Vail in order to get a rebate? Maybe she used the same credit card...
If she did neither of these things then it is worrying though that they linked 'Jane Smith' to 'Jane Smith'. I think it would be worthwhile investigating.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| pam w wrote: |
midgetbiker, if you took an unused multi-day lift pass to an office and explained that the named user couldn't use it, and asked for it to be transferred to you, that might well be OK - with a charge, probably. But assuming you can simply pass it back and forth, depending on who wants to go out skiing, is disingenuous.
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But it's not disingenuous if the person doing it thinks it is ok. I know it is not ok, i might well still have done it, but not now i know the tech will catch me.
What I am saying is that I think a good percentage of people believe it is ok and within the allowed usage.
About 4 people (non lift company employees) yourself included have said that they know and it is obvious, 2 people (myself included) have said they didn't know (in my case past tense) and it isn't obvious. That's over 30%, even if it were 20% or even 10% then i feel that is too many left unaware that they are in danger of on the spot fines. No matter what you do a percentage will always be ignorant of rules as they pay zero attention, but a small effort could bring the number way down.
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| Steilhang wrote: |
midgetbiker, maybe she did have to give her name & quoted the fact that she had skied Vail in order to get a rebate? Maybe she used the same credit card...
If she did neither of these things then it is worrying though that they linked 'Jane Smith' to 'Jane Smith'. I think it would be worthwhile investigating. |
I suspect you are right that something the lady did linked her US pass to her 3V pass, or it was this POS system that linked both to a central profile.
But anyway, i have moved on from the details of the OP and am now riding a whole different hobby horse (helps my post count, which has to be good).
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I don't know how anybody could not know or even have an inkling that sharing a lift pass is not allowed. even if I wasn't quite sure, I would check.
Its a bit like taking out insurance on a car and then allowing a completely uninsured driver using your car - Sorry officer, I thought it would be ok for him/her to use my insurance policy while I was in bed (OK so a bit OTT I know)
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midgetbiker, if a percentage are "ignorant of the rules as they pay zero attention", why is anyone else responsible for them. Why make any effort to educate divvies like that?
Ever heard the phrase Caveat emptor?
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Perhaps resorts ought to offer a shared pass for two people who might want to share child care responsibilities. I wonder reading the thread if the OP was caught by the Vail photo or if they just assume this was the case - did they actually see the photo? It could be that they recall the Vail photo being taken because they were asked to look at a camera, but maybe the chap was caught in France by one of these systems that took the woman's picture without her knowledge and maybe this is what gonged them out rather than the Vail link?
In any event this tech. is worth being aware of as it would stop perfectly innocent rescue attempts to regain a lost pass as described on the page 1 knife and fork incident.
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Ignorantia juris non excusat
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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thecramps, I don't expect the lift companies to ever get through to the divvies. I do want them to make an effort to get the percentage of those unaware of the rules down until it is just the divvies, at the moment I believe (and I may well be wrong here) that a number of non-divvies might innocently and inadvertently breach the rules.
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| davidof wrote: |
| Maybe they keep some CC details in their database... |
I've an incling that using CC details for anything other than the transaction is against the T&C of the CC issuing company too - why else bother with loyalty cards?
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