 Poster: A snowHead
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Had a bit of a debate about whether to put this in equipment or off piste, decided to go with off piste.
A number of my friends have bought B2/B3 mountaineering boots and crampons etc.. I've been on a couple of (easy) munros with them using rented kit and was considering buying the same, but I find when I get to the top of the hill the prospect of walking back down really upsets me when I could be skiing down. Plus walking downhill in crampons is horribly uncomfortable.
So, I was considering getting some sort of touring setup instead. I currently ski on Whitedot Ones (89mm and 180cm), I was considering getting some narrower, shorter and slightly less stiff (mine are the older stiffer Ones not the newer model) skis in the 75-80mm and 170cm range anyway for better piste skiing. I can probably only justify having 2 pairs of skis and budget isn't unlimited. So I've got a few options:
1) Keep the Ones, get some 75mm-80mm waisted skis with alpine touring bindings (Glisshop has a few at not obscene prices). Clearly not ideal but simple and I don't have to buy so much
2) Investigate getting the Ones re-mounted with touring bindings (bearing in mind they're quite heavy), buy narrower skis for piste only
3) Buy a proper Dynafit touring setup, keep Ones or sell and replace with piste skis
4) Learn to telemark (!)
I think a key question is, what sort of touring setup do I want/need? Bearing in mind I might want crampons for some ascents so would need to get boots you can reasonably use with crampons, but if it's steep enough that it's a crampon and ice axe ascent I would probably want a chicken route to ski back down as I'm not really up for steeps (at this stage anyway). I understand the fundamental differences between Alpine and Dynafit type touring setups in terms of weight and stiffness but I obviously don't know what I want (or I wouldn't be asking  )
I'm a reasonably decent skiier, I can get down anything in control but my technique will go to pot if it's too steep/difficult. I don't have much experience off piste, but looking to get more. Before people start talking about avalanche safety I've done some avalanche safety stuff with my hiking buddies, and I've got more lined up (+kit and practice with said kit), so not really looking to discuss that here.
TL;DR: I want to have a go at touring but don't know what I want or what I'm talking about 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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1)
Scotland doesn't have too much vert. Fitting crampons to ski boots is usually dead easy the only real gotcha is that some crampons need a longer bar to fit long BSLs.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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meh, cheers
Presumably I should get some boots with a reasonable walk mode as well then, Quests?
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I've got touring bindings on both my sets of skis - 83mm, 183cm, Fritschi Freeride, Movements and 95mm, 186cm, Marker Duke, Atomics. Short climbs on the (heavier) Atomics are fine, but for longer or more sustained stuff I use the Movements. I would not go any narrower than the Movements simply to make life easier on the off-piste ski down.
I suggest that getting something like Marker touring bindings for your Ones would be a perfectly sensible route. Depending on the overall balance of your total skiing decide between an 'occasional walk' binding like the Duke or a 'more walking' like F12/F10. From your description I don't think Dynafits would be necessary/right for you at this time. My impression with Dynafits is that they are best pared with ultralight skis rather where the binding weight is a larger percentage of the total package.
There are some great introductions to touring/off-piste skiing that various companies run. Get out there and do some. Some people will never enjoy 'Climb 3 hours for 20 minutes ski down' but personally I love it as a variation from lift-served off-piste.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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bobmcstuff, the K2 Pinnacle/Technica Cochise/Salomon Quest type boots would be a good compromise between touring and skiing well if you're not going to be touring a lot. Especially if you want to keep costs down. Just ends up costing you in effort instead. 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Despite the marginally greater stability of Marker bindings they are very heavy (especially the Dukes - surely the Barons are quite robust enough for all but a tiny elite of off-piste skiers). Personally I'd go for the Fritschi Freerides. No don't go narrower than 89mm for touring skis (my old Scott Missions are that). You presumably want a good experience skiing down and plenty of skis that wide are quite efficient at Carving on piste if you really want to. I don't have personal experience of the Whitedot so I don't know how well they would do as touring skis.
If you really get into touring from hut to hut (as opposed to doing day tours to get to interesting skiing) then you can think about Dynafit bindings. Personally I don't like spending 95% of my time walking and 5% skiing. I prefer to go up lifts and then skin to get to interesting places.
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snowball speaks wisely about the Barons/Dukes. If I was buying today I'd go for the Barons over the Dukes and save myself the money. Though having just had a look at Ellis Brigham's website the Barons are currently £25 more expensive rather than £60 cheaper.
I should probably have also said that my Movements are now a few years old, and if I was buying now I would, as he suggests, look closer to 90mm than 80mm underfoot.
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bobmcstuff, I'm new to touring therefore clueless as well. I've got the Salomon Quest max BC 120 and find them light but also very good in alpine mode. Walk mode works pretty well. Also got skis bindings and skins for £270 off ebay (salomon sentinal with marker F12 ) probably quite a heavy set up but will do as an entry level/ short tour set up.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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How likely is it I'll be able to re-mount touring bindings to the Ones? They've got Rossignol bindings on currently with a DIN 8-13(?), I forget the exact model but I think they're Axials of some sort. Would they be worth much in re-sale (I doubt it)?
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personally, I'd choose Marker F12s (or F10s is DIN of 10 is enough for you) over Freerides, Dukes or Barons. You should be able to remont your ones. Doubt you'll get a lot for second hand Axials, I'm afraid
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I just stuck some Tracker / Guardian bindings on my 98mm all mountain skis. Solid alpine binding for on and off piste skiing, and not bad (although a little heavy) for touring. I've only done up to three hour hikes on them so far so no full days.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Arno, yeah I guessed as much. DIN 10's plenty, I'm 5'8"/173cm and about 84kg (yes I need to lose weight, lost 4kg since xmas though). Currently my bindings are on DIN 8 (as low as they'll go) and I'm getting reliable release in crashes. Of course if I keep losing weight I might want to reassess.
snowball, the Ones are a decent off piste ski, they just aren't massively lightweight. They aren't rockered or anything but are plenty wide enough. They do carve to an extent, but I find it hard to do much more than follow their natural radius because they're quite long and stiff; I skiied some shorter, flexier, slightly rockered Salomon XT800s earlier in the year and was quite taken with how much easier it was to carve.
Guardians are a fair bit cheaper than Marker F12s on Ellis Brigham's site (£200 compared to £300), but are nearly a kilo heavier per pair. The Fritschis are another £60 on top of that and seem to be heavier than the F12s?
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bobmcstuff, I've seen the Tracker / Guardians for £160 online. Now in a lighter DIN range too, and supposedly coming with a sliding AFD this year.
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You know it makes sense.
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Marker F12s are almost identical in weight to Fritschi Freeride +. (both a tiny fraction above a kilo per binding)
8 is rather high for the lowest din setting. OK if that is what you would use anyway, I suppose.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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snowball, I wouldn't buy new bindings with a lowest setting of 8 - I got the skis second hand (off here actually) and didn't have all that much choice in the matter. 8 seems to be releasing fine, so I'm not too bothered at the moment. ~7 might be more appropriate (so maybe I can justify new bindings as a safety issue  )
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
My impression with Dynafits is that they are best pared with ultralight skis rather where the binding weight is a larger percentage of the total package.
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Plenty of people pair tech bindings like Dynafits with big, wide and heavier skis so I wouldn't worry about that. If you are serious about touring, they are far superior to frame bindings. They are light, reliable and tour way better. Frame bindings are not only heavier, they feel heavier because you lift the binding with every step. Dynafits stay on the snow surface with the ski and pivot at the toe pins. That being said, they as not as good for resort use.
If you want to use these skis primarily in resort and sometimes go on shorter tours, go for a frame binding like Markers or Tracker/Guardians. If you want a pair of skis as a dedicated touring rig, go with Dynafits.
Even if you go for a frame binding, I would still recommend getting touring boots that have tech fittings so that you have the option to use them with tech bindings down the line.
As for getting downhill on crampons, just learn the crampon cartwheel. It is much faster.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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+1 for snowball's suggestion of Fritschi Freerides. A good compromise if you're not going to be touring all the time. I wouldn't mention them in the same breath as as the Dukes/Trackers/Guardians/etc. On a recent Snoworks Backcountry Access course, some people were having difficulties with anything other than Fritschis or Dynafits - releasing from and locking into ski mode seemed to be a pain with the Salomon/Atomic efforts and kick turns were not as easy. Fristchis are plenty robust enough. Mine are 10 years old now and on their third pair of skis - the first 72mm underfoot, 170cm long Atomic R9s and, just recently, my fantastic new 108mm/177cm Whitedot Ranger Carbonlights.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Having skied on Naxos, Fritschis, Barons and Dynafits, I'd go for:
- Marker F12s if you plan to use the skis for a lot more than touring (lighter than Barons / Adrenalins / Guardians with similar performance, and I'd say better performance than Fritschis)
- Dynafit if you'll have a "touring only" or "touring mainly" setup.
On the other hand I wouldn't refuse any of the above (except for Naxos) if I had to rent.
I just came back from a ski weekend - for about half a day I ended up skiing on piste on DPS112s with Dynafits, and they were working quite well.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I was slightly concerned the Ones would be a bit heavy for touring, my setup feels quite heavy compared to other skis (regular ones not touring specific) when I've given them a quick heft test. Anyone else toured on Ones?
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According to this link ...
http://www.whitedotskis.com/technical-specifications/
The 180cm whitedot ones are 1850g per ski. Which is a little bit on the heavy side for a touring ski but not extreme.
... as a comparison the Volkl Amaruq has similar dimensions and is 1349g per ski. 1kg more on the feet = 5 kg equivalent on your back. If your touring partners are fitter than you and on "normal" touring skis your fitness could well be pushed.
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| DB wrote: |
| ...your fitness could well be pushed. |
It'll take much less than heavy skis for that!
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