 Poster: A snowHead
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Has anybody got any experience of covering insurance for a non-family member that comes on a skiing trip, aged 15.
I am taking my two kids + one other over Easter and I am not sure how to handle the following:-
-parental consent were she to be hurt and need treatment (I am thinking a notarised letter of authority)
-liability were she to injure someone on the slopes
-her parents suing me were something to happen that they deemed my fault
These are really close friends so I don't want to make a huge deal out of it and my kids would love the fact that a friend is coming along.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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DaveB, Can't help with the insurance but you will need a letter from the childs parent giving you permission to take her out of the country (and bring her back in), passport being in a different name will be noticed and questions asked. Last two trips with my daughters 21 year old boyfriend, at the Tunnel eyebrows raised and then they noticed his age (Coming back in, no checks on the way out!) 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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DaveB, When we took the granddaughters the parents provided us with details of their own travel insurance which they got confirmed did cover the girls abroad without their parents. We took a letter we had made up giving us authority to take them abroad, give permission for medical treatment etc - the only time we needed it was at UK passport control where they queried the different surnames, asked us our relationship, then asked for a letter of authority. What they would have done if we did not have the letter I don't know!
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I've taken other people's kids with no letters of authority (all confirmed as being covered on travel insurance, of course) but that was a few years ago and I suspect the authorities have got stricter about this sort of thing. A letter from the parents authorising the travel sounds very sensible. As for medical treatment in an emergency, I wouldn't have thought any very formal solution was needed. The parents could probably be contacted and, if not, I guess you are in loco parentis, as a school teacher would be if it were a school trip.
Have a great holiday!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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weve done it loads of times, the most hassle we had was with easyjet who made a big fuss over the letter, but fortunately the dad was at the airport flying elsewhere, so the jobs worths got their comeuppence!! 
re the insurance, most policies now give you a little card to carry, or failing that just have a list of the policy number/names and contact details, always worked fine.
we did get stopped at calais a few years ago and were asked for a letter allowing us to have the child along, as I pointed out to the passport control (UK ) its a bit late now as we are returning, to which I must say he did agree with and waved us through.
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Last time we took my daughter's friend abroad (summer not skiing) I got questioned when we were re-entering the UK, not leaving  I decided it was sensible not to voice my opinion on this. We just had the stuff mentioned above, letter of consent and insurance which her parent's took out.
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I've done it twice - once with a consent letter, once without. No issues on either occasion.
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I got a real interrogation (interview room, the lot) at Calgary airport when I took my own daughter skiing. They were expecting a consent letter from her mother
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I think it is good passport control are on the ball about children being moved about without their parents. Although not sure how hard it would be to fake a letter from the parent!
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Claude B, Apparently the same can apply in Austria and there is a letter of parental consent that can be printed off and signed by the other parent. I've never had it questioned, but then we've never needed to stop or needed any treatment anywhere there, but in case we do I take a copy of the signed consent from the kids' father with me just to be on the safe side. It begs the question of difficulty if the parents are not on speaking terms or miles from each other though.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Try Morton Michel or Voice for liability insurance.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| pam w wrote: |
| As for medical treatment in an emergency, I wouldn't have thought any very formal solution was needed. The parents could probably be contacted and, if not, I guess you are in loco parentis, as a school teacher would be if it were a school trip. |
A school will have a signed form granting the teacher loco parentis, and giving permission for them to authorise medical treatment in the event of not being able to contact parents. A child wouldn't (shouldn't!) be allowed to travel without this.
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Elizabeth B, Oh right - well, obviously such a letter makes sense. But presumably schools have one anyway, if permission is needed, as an accident could well happen during the school day in the UK too.
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You know it makes sense.
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Megamum,
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It begs the question of difficulty if the parents are not on speaking terms
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i would have thought this is the very situation that drives the need for a letter etc.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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pam w, they do, but it doesn't run from one trip to the next even for a teenager. I end up filling in a real essay of a form for mine for every occasion!  even if she is out for a day visiting another educational establishment!
hobbiteater, it probably is, but this shouldn't mean that the parent whom the child is with doesn't have a legal right to take them on a foreign holiday for week with the best of intentions. I can guess it is to protect the kids whose parents mean to abduct them to that parent's custody whilst abroad, but tbh., if anyone was on that trick, I imagine they have got more planned than would be prevented by the absence of a basic signed form.
I have some sympathy with Claude B, essentially the parent is made to feel that they shouldn't be doing something they have an absolute right to do.
To insist on a signed from can make things incredibly difficult. I know of at least one mother who doesn't know where the father of her son is, let alone is on speaking terms with him - how would she organise a signed form? 
I take one, yes, because I can easily get one done and it might help one day. HOWEVER, I entirely resent a system that makes obtaining such thing necessary when the ex. has no problems with where I am taking our kids. To have to even ask him makes me feel awkward and implies that I am doing something that I shouldn't be which def. isn't the case.
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Poster: A snowHead
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I took my daughter all over the place after I split with her mother when she was 5; Hawaii, California and Canada as well as about 10 different European countries. Canada was the only place where I was treated with suspicion. As she was 8 at the time she was able to answer questions about where we were going, that her mother knew, etc.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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As I cannot believe that any overseas bureaucracy keeps a copy of foreigners signatures a signed letter of consent must be the most easily forged document imaginable.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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a signed letter of consent must be the most easily forged document imaginable.
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T Bar, Quite - and therefore surely of little real intrinsic value - hence why bother at all?
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i got questioned returning with 2 trainees form a race camp at landgraaf, (on the way back into the country).. what relationship is this child (he was 15) to you?, "none he is a race trainee returning from a camp, skis are in the roof box"... to child.."is this true?, child: yep unfortunately i have to come home to my parents now that it is finished
so yes get a letter from the parents... now all coaches have letters of authority for every trainee
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I flew to Geneva with my 17 month old grand-daughter a couple of weeks ago to pass her over to her mother, our daughter, at the airport and I flew back to UK. We had had the baby to stay with us for six days prior to the flight so my daughter prepared a letter which was witnessed and signed by her and her husband/father of baby authorising me in case of any medical treatment needed and also to travel with her out of the UK. Baby's passport does not have my surname as daughter and SIL. At no time was I challenged at the airport so no need to produce the letter. But I felt happier knowing that I had it with me.
I think nowadays if we were taking another child abroad on holiday with us (as we used to in the past) I would definitely have some sort of paperwork and also ensure that the child had its own insurance which was valid i.e. not a tack on to its own parents which meant it was valid when travelling with them.
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| Pamski wrote: |
| I would definitely have some sort of paperwork and also ensure that the child had its own insurance which was valid i.e. not a tack on to its own parents which meant it was valid when travelling with them. |
That statement frightens me to death. Is that where people believe we really are???
Can minors hold insurance?
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allanm, a few years ago one of my friends had her son's teenage friend to stay while his parents went on holiday. He broke his leg playing football at school and the hospital wouldn't operate on him as they didn't have parental permission. Parents couldn't be contacted so the kid had to wait for the operation. Obviously this wasn't life threatening, but wasn't comfortable either. It certainly changed my view on having paperwork.
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Elizabeth B, I simply don't believe that, ** unless ** the break was very minor, or in fact the requirement / procedure was in question.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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allanm, I have no idea whether minors can hold insurance - what I had meant to say was 'not a tack on to the parents insurance which meant it was valid ONLY when travelling with them. It certainly was the case years ago that some family-type insurance policies only gave cover if the child was travelling with its own parents. When we had our 'American' grand-daughter to stay for a week and we were skiing then we had a copy of their insurance cover which applied to her travelling separately from her parents.
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| RobinS wrote: |
| ....... What they would have done if we did not have the letter I don't know! |
They might have involved Social Services to get the child put into Local Authority care and then applied to The Court of Protection for a secret hearing to have the child adopted by someone of the same ethnicity and with a block on anything ever being reported in the media.
Obviously, I have no experience of this sort of thing but I do read the Daily Mail.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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allanm, it wasn't life saving surgery so they couldn't operate without consent, and decided that it wasn't urgent enough to go to court over. The kid was in a lot of pain though 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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My 2 kids, 16 year old boy and 15 year old girl, flew out easyjet Liverpool - Grenoble at half term on their own simply with passports, did not get asked any questions by anybody. So I guess the answer is for them to pretend they are on their own.
We have annual family travel insurance and when another non-adult came with us they just added them for free.
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Blindly,I took little miss sev112 (age 10) to Geneva with SWISS for a couple of days skiing this weekend without mrs sev112's written authorisation .
In fact mrs sev112 wasn't happy about it - she had organised a girls weekend with her friends so us two decided to sneak the skiing in. So, had the Swiss passport control, the French customs and then UK Passport control asked my daughter "is your mummy happy about you going away without her?", I can just imagine her saying "no, but she's probably drinking wine in a hot tub somewhere" ( which was what she was doing in fact, but would have looked interesting in a Daily Mail article!
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You know it makes sense.
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You were lucky....
11.2.1 We do not accept Minors to travel without a person aged 16 years or older who will take responsibility for that Minor. In all circumstances the Booking must be made by someone who is 18 years or older in accordance with Article 3 (Applicability).
skitow,
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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snowyowl, the minor was accompanied by a person over 16. I did exactly the same with my sons a few years ago.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| snowyowl wrote: |
You were lucky....
11.2.1 We do not accept Minors to travel without a person aged 16 years or older who will take responsibility for that Minor. In all circumstances the Booking must be made by someone who is 18 years or older in accordance with Article 3 (Applicability).
skitow, |
Is that on an aircraft? Me and my sister travelled on our own to the states we were looked after by mum and dad until we boarded and were met by the gate by my auntie when we got off when we were 8 & 10 so obviously a while ago! It also helped my aunt to get through to the gate as her husband works for an airline. Obviously this was a long time ago so I guess the rules have changed considerably.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Hells Bells, sorry misread your post 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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My mum is an immigration officer, and she says if an under 16 is travelling on their own or with someone other than their parents they should have a letter from a parent saying that they are travelling with parental permission. I only found this out though after my daughter was queried when coming into the UK on the Eurostar on her own (even though she was 16)! I seem to remember the same child going skiing with friends , flying to Italy, when she was about 12, and I didn't write a letter then either. She also went on the Eurostar unaccompanied and without a letter when she was 15 and didn't get queried. The official Eurostar stuff says that minors should be accompanied to the station by someone over 18 who stays with them till the train leaves, and then they should be met by a named person who is over 18 at the other end. There is a form you are supposed to fill this all out on which the child should have with them. So there are all sorts of rules, but they don't often get applied, but once you know they exist, dare you take the risk not to abide by them?!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Having flown the baby grand-daughter to Geneva a couple of weeks ago, with the letter authorising me - then talking about the trip later my daughter said that thinking about it she was rather concerned that no-one had queried the fact that someone with one name was travelling with the baby with a different name and that I hadn't had to produce the paperwork! 'she might have been abducted mum' - I think we had more checks when we travelled with the Grand-dog over here a couple of years ago when our son and dil went on honeymoon. I do recall the P&O woman saying 'Mr and Mrs P.... travelling with Poppy' after she had scanned the chip.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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snowyowl, Hells Bells,
Actually what easyjet say is this :-
"At what age can children travel without an adult / parent?
Children aged 13 years or younger cannot travel unless they are accompanied by an adult who is at least 16 years old and who will take full responsibility for them. Children aged 14 to 15 can travel without an adult provided that they are not travelling with children aged 13 years or younger. Children aged 16 years and over are considered adults."
Since they both have the "normal" teenage brother - sister relationship there is a fair chance they did not go through the gates together either
Like some other posts have said, the value of any sort of printed / signed letter nowadays has got to be pretty negligible anyway.
They do stipulate that the actual booking has to be made by an over 18 in all cases but since the whole thing is done online anyway,inluding check-in, verifying that seems to me to be impossible.
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This subject all centres around the concept of parental responsibility. PR was defined and its roles and responsibilities were set out in the Children's Act 89 and revised a few times since. Most parents do not seem to be aware of the details of PR, but details are available from:www.gov.co.uk.
This link explains the situation pertaining to taking children abroad: https://www.gov.uk/permission-take-child-abroad
Proxy parental responsibility is usually delegated to teachers when children are taken on school trips, it's on that form that we all sign to allow them to go.
Elizabeth B, Medics are allowed to treat children in an emergency situation without consent of those with PR (proxy or otherwise) under the tort of best interests; including general anaesthesia but they must not go beyond "life or limb" saving treatments.
All of this is UK law and doesn't necessarily apply overseas so when you arrive at say Geneva, they are probably not that bothered that you are travelling with someone else's child. I think it is almost certainly the airline's responsibility to check who's travelling with who when we leave the UK.
I've taken the children's friends skiing with us but they were all over 16 so they are deemed old enough to determine all of this for themselves.
Hope that helps.
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