 Poster: A snowHead
|
|
shep, maybe guides/instructors are legally obliged to ensure their parties are properly equipped (whereas groups of amateurs can do as they please, at their own risk)? Just speculating, I don't know either.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
laundryman, Sounds plausible in the current H&S climate. Would be good to know the official line though...
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
laundryman, "guides/instructors are legally obliged to ensure their parties are properly equipped" I suspect they are, but it doesn't exactly sounds like a "good use of police time"... 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
under a new name, nice day out though. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
laundryman, if you want a nice day out and are of the policing persuasion, you should get a job in the Italian alps... 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
|
|
|
|
WayneC,  and an even bigger waste of police time to come, with a "5 day disciplinary hearing". More gravy trainers! I wonder if they'll manage to make it spill over into "overtime" hours?
If those Italian and French police were taking lift passes off people skiing recklessly they'd be serving a useful purpose.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Davide SIMONCELLI, Christof INNERHOFER, Stefano GROSS, Patrick THALER; all Carabinieri. Tomba was too and many other Italian skiers.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
If the gendarmes were PGHM then they were working, not on a day out.
The only Italian police that I have seen skiing were Guardia di Finanza, also doing their normal jobs.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
| Quote: |
Mostly having coffee in the mountain cafes
|
well they are no doubt checking up on the hygiene regs.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
rjs, The Polizia double as pisteurs. Which means not a lot to do if you're in Champoluc midweek outside school holidays...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I see this as victimisation of Simon and his organisation. Some years back we managed to "blag" our way into the main reststaurant of an on piste establishment but the lady maitre d seemed a bit concerned about whether we would "fit" with her idea of diners. In the event we had several courses, drank a bottle of wine and had some liqueurs and came out a couple of hundred pounds the lighter. The maitre d asked us where we were staying and when we said in a Simon Butler chalet she said quite snootily we were unusual SB guests pretty much always eat in the cafeteria on the ground floor. She did however remember our large check and were welcomed back later in the week with a kiss and whisked into a decent table and the same things happened a year later!! Presumably our face (wallet) fitted her idea of the type of diner she wanted.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
Well a French Ski School here in Tignes lost its stagieres this year as when the 'Controle' appeared at the office the clerk said it was his time to leave and left. Clearly he didn't understand the importance of this and the school lost its right to employ stagieres.
As for the police (of any colour) checking docs - if French law says you have to have them on you then so be it. Just like you have to carry your driving licence if you are driving. The UK still has some freedoms when it comes to paperwork - the rest of Europe (France, Spain and others) don't.
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Thu 20-02-14 16:55; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
| under a new name wrote: |
| rjs, The Polizia double as pisteurs. Which means not a lot to do if you're in Champoluc midweek outside school holidays... |
I know they double as pisteurs, the ones in Champoluc and Bormio were very good at getting injured trainees of mine to hospital.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
But polizia are not the same as carabinieri?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
chocksaway, my Italian-based son explained that to me. the carabinieri have v smart uniforms - I saw one shouting into a mobile phone, gesticulating madly, with a group of colleagues round a van in a square in Genoa. There were some anti-government protests going on, they looked a bit menacing. But he sounded less menacing when I got close enough to hear what he was saying. "Ma no, Mamma, senti!"
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
pam w, I have no idea. They all have guns, so there goes the first clue.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
rjs, yes, they are very, very, good when they need to be. That said, a childhood chum of my better half is "able" to do pisteur work and you never, ever, ever want to encounter him when you need medical assistance. Unless it's self prescribed out of a bottle. He's just a little special.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| summer wrote: |
| Similiar happening here currently with Swiss ski instructors taking clients into France. The Portes du Soleil is Franco- Swiss and ESF have taken umbrage at Swiss teaching on their side. Ironically they teach on Swiss side too. http://www.rts.ch/g/NZa7 one ESS teacher was stopped by gendarmes last week. |
If the French get arsy, there are plenty of work permit regulations the Swiss can call on to make their life difficult. I doubt the French instructors comply with all of those
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| eng_ch wrote: |
If the French get arsy, there are plenty of work permit regulations the Swiss can call on to make their life difficult. |
But have they not already? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26108597 As has already been suggested, may this not be what that is all about?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| Quote: |
Don't you just love the French
|
this nonsense is, it seems, being driven by certain figures within the ESF. The nonsense at Geneva airport, it seems, is being driven by Swiss taxi drivers. What is it about some of "the British" that blames "the French" for the former whereas nobody has suggested that "the Swiss" are to blame for the latter?
There have been some shocking reports of the behaviour of British university students on ski trips. There are probably some French people sufficiently xenophobic to blame "the British" but, let's hope, not all of them. The world really can do without this nationalistic tripe.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Quote: |
There have been some shocking reports of the behaviour of British university students on ski trips. There are probably some French people sufficiently xenophobic to blame "the British" but, let's hope, not all of them.
|
Considering the stories I have heard the French are actually incredibly tolerant of their behavior. If it they did it in England the daily mail would be calling for the whole university system to be shut down. It is not surprising that the ferry companies put on special ferries for them.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
| FFIRMIN wrote: |
| I see this as victimisation of Simon and his organisation. Some years back we managed to "blag" our way into the main reststaurant of an on piste establishment but the lady maitre d seemed a bit concerned about whether we would "fit" with her idea of diners. In the event we had several courses, drank a bottle of wine and had some liqueurs and came out a couple of hundred pounds the lighter. The maitre d asked us where we were staying and when we said in a Simon Butler chalet she said quite snootily we were unusual SB guests pretty much always eat in the cafeteria on the ground floor. She did however remember our large check and were welcomed back later in the week with a kiss and whisked into a decent table and the same things happened a year later!! Presumably our face (wallet) fitted her idea of the type of diner she wanted. |
FFIRMIN - you are obviously satisfied customers of Simon Butler, so I completely understand your wish to support and defend him… but actually I think your post does him a disservice in suggesting that people in general in Megeve don't like him (I'm sure you didn't mean to suggest that but I'm suggesting your post might be interpreted that way).
On reading your post I remembered something one of Simon's friends said (which was great as it meant knowing keywords for a quick search rather than trawling through a 50 page thread) that I - being based in the same ski area as Simon - found somewhat heartening.
| rsvpann wrote: |
Simon Butler has a huge amount of support from the town of Megeve, his local suppliers and business contacts and even the local gendarmerie |
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
miranda, that is true and also backs up pam w's point that this isn't about "the French" but about certain French interests that are acting against certain other French interests (and quite possibly French law) as well as certain British interests.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
There's a pretty wide gulf between some drunk students and a state-backed protectionist scam, I'd say.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
finestgreen, if you'd been following the story you would know that, as laundryman suggests, it's simplistic to suggest this is a "state backed protectionist scam". And at least British instructors have made major inroads into the French market; they've not done so elsewhere in Europe (except Andorra) AFAIK. And the ESF has more competition from other French ski schools than do the major schools in some other countries, too. That's no doubt why their prices are so low; competition is a great thing.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
^
The obvious reason for British ski instructors setting up shop in France is that it is where most British skiers want to go. Of itself, that doesn't indicate other countries are harder in which to operate.
Xenophobia is obnoxious but the historical French attachment to dirigisme is an fact.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
I could be convinced it's not primarily a scam on behalf of specifically French interests, but the intent is clearly to artificially drive up prices by restricting supply.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| finestgreen wrote: |
| I could be convinced it's not primarily a scam on behalf of specifically French interests, but the intent is clearly to artificially drive up prices by restricting supply. |
Not sure how this comment can be justified if it is aimed at the French. The ESF are normally the cheapest ski school in resort. The British ski schools are normally the most expensive.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
They're expensive because the supply is limited - remove the eurotest nonsense and there'd be more instructors (wouldn't there?), more competition would mean lower prices
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
No Eurotest in Switzerland and the prices aren't cheaper.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
^
According to the Economist's "Big Mac Index", the Swiss Franc is over-valued around 50% compared to the Euro. So, more than the Eurotest is involved.
I also don't agree that ESF being lower cost than British providers means they would have no interest in reducing supply. On the contrary, reduced supply would allow them to raise prices.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
The law as it stands in France is that you need either the Test Technique or Eurotest to teach. The Swiss, and Simon Butler's instructors don't have this AFAIKS. EU rules allow countries to impose these sort of tests in addition to whatever recognized home country qualifications you need. The issues with Mr Butler and the Swiss are not new however there is something of a crackdown on illegal working at the moment in France, especially ex-pat contracts with changes to legislation in France that might make the TO Rep situation difficult.
SB contends that the neither of these tests are necessary to teach but that is not how the law currently stands.
So I guess the Gendarmerie are going to keep stopping instructors and cautioning or arresting those without the appropriate documentation. They questioned 100 French guides last April to check their documentation and insurance was in order.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| pam w wrote: |
| finestgreen, if you'd been following the story you would know that, as laundryman suggests, it's simplistic to suggest this is a "state backed protectionist scam". |
That was not exactly my point, which is more that there are French interests that do not agree with the harassment of Simon Butler (and, I could also say, there are certain British interests that do). However, the French state is directly involved in the guise of le Ministère des Sports et de la Jeunesse. I understand there is a similar crackdown on foreign mountain bike instructors. Both seemed to have started not long after the election of M. Hollande, though whether that is a factor I could only speculate without digging further.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| laundryman wrote: |
| Both seemed to have started not long after the election of M. Hollande, though whether that is a factor I could only speculate without digging further. |
The mountain bike guide "crackdown" dates back nearly a decade. The French require you to be an IML with a mountain bike option to lead mountain bike groups around the mountain.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| laundryman wrote: |
| miranda, that is true and also backs up pam w's point that this isn't about "the French" but about certain French interests that are acting against certain other French interests (and quite possibly French law) as well as certain British interests. |
Not to mention that BASI's collusion in the status quo works very much in favour of other british interests....
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| davidof wrote: |
The law as it stands in France is that you need either the Test Technique or Eurotest to teach.
...
SB contends that the neither of these tests are necessary to teach but that is not how the law currently stands. |
Chapter and verse? Are you aware that the Rhône-Alpes prefecture removed reference to the Eurotest from the English language declaration form late last year?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
Such a pity that they tend to spoil the good bits of France. 
