 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi, I'm living in Austria this year and am looking at using the opportunity to do the Anwärter qualification. I've looked into it quite a lot and think I know what to expect from the course content. The only thing I'm left wondering is how easy is it to get a job with an Austrian ski school with the qualification? Do they usually expect you to have a higher qualification? Are native English speakers in demand? Hopefully some of you out there have experience of the Anwärter and can help me out! Thanks all.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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That´s the main qualification for getting a job at an Austrian ski school. Most ski schools will probably be looking for more instructors for the halfterm holidays period, but you might be too late to find a position for the whole season. If you both ski and snowboard, go for the Dual Anwärter. Then you´re more likely to get work as you are more flexible.
As for english speaking instructors. Just look for a resort that attracts lots of english travel agencies. Obviously if you also speak German or another language you´re going to be of more interest to a ski school.
Resorts to look at: Obergurgl, Kühtai, St Anton, Söll, Mayrhofen, Lech to name just a few.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Innsbruckclaret, welcome to Snowheads.
In Salzburgerland, you cannot get on to the Anwärter course unless you are sponsored by an Austrian ski school, who guarantee to employ you should you pass. I assume that similar conditions apply in the Innsbruck area.
You do realise that the course is conducted in German and that you will be expected to do the teaching elements in German. When teaching in ski schools, group classes are conducted in a mixture of German, English and Danish/Dutch/Russian/Polish/Czech etc. according to the mix of clients.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I'm pretty sure in Tirol anyone can take the course. You just sign up on the website and pay the fee as far as I can see.
I study German at degree level so hopefully wouldn't have any problems there.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I would recommend the Ski Instructor Academy in Kaprun as you are guaranteed a job at the end of the course . Lots of Austrian State Qualified Instructors teach on the course and are also hiring on behalf of Austrian ski schools . http://www.siaaustria.com/
If you speak German to degree level you should be fine with the German. If you do the November course you can work for the whole of the following season.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Innsbruckclaret, you're correct about just signing up in tirol, as far as im aware.
Your German should be no problem; I passed it several years ago with very basic German.
It's normally quite easy to find a job with it, though you are a bit late. Are you in Innsbruck now? I have several friends working in ski schools here (Nordkette and Schlick2000) who may be able to point you in the right direction, and I understand that the school at the stubaier glacier are still looking for instructors.
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clarky999, I'm looking at doing the SIA course for november 2014. How did you find it? Did you speak ANY German before you went and did you just do the Anwarter or Landes 1 as well? Would you recommend it or do you think i should do BASI instead? Sorry for all the questions!
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Hannah_Stan, I'd done GCSE German a couple of years previously, but had forgotten it all. I could speak über basics, but wasn't even approaching conversational. It would be MUCH easier if you can speak and write some German, but you definitely don't need to be fluent. In our exam we were allowed to bring in dictionaries (some may have been... er... annotated...) and the trainers encouraged the german speakers in our group to help translate the questions on the written test, which is the hardest part of the assessment. You get given a German-English phrasebook with all the technical terms you'll need for the practical teaching assessment (which is pretty informal).
I just did the Anwärter. Contemplated Landes, but as I had/have little intention of a long-term career in instructing it doesn't seem worth the expense. It would mainly just be an ego thing for me.
As for Anwärter vs BASI... It depends what you want to do with it? If you just plan on a season or two and then maybe some peak week work in holidays etc, then the Anwärter will make it much easier to find work - you can pretty much guarantee a ski school somewhere in Austria will take you for whatever weeks you have free. If you want to make a long term career of it, then unless you intend to get very good/fluent in German (necessary for Landes and the higher levels) BASI would be easier. However if your German is good enough the Austrian system seems to be quite a bit cheaper.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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clarky999, Thanks so much! right now i can count to 10 and thats it. I'm going to study Spanish at Uni so i hope i don't get confused! So do you need to be able to speak the language quite well to take Landes 1 and 2? Also, did you do your course with SIA?
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Hannah_Stan, as I understand it yes, you should be able to hold relatively in depth technical conversations in German as you progress up the levels. The skiing demands are also a pretty big step up from the Anwärter; you need to be competent at high performance piste, moguls, powder and 'everything in between' skiing.
No, I did a four week gap year type course with Peak Leaders in St Anton (which was great!), finishing the Anwärter just before Christmas.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Just picking up on this old thread.
Daughter has BASI 1 and been teaching in UK for past 5 yes on dry slope. She is currently in Whistler working with ski school there teaching 6-12 year olds, and has also done an adaptive course and teaches some adaptive skiers too. Just about to (hopefully) pass her CSIA level 2 tomorrow.
Looking online it looks like the Canadian level 2 means she could teach in Andorra and Switzerland. Does anyone know what would be required to teach in Austria and how easy it would be to get a job and accomodation in Austria as a UK citizen?
Although she has a 2 year visa for Canada I think the issue getting rooms in Whistler is proving an issue, as is the cost of supermarket food.
Thanks in advance
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| quinton wrote: |
Innsbruckclaret,
In Salzburgerland, you cannot get on to the Anwärter course unless you are sponsored by an Austrian ski school, who guarantee to employ you should you pass. I assume that similar conditions apply in the Innsbruck area.
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Not true, as pointed out in multiple replies.
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@boabski, Just ask the Guru mate or get her to talk to my daughter again as she's coming to Austria next year. 
Unless you are working through the folks at SIA (as mentioned above), the process can be quite laborious.
The CSIA Level II is recognised worldwide but individual ski schools and the Austrian States have different rules too. Most ski instructors are "employed" by local ski schools even if they work for UK Tour Companies. The Ski School must first advertise the job locally, then the job must be advertised on the Austrian National Job page, which effectively means it is open to all EU Citizens. Only when they are not filled can the ski school then recruit a Third Country National (TCN). This involves them "sponsoring" the TCN through their D-Visa process. For Austria a UK citizen needs to follow the rules and apply in the UK. You can't do it from Canada. Information on D-Visa process can be found on the Austrian Government website.
In practice it is (as ever) about who you know. Here in Ski Amade there are at least a dozen Brit kids working with the ski schools, almost all of whom had pre-Brexit experience or have some connection with the local ski schools. It helps if you can Snowboard as well as we don't have enough of them and German Language skills will score you a few more points too. So its not impossible but it might be far easier to find a job in Andorra or even Japan for a season.
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You know it makes sense.
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It is very difficult for a brit with no history of working in Austria to get a work permit. I have a number of colleagues (anwarter) who have taught here for years who have been unable to get permits as they are very restricted in numbers. I know others who work locally who have permits but they have 15 years working here (anwarter) and 12 years (Landeslehrer) behind them. Our ski school was allegedly told one colleague who has anwarter and 10 years experience was just outside the qualifying criteria for this season. All of the years I have mentioned are ignoring the corona year when tourism wasn't allowed.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| boabski wrote: |
Looking online it looks like the Canadian level 2 means she could teach in Andorra and Switzerland. |
Just to clarify - there is no actual formal minimum qualification to work for a ski school in Switzerland; legally speaking there's only one recognised qualification, which is state-regulated in the same way as those for other professions like plumbers or electricians, or even doctors and lawyers, so you either hold the Swiss 'Brevet' (licence to practice) or you don't.
So it's not technically/legally necessary to have any qualification and is something of a mistake to suggest, as many people and websites do, that one or other of the CSIA/BASI/NVSIA intermediate levels is in any way 'recognised' here. Yes, they will be understood as an indicator of experience, but not much more than that.
Oh, AIUI the Kiwi and Canuck level 2s don't require any actual experience to get the qualification, so arguable BASI would be regarded as 'better' in the first instance.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
In Salzburgerland, you cannot get on to the Anwärter course unless you are sponsored by an Austrian ski school, who guarantee to employ you should you pass. I assume that similar conditions apply in the Innsbruck area.
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That was the situation that I understood existed in Salzburgerland in 2014 when this thread started - and I should have said that it only applied to non-Austrians. I wrongly assumed that it was also the case in Innsbruck/Tirol - and plenty of others pointed out at the time that I was mistaken.
FWIW - I know someone (with a EU passport) who enquired last Autumn at one of the largest ski schools in Saalbach, and was told that this condition still existed - which if I am reading the current Salzburgerland ski instructors' website (sbssv.at) is actually incorrect. As far as I can see, anyone can sign up for the courses - but those not sponsored by a ski school pay a higher fee, and from memory, this has been the case for several years.
As for someone with a British passport finding work in Austria, regardless of which license they have, this seems to be next to impossible unless they have been working for the ski schools for many years before Brexit. There are a few older British instructors still able to work seasons in Saalbach based on their previous years there, but no "newcomers".
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| quinton wrote: |
| As for someone with a British passport finding work in Austria, regardless of which license they have, this seems to be next to impossible unless they have been working for the ski schools for many years before Brexit. There are a few older British instructors still able to work seasons in Saalbach based on their previous years there, but no "newcomers". |
It sounds like the work/visa/application process is very similar to that in CH, but it's important to realise that here at least, and I strongly suspect its the same in Austria, it's not actually the nationality, i.e. what passport you hold, that is the restriction, but where you have rights of residency that is not tied to any specific employment.
Doesn't make any difference to what you describe, but at least some of the Brit instructors may have been granted a right of residency and work there, just like we have in CH, having worked here since 2000, while others may not have that right but are able to continue working based on their pre-brexit requirements.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
It sounds like the work/visa/application process is very similar to that in CH, but it's important to realise that here at least, and I strongly suspect its the same in Austria, it's not actually the nationality, i.e. what passport you hold, that is the restriction, but where you have rights of residency that is not tied to any specific employment.
Doesn't make any difference to what you describe, but at least some of the Brit instructors may have been granted a right of residency and work there, just like we have in CH, having worked here since 2000, while others may not have that right but are able to continue working based on their pre-brexit requirements.
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I don't think that what you describe for CH is quite the same as the requirements for Austria. There are a number of British instructors who live and work in Austria (i.e. they have post-Brexit EU "Article 50" Residency) having moved permanently to AUT before the deadline date. But the key word is "permanent" - i.e. they have moved there and their right to work is based on permanent residency and not on how many years they have worked in AUT. There are a number of others who have employers who have been able to obtain permission to employ them for a season (which then allows the instructor to apply for a working Visa) based on their previous years of employment and experience. Note that both the employer and the employee have to obtain official permission - the employers' permission being the key to the employee being able to apply for a Visa. It is this that is the stumbling block for "new" recruits - the employers cannot offer a compelling case for employing them in preference to the 450,000,000 EU citizens, and thus, the "new" employees cannot apply for a Visa.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@quinton, Yes, that's exactly what I was saying, pretty much exactly the same as CH. Not quite sure what wasn't clear about my post, but clearly it wasn't, err, clear.
The 'right' to long-term (I didn't use 'permanent' as there are exceptional circumstances in which it can be revoked) residency may be granted after a certain number of years of temporary, i.e. annually renewable, residency based on having a job here. In CH this is 5 years for EU and some other countries, now ten years for post-brexit brits and most other nationalities, after which your temporary B permit can be converted to an 'established residency' C permit, which also give the right to live, work and buy property anywhere within the country.
And yes, the process for employing non-EU, non-resident people is pretty much the same as you describe, complete with the need to first prove that a job can't be filled by Swiss or EU citizens. It's not impossible, but very long-winded and difficult for just an ordinary ski instructor, for example.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@@Chaletbeauroc,
The difference is in the residency rights. Prior to Brexit, all UK citizens (with a few exceptions) could freely move to the EU and seek employment, buy property etc. As long as they did this before the Brexit deadline day, they could apply for "Art. 50*" residency as a right. There was no requirement for any previous years of residency, employment or language skills - in theory, someone could apply at the last moment having never lived or worked in AUT as long as they had secured a job, accommodation and healthcare insurance (the latter which would usually come with the job) by the date of application and before the deadline. The "Art. 50" Residence Permit is valid for 5 years, after which it is exchanged for a "Permanent" Residence permit. So it is similar to CH, but not quite the same (because it was a right that UK citizens had but which ran out on deadline day).
* Article 50 of the Withdrawal Agreement is the Article that guarantees UK citizens already resident in the EU a continuation of their pre-Brexit rights (employment, property ownership etc.) - but only in the EU country where they were officially resident on the deadline day.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@RedandWhiteFlachau, thanks again. Great info
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| Chaletbeauroc wrote: |
| legally speaking there's only one recognised qualification, which is state-regulated in the same way as those for other professions like plumbers or electricians, or even doctors and lawyers, so you either hold the Swiss 'Brevet' (licence to practice) or you don't. |
legally speaking all the EU high level qualifications are recognized too. As you mentioned elsewhere BASIs can do some extra exams to get equivalence in CH, FWIW
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| davidof wrote: |
| Chaletbeauroc wrote: |
| legally speaking there's only one recognised qualification, which is state-regulated in the same way as those for other professions like plumbers or electricians, or even doctors and lawyers, so you either hold the Swiss 'Brevet' (licence to practice) or you don't. |
legally speaking all the EU high level qualifications are recognized too. As you mentioned elsewhere BASIs can do some extra exams to get equivalence in CH, FWIW |
I thought that technically they are not recognised in their own right, but can be used to obtain the Brevet without any further tests. Similar to getting the Carte Pro in French for other nation's qualification holders.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@quinton, Yes, and all this is exactly the same in CH, them having adopted the EU's FoM charter some 15 years or more ago.
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@boabski, just in case Andorra is on the radar in the future... my stepson followed a similar route. BASI L1 in the UK and then CSIA L2 in Andorra. He's currently instructing in Andorra. They do accept CSIA L2 but in Andorra it's only recognised in line with the Andorran L1. It still means they can instruct all over the mountain it's just they get a slightly lower rate of pay €17 per hour.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Thanks everyone. Looks like Austria is a pipe dream then
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@boabski, Probably. Just noticed that SIA have added this caveat to their course page.
"Job Guarantee: You must have the legal right to work in Austria, have an EU issued passport or have a valid work visa / working holiday visa to be eligible for the SIA Job Guarantee".
In otherwords, no sponsor, no job guarantee.
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| RedandWhiteFlachau wrote: |
@boabski, Just ask the Guru mate or get her to talk to my daughter again as she's coming to Austria next year.
It helps if you can Snowboard as well as we don't have enough of them and German Language skills will score you a few more points too. So its not impossible but it might be far easier to find a job in Andorra or even Japan for a season. |
really? i thought the demand for snb is not soooo high...at least so said a couple of schools a few years ago....
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@boabski, there's quite a demand for English speaking instructors in Andorra during the peak weeks. Jnr is out here just for Feb and March. The ski school still thought it was worthwhile to go through the seasonal residency process for two months. Most demand will be in Arinsal, Soldeu and Pas de la Casa. I know in Arinsal they've not had any availability for English speaking ski school places for a number of weeks.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Going back to Austria - if you do the Anwärter qualification by direct application to the local region (Land) you WiLL be expected to speak and write fluent German. If you go down the „regional application route“ this knowledge of German cannot be fudged whatever you may read on the Internet. English is one module, not a general option. For example, when I did the Anwärter in the Vorarlberg, All teaching, lessons given AND all ten theory exams were in German…I live in Austria and am effectively bilingual. (By way of personal background, I learnt German through a 3 year stay in Hamburg in the late 1970s/early 1980s and studied German History at University: I also worked for German firms at various points in my career and also have excellent conversational German.) EVEN SO, I found myself asking for clarification on technical points during the course fairly frequently - which was invariably proffered in even more detailed technical German! A fluent (originally American but based in the Vorarlberg) German speaking friend of mine (already a Snowboard Anwärter) did the ski course this month and he found the same so I don‘t think things have changed much. Indeed the only English he got to use was when he was asked to switch half way through both the hour long compulsory demonstration lessons from German to English! The ONLY relatively easy way round this is to book on the Anwärter courses run for foreigners in Austria through Snow Sports Academy. As I understand it there is then a higher English content and the German is far less demanding. But, I believe, you then need to work for a probationary period before getting the licence (which you get directly at the end of the “regional application” route) + you may find it harder to get into the most sought after ski schools which - unofficially - apparently favour the “regional application qualified“ candidates. Behind the scenes, Austria is an elitist country in many ways - particularly when it comes to instruction in mountain walking and skiing…!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Bergsteiger278, BS, passing the Anwarter does NOT require speaking and writing fluent German. You can take the Anwarter and Landeslehrer in English. It's not a good idea if you want to work in Austria, and isn't even very sensible, as the german required for both sets of exams is learnable.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Maybe it has changed then or it varies greatly between regions/entry through SSA. I can only speak as I found it. (& as my German speaking American friend experienced it last month in the Vorarlberg).
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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...as I pointed out - both of us did the Anwärter here in the Vorarlberg by application to the regional "Vorarlberger Skilehrerverband" i.e. alongside the locals. As I also explained in my post, most non German speaking "foreigners" do the course through SSA and not through direct application to the VSL (or its equivalent in Tirol and elsewhere). As I stated, I believe then that far less German is required (maybe not at all?) - but I cannot speak to the SSA run course from experience. End of.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I know many English nationals who have recently completed an Anwärter course in Salzburgerland under the auspices of Snowsports Academy. Their pre-course blurb suggested a requirement for a reasonable level of German for receiving skiing tuition, undertaking the written theory test and for delivering the assessed teach, but in practice a massive amount of assistance was provided to candidates in order to meet the German language requirements, to the extent that these requirements were not an obstacle to any of them.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I did the Anwarter 30 years ago in the Tyrol, alongside locals. The syllabus was much more extensive, as we needed to do stems. There are only so many questions that can be asked, and only so many answers that can be given. As such, it is possible to rote learn the answers. I tried passing the LS1 the year before covid hit. Despite speaking and writing no German, and having the entire course entirely in German, I passed the written exam. I failed the skiing, as I expected, but only by 2%, so I was quite pleased with the result. Certainly further progression requires increasing facility in German. I can only imagine what the Alpinkurs is like!
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FAQ
